Hello, thank you and a question about fat!

[sammy62]

4 weeks ago I was diagnosed with boarderline diabetes. To be honest I think my GP was more shocked than I was. But it still terrified me. Ive always had problems tolerating sugar and have been struggling for years, with awful hypos a few hours after eating, sometimes to the point of almost collapse. I'm 50 now so she kept saying it's the menapause but I knew it wasnt! So I think I knew it was coming. I have been feeling so fatigued for the past 6 months that I asked for some blood tests. They have come back with a level of Hba1c 44. So not much over but they have gone up a lot in the past 2 years. I have asked for a oral glucose tolerance test but they won't do one. Can you insist on that do you know?

Since hitting 50 I stared to gain weight I just ate more and more carbs and couldn't work out why I'd kept putting on weight!! I couldnt understand it as in my mind i wasn't eating sugar. Doh!! I would eat a wacking meal then be starving an hour later.

Can I just say what a fabulous site this is. I have been reading it almost daily for the past month and have learnt so much from you all. Because of what i have read I have now started a LCHF way of eating, much to the disapproval of the diabetic team. I have lost nearly a stone already. My BMI is 27 so i need to lose about a stone and a half more. I have not a single hypo since starting. I am testing my blood sugars pre and after meals go see what impacts me. Although I have not eaten any bread, potato or rice since starting it. Too scared I won't be able to stop if I start again!!

I am slightly confused how to work out how much fat to eat tho..do you need to count it or if I'm losing weight just assume I'm doing it right. I'm sticking to below 50gm carbs per day but most days it's under 30.

Thanks again you have been a total lifesaver

 

[Totto]

You eat until you are full, it's as simple as that. Check this site http://www.dietdoctor.com/.

So keep carbs low as you do, don't overdo protein, fill up on fat.

 

[Lamont D]

4 weeks ago I was diagnosed with boarderline diabetes. To be honest I think my GP was more shocked than I was. But it still terrified me. Ive always had problems tolerating sugar and have been struggling for years, with awful hypos a few hours after eating, sometimes to the point of almost collapse. I'm 50 now so she kept saying it's the menapause but I knew it wasnt! So I think I knew it was coming. I have been feeling so fatigued for the past 6 months that I asked for some blood tests. They have come back with a level of Hba1c 44. So not much over but they have gone up a lot in the past 2 years. I have asked for a oral glucose tolerance test but they won't do one. Can you insist on that do you know?

Since hitting 50 I stared to gain weight I just ate more and more carbs and couldn't work out why I'd kept putting on weight!! I couldnt understand it as in my mind i wasn't eating sugar. Doh!! I would eat a wacking meal then be starving an hour later.

Can I just say what a fabulous site this is. I have been reading it almost daily for the past month and have learnt so much from you all. Because of what i have read I have now started a LCHF way of eating, much to the disapproval of the diabetic team. I have lost nearly a stone already. My BMI is 27 so i need to lose about a stone and a half more. I have not a single hypo since starting. I am testing my blood sugars pre and after meals go see what impacts me. Although I have not eaten any bread, potato or rice since starting it. Too scared I won't be able to stop if I start again!!

I am slightly confused how to work out how much fat to eat tho..do you need to count it or if I'm losing weight just assume I'm doing it right. I'm sticking to below 50gm carbs per day but most days it's under 30.

Thanks again you have been a total lifesaver

Im going to suggest you read the two links below in my signature box, I'm not going to say that you have probably got this that or the other, but see if something resembles what you have gone through. Ask any questions, myself or someone else will answer.

Please read below, particularly the third one

 

[sammy62]

Im going to suggest you read the two links below in my signature box, I'm not going to say that you have probably got this that or the other, but see if something resembles what you have gone through. Ask any questions, myself or someone else will answer.

Please read below, particularly the third one

Hi nosher I think I'm being really dim as I can't actually see the links!! It's taken me this long to work out how to post anything!!

 

[Lamont D]

Hi again!

My links are below this box and in red.
No worries, it took me ages to get my head around the forums at first. But it was worth it!

I've tagged @Brunneria to help!

 

[sammy62]

OK I've found the stuff on reactive hypoglycaemia and mentioning the book by someone called Diane Cress. That is exactly the path I have taken and do you know it makes me very angry that i have been not listened to by my GP all this time and I'm now at the prediabetic stage. So ok I have a chance to turn that round and I will do everything to ensure I do. Now I am already at this stage do I need to get more tests done? Can I turn it round or will it just get worse even with the chance in eating?

 

[Lamont D]

Do read up on hypoglycaemia as it is controllable by food.
I know not about the book you mention, but if it recommends not eating carbs and sugars, then it is worth reading. Most GPs don't understand what the many forms of hypoglycaemia can be like. They wouldn't recognize it and still believe it is like yourself prediabetic.
To get diagnosed completely a number of tests do need to be done, but only by specialist endocrinologists. By eating low carb, I live a full life and I've never been fitter or healthier.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome!

