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Hello and Thank You

Kernow Debra said:
Absolutely fantastic @Paul_
Well done and keep it going.
Would so love to be a fly on the wall when you see your DN
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I won't lie, there's a temptation to walk in and confront her over the comments she made on my first appointment, all guns blazing (for the purposes of forum rules, I mean metaphorically and verbally, not literally). However, I'm going to fight my instinct here. This forum has shown me how challenging it is to receive medical care as a diabetic, so there's something bigger at stake here for me than my own sense of feeling wronged. I'm hoping to get the point across that diabetic patients aren't just a number and that one treatment approach doesn't fit all. That by writing us off as having a "self-inflicted" condition, suggesting that "once a fatty, always a fatty", or even just placing the thought that someone can't make improvements regardless of what their health status might be at diagnosis, it risks condemning diabetics to accepting their lot and writing off any chance of improving it.

I don't know how I'm going to go about it, I've got a day and a bit to mull it over, but I'd like to try and give just one below average DN reason to pause and think about their approach at the very least. I'll likely fail, but I feel I have to try after seeing what so many people here have been through.
 
Paul_ said:
Your cat is very wise indeed!

Thanks, your posts and advice definitely helped me push past that "what do I have with the meat and veg?" conundrum as a low carb newbie, when chips, potato in general, rice and bread are removed from the plate. The answer was stunningly simple - more meat and veg! :)
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Honestly, Paul, your whole approach to overcoming your diagnosis is little short of amazing.

Was it case of going cold turkey on all the usual carby suspects or did you just reduce some of them to a point where you could tolerate them?
 
Dancing Badger said:
Honestly, Paul, your whole approach to overcoming your diagnosis is little short of amazing.

Was it case of going cold turkey on all the usual carby suspects or did you just reduce some of them to a point where you could tolerate them?
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It's difficult to convey the challenges, the train of thought, and the lucky kneejerk decisions/changes in shorter forum posts. So, if you'll indulge me, I'll expose the madness in a longer post. :)

If I'm honest, 3 main things forced me into action:

1) My diagnosis scared my kids (9 and 6 years old). They don't know the detail of diabetes obviously, but they've learnt the word at school and know it's bad. I wanted to alleviate that fear, my own panic and disarray took a back seat.

2) My symptoms included wonky vision, unquenchable thirst and needing the toilet every 45 mins tops - day and night. I appreciate these aren't the worst symptoms, but I couldn't take anymore sleep deprivation and I was desperate to make these symptoms subside.

3) An upbringing with an ex-army father. As the saying goes, "you can take the man out of the army, but you can't remove the army from the man". I was brought up to face problems head on, put emotion to one side and ignore it, confront fears, and try to do it with a sense of humour where possible, even in the darkest of times. In the army you focus on the objective and relentlessly chase after it - that was drummed into me. It helped a lot, despite my resentment of that style in my teens! :)

As for approach following diagnosis, I went from Eat Well, to low carb, to lower carb, to keto in the space of two weeks. It was all based off the research I was doing and seeing BG results slowly improve with each shift, but it was chaotic. When @ianf0ster warns of reducing BG levels too quickly, as I see him posting, people better believe him. It sent my eyesight wonkier again. My digestive system was all over the place. I went through the keto "flu". When starting keto, I literally ate greek yogurt for breakfast, omelette for lunch, and meat with brocolli for dinner for a week, every day, while I figured out a broader range of meals. I was absolutely committed, losing weight, and seeing improved BG numbers day on day with keto. It was worth the consequences to me at the time, all the while one of my father's favourite quotes running continuously through my mind - the pain of discipline is less than the pain of regret. I focused on data and numbers, ignoring the emotional side of diagnosis completely.

After a week of keto, so roughly 3 weeks since diagnosis, my BG levels dropped under 10 mmol. The thirst could finally be quenched. I wasn't going to the toilet as much. Despite the side effects, the relief was indescribable. By the end of the second week of keto (4 weeks on from diagnosis), the haze of keto flu started to lift. I joined this forum, getting some amazing and much needed support. It's why I'm so grateful to everyone here, not only did their advice help me so much, but their support came through immediately when I joined. I needed it, without even realising it.

Would I recommend my approach? Not in the way I went about it. I'm as careful as I can be to be gentle in my encouragement of people on their low carb path, if that's what they desire to do. Many of the challenges and side effects I went through can be avoided with a gentler approach. I have no regrets, but through my errors and chaotic approach, I've come to appreciate a better way of getting the same effects, just without as much of the burden along the way.
 
Paul_ said:
It's difficult to convey the challenges, the train of thought, and the lucky kneejerk decisions/changes in shorter forum posts. So, if you'll indulge me, I'll expose the madness in a longer post. :)

If I'm honest, 3 main things forced me into action:

1) My diagnosis scared my kids (9 and 6 years old). They don't know the detail of diabetes obviously, but they've learnt the word at school and know it's bad. I wanted to alleviate that fear, my own panic and disarray took a back seat.

2) My symptoms included wonky vision, unquenchable thirst and needing the toilet every 45 mins tops - day and night. I appreciate these aren't the worst symptoms, but I couldn't take anymore sleep deprivation and I was desperate to make these symptoms subside.

3) An upbringing with an ex-army father. As the saying goes, "you can take the man out of the army, but you can't remove the army from the man". I was brought up to face problems head on, put emotion to one side and ignore it, confront fears, and try to do it with a sense of humour where possible, even in the darkest of times. In the army you focus on the objective and relentlessly chase after it - that was drummed into me. It helped a lot, despite my resentment of that style in my teens! :)

As for approach following diagnosis, I went from Eat Well, to low carb, to lower carb, to keto in the space of two weeks. It was all based off the research I was doing and seeing BG results slowly improve with each shift, but it was chaotic. When @ianf0ster warns of reducing BG levels too quickly, as I see him posting, people better believe him. It sent my eyesight wonkier again. My digestive system was all over the place. I went through the keto "flu". When starting keto, I literally ate greek yogurt for breakfast, omelette for lunch, and meat with brocolli for dinner for a week, every day, while I figured out a broader range of meals. I was absolutely committed, losing weight, and seeing improved BG numbers day on day with keto. It was worth the consequences to me at the time, all the while one of my father's favourite quotes running continuously through my mind - the pain of discipline is less than the pain of regret. I focused on data and numbers, ignoring the emotional side of diagnosis completely.

After a week of keto, so roughly 3 weeks since diagnosis, my BG levels dropped under 10 mmol. The thirst could finally be quenched. I wasn't going to the toilet as much. Despite the side effects, the relief was indescribable. By the end of the second week of keto (4 weeks on from diagnosis), the haze of keto flu started to lift. I joined this forum, getting some amazing and much needed support. It's why I'm so grateful to everyone here, not only did their advice help me so much, but their support came through immediately when I joined. I needed it, without even realising it.

Would I recommend my approach? Not in the way I went about it. I'm as careful as I can be to be gentle in my encouragement of people on their low carb path, if that's what they desire to do. Many of the challenges and side effects I went through can be avoided with a gentler approach. I have no regrets, but through my errors and chaotic approach, I've come to appreciate a better way of getting the same effects, just without as much of the burden along the way.
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I can totally empathise with your upbringing, Paul. My father was a RM Commando and one of his mantras was "Think!" - something that's served me well over the years.

Coming back to the main subject, are you still adopting a rigid approach or are you experimenting with food to see what your BG will tolerate?
 
Dancing Badger said:
I can totally empathise with your upbringing, Paul. My father was a RM Commando and one of his mantras was "Think!" - something that's served me well over the years.

Coming back to the main subject, are you still adopting a rigid approach or are you experimenting with food to see what your BG will tolerate?
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It's a good question, with no straightforward answer for me. I talked about the flaws in my approach previously there, however one of the benefits of coming from Eat Well down through low carb and on to keto was I found my approximate tolerable carb limit range per day.

Generally, I can tolerate 30-40g of carbs per day, split over 2-3 meals, and keep my BG readings in non-diabetic ranges before and 2hrs after a meal. The make-up of those meals determines whether I need to be closer to 30g or 40g. Higher fat, higher fibre, or dense protein slows digestion, so it usually allows me to push the 40g end of the range (worth mentioning this can also result in an extended period of raised BG, but I don't have a CGM, so I don't worry too much as such).

I expect some will wonder, if I can eat 30-40g a day, why do I eat in keto ranges of 15-25g a day? Simply put, I enjoy doing so. It builds in some safety for portion measuring mishaps or packaging errors with nutrition info, but I've found a lot of meals I really love. I feel better in myself when carbs are low and I'm in ketosis. May not be for everyone, but it reduces my appetite, reduces my cravings, and this supports my weight loss goals in turn.

Does that mean I'll never go above 15-25g? No, for example I will share a small slice of cake with my son on his birthday soon, it's important to him. However, I'll adjust my day around it. In my view, life is there for living, and part of that is having occasions where my food tracking app, weight loss, or BG levels aren't the be all and end all. That's maybe 1% of my food time though in a year where I'll make compromises, the other 99% I'm currently very focused on my goals, which keto supports for me personally.

Maybe my approach will change, maybe it won't, but at this stage I know my limits pretty well and it's helping me work towards my goals. Any experimentation I do will be within those limits for 99% of the time.
 
My brother who's also low carb sent me a link to a YouTube vid, and boy do I wish he hadn't. It was on The Royal College of Physicians channel, titled 'Obesity - England's Most Pressing Health Challenge', presented by 'RCP special adviser on obesity Professor Rachel Batterham OBE'. I thought the ignorance was astounding. Not once did I hear the word 'Carbs', not once! Lots of patronisation against obese people, "it's not your fault" - too right it's not , it's the fault of those that have their ears closed while all the while giving patronising lip service for fear of upsetting their research funders 'Big Food'.

No wonder people can't take diet advice from NHS as gospel - NHS should look at the stats. On YouTube alone in the UK:

The Royal College of Physicians channel = 7k subscribers

The Public Health Collaboration channel = 28.5k subscribers

None so blind as those that don't want to see. Apologies for my rant....

Edited to say - you're an inspiration Paul!
 
@Paul_ I feel that your current approach is quite sensible though a little stricter than mine, since I range from 20gms of carbs per day to 40gms with the vast majority of days being 30-40 gms.
This Type 2 diabetes thing is very individual and so the details of what works for one person may well not work for another. I'm confident that (for those who can manage to do it) a lowering of carbs eaten will benefit all uncontrolled Type 2's and even those who are currently controlled by medication rather than diet.
 
JenniferM55 said:
My brother who's also low carb sent me a link to a YouTube vid, and boy do I wish he hadn't. It was on The Royal College of Physicians channel, titled 'Obesity - England's Most Pressing Health Challenge', presented by 'RCP special adviser on obesity Professor Rachel Batterham OBE'. I thought the ignorance was astounding. Not once did I hear the word 'Carbs', not once! Lots of patronisation against obese people, "it's not your fault" - too right it's not , it's the fault of those that have their ears closed while all the while giving patronising lip service for fear of upsetting their research funders 'Big Food'.

No wonder people can't take diet advice from NHS as gospel - NHS should look at the stats. On YouTube alone in the UK:

The Royal College of Physicians channel = 7k subscribers

The Public Health Collaboration channel = 28.5k subscribers

None so blind as those that don't want to see. Apologies for my rant....

Edited to say - you're an inspiration Paul!
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To be fair, many of those PHC channel subscribers may be international, since it is widely active in the low carb community on Twitter.
However - 28.5K is a good number - just not big enough (yet) to make a breakthrough.
 
JenniferM55 said:
My brother who's also low carb sent me a link to a YouTube vid, and boy do I wish he hadn't. It was on The Royal College of Physicians channel, titled 'Obesity - England's Most Pressing Health Challenge', presented by 'RCP special adviser on obesity Professor Rachel Batterham OBE'. I thought the ignorance was astounding. Not once did I hear the word 'Carbs', not once! Lots of patronisation against obese people, "it's not your fault" - too right it's not , it's the fault of those that have their ears closed while all the while giving patronising lip service for fear of upsetting their research funders 'Big Food'.

No wonder people can't take diet advice from NHS as gospel - NHS should look at the stats. On YouTube alone in the UK:

The Royal College of Physicians channel = 7k subscribers

The Public Health Collaboration channel = 28.5k subscribers

None so blind as those that don't want to see. Apologies for my rant....

Edited to say - you're an inspiration Paul!
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Firstly, thank you, but I've just stolen other people's ideas here and put them into practice - I don't have any unique ideas of my own! :) I'm really not one for cheesy sentiment, but I mean the following - it's those who take the time to help newbies like me that are the inspiration. In time, hopefully I can pay back in this way, but for now I can only be grateful I've had all this great advice without any expectation of anything in return.

ianf0ster said:
@Paul_ I feel that your current approach is quite sensible though a little stricter than mine, since I range from 20gms of carbs per day to 40gms with the vast majority of days being 30-40 gms.
This Type 2 diabetes thing is very individual and so the details of what works for one person may well not work for another. I'm confident that (for those who can manage to do it) a lowering of carbs eaten will benefit all uncontrolled Type 2's and even those who are currently controlled by medication rather than diet.
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I agree with everything you've said. I am possibly being too strict, however it's not without enjoying what I'm doing. I don't fully trust myself yet, as odd as that may sound. Every previous diet I've done has failed and I'm very conscious this one could too, but with serious consequences this time. I got so good at eating I reached 25st 11lb at my peak (a few months before diagnosis). I'm slowly learning to trust myself again, but I'd go as far as to say carbs were an addiction of mine in the past. It's been so enjoyable to be free of that, to see and feel the benefits of losing weight, and to have this one little diet that tackles multiple health issues all in one hit.

One day I'll hopefully trust myself enough with food that I can be less strict, what I'm doing is definitely helping me to build a far healthier relationship with food, but I'm just not quite there yet.
 
I stay within keto because it suits my temperament. IMO we have to be comfortable with our own personalities for best results. So not only is it a range of physical differences, but also a case of how our individual minds work. We need everything on-side to make the trip easy.

Same with managing medical staff. Like a couple of you, I have a parental military background and spent most of my working life in a discipline that upheld those attitudes of getting on with it plus accessing information from everywhere, then putting it through the nonsense filter. So I can listen and be diplomatic while channelling emotions from irritation to pure rage, but in a way that gives me the power to do what I **** well know is right. Because we never know when our health will bowl us an unexpected hazard, and we need these people on-side.
 
@Paul_ you have been a huge inspiration on my current LC journey, supportive, caring, and humerous.
I did this years ago, fell off the wagon due to life circumstances, buried my head in the sand, but I am back and with you and so many others here as travelling companions.

Congratulations on your simply amazing results,and thank you for paying it back.
 
aylalake said:
@Paul_ you have been a huge inspiration on my current LC journey, supportive, caring, and humerous.
I did this years ago, fell off the wagon due to life circumstances, buried my head in the sand, but I am back and with you and so many others here as travelling companions.

Congratulations on your simply amazing results,and thank you for paying it back.
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Thank you for your very kind words. I may not have fallen off the wagon (yet) since diagnosis, but I know how easy it is to do so. For years I gave myself every reason and excuse to keep my head firmly in the sand with my health. It's easy to do in the good times, but worse, it's even easier when life happens and circumstances divert your focus elsewhere. I haven't managed to fully forgive myself for doing so as yet, it's the one piece of great advice around here that my brain sees the logic of but refuses to take in!

We all slip up, we all have a lot thrown at us in life and it's often difficult to juggle everything. The important thing is to never lose hope though. As I've said elsewhere on this thread, I've learnt to never give up. Never listen to people who talk you down. It's never too late to make a start, or restart, efforts to improve where you are and with the help of this phenomenal forum and it's members, anything is possible. Keep at it @aylalake, you can do it!
 
See, @Paul_ , that’s exactly the sort of response at which you are so good!
Thank you for your encouragement.
 
Had follow up blood tests yesterday, almost 10 months on from diagnosis, and got the results this afternoon. Hope admins don't mind me reviving this older thread, just wanted to make an update record of progress in the thread where my time here started.

Hba1c (21st July 2023) - 83
Hba1c (7th November 2023) - 32
Hba1c (14th May 2024) - 29 (I really don't know how it's gone down again!)

Weight (21st July 2023) - 24st 9lb (156kg)
Weight (7th November 2023) - 20st 2lb (128kg)
Weight (14th May 2024) - 16st 2lb (102.5kg)
Loss since diagnosis - 8st 7lbs (53.5kg)

Cholesterol (14th August 2023):
Serum cholesterol - 4.6
HDL - 0.73
LDL - 2.7
Triglycerides - 2.5 (0.5 to 2.3 are considered normal range)

Cholesterol (7th November 2023):
Serum cholesterol - 4.4
HDL - 0.87
LDL - 2.9
Triglycerides - 1.4

Cholesterol (14th May 2024):
Serum cholesterol - 4.8
HDL - 1.19
LDL - 3.0
Triglycerides - 1.4

I believe the hba1c result also puts me in remission status, but yet to have that confirmed by DN.

Thank you again to everyone here who's helped me, supported me and encouraged me. I haven't been around much since Christmas due to life and work stuff making my schedule pretty hectic, but this forum is such a special place to me!
 
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