You've found at least one of the RH threads.
Here are the other links @nosher8355 has in his forum signature (are you reading the forum on a phone? I don't think the sigs show on phones)

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/reactive-hypoglycaemia.71083/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/xfa-blogs/nosher8355.85785/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/reactive-hypoglycaemia-101-blog-no-31.618/

It sounds like you are getting your head around things nicely.

And in answer to your question, yes, it is usually controllable by diet.
But i don't know if 'reversible' is the right word.
I do think that with consistent dietary control most of us can lead symptomless lives.

 

[sammy62]

Hi and welcome!

You've found at least one of the RH threads.
Here are the other links @nosher8355 has in his forum signature (are you reading the forum on a phone? I don't think the sigs show on phones)

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/reactive-hypoglycaemia.71083/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/xfa-blogs/nosher8355.85785/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/reactive-hypoglycaemia-101-blog-no-31.618/

It sounds like you are getting your head around things nicely.

And in answer to your question, yes, it is usually controllable by diet.
But i don't know if 'reversible' is the right word.
I do think that with consistent dietary control most of us can lead symptomless lives.

Oh I'm so excited that I am not thick after all!!! Yes I am reading it on a phone, that explains it then and also why I couldn't find how to post anything. Thank you for your response @Brunner is. As I said I've been on here most days and also read couple of books. Why We Get Fat by Garry Taubes..... very illuminating. I will read the links you sent, thanks.

 

[sammy62]

OK I have had a good read and a lot of that describes me which makes me even crosser!! So the next step for me is what? That is my slight confusion. But I'm sure to have a lot more so watch this space . I know you can't tell me what to do and I respect that what are your thoughts? Would you suggest I carry on with LCHF - that's a no brainer I know - and then get retested in 6 months? My GP has said 12 months but I'm not waiting that long. She basically said your prediabetic, lose some weight and I'll test you again in 12 months, no advice on diet nothing ......yep let's not go there!! If I do have RH do I need to know, does that impact my managing things? Should I ask for a referral to a consultant? I really wanted to have an oral glucose test done but they said no. I know I am, so I guess it will only tell me what I already know! If I'd not been ill and just found out I had prediabeties I would obviously be shocked but not so frustrated. I've felt **** for 10 years with my BS totally unstable and no one believed me...violins . Still at least I know now.

 

[Totto]

You don't want to do an OGTT, not if you have RH problems. Chance is you'll get really ill for several days. My RH days are in the past but it was bad enough anyway.

The sensible thing would be to settle on a low carb diet that makes you feel well like LCHF if that suits you, keep your appointments with your GP and possibly get yourself a meter and test. You will probably manage very well on LCHF.

 

[Brunneria]

Basically there are two ways to go.

I had RH for years, and learned to manage it for myself with diet. To this day, the doc doesn't know that it was RH. I think they thought I was a hypochonriac! I can manage perfectly well with diet, and it is actually easier and better for me now that I have tipped over into T2 diabetes.

@nosher8355 has fought and pushed and struggled to get a diagnosis. I think he had to produce a severe hypo inside the surgery before his doc gave him a referral. He has managed to see an endocrinologist who actually believes that RH exists (lots of them don't), and has recieved treatment.

But really, like type 2 D, the biggest and best and simplest treatment is to go the diet route. You will have to do it anyway, so my advice is see if you can manage on diet alone, and only start the Diagnosis Battle if it looks like the diet isn't enough.

Welcome to the club!

 

[Lamont D]

OK I have had a good read and a lot of that describes me which makes me even crosser!! So the next step for me is what? That is my slight confusion. But I'm sure to have a lot more so watch this space . I know you can't tell me what to do and I respect that what are your thoughts? Would you suggest I carry on with LCHF - that's a no brainer I know - and then get retested in 6 months? My GP has said 12 months but I'm not waiting that long. She basically said your prediabetic, lose some weight and I'll test you again in 12 months, no advice on diet nothing ......yep let's not go there!! If I do have RH do I need to know, does that impact my managing things? Should I ask for a referral to a consultant? I really wanted to have an oral glucose test done but they said no. I know I am, so I guess it will only tell me what I already know! If I'd not been ill and just found out I had prediabeties I would obviously be shocked but not so frustrated. I've felt **** for 10 years with my BS totally unstable and no one believed me...violins . Still at least I know now.

Your story resembles so much of what I had to go through. Prediabetes, T2 diabetes, both misdiagnosed, I am not diabetic, I have a blood glucose disorder. We RH ers flush insulin in response to all carbs and sugars that both of them turn into glucose, we use glucose very quickly (hyper) and the excess insulin creates the low (hypo) which is the reactive part of it.
I try and not touch carbs and sugar, I know I'm allergic to them. So I very, very low carb to avoid the hyper, so I don't hypo!
Your blood glucose levels 're probably all over the place hence the horrible symptoms. If you can get control then the symptoms and there are many will go away eventually.
You've asked whether to try an Oral glucose test. Web I would only if I knew somebody would be there to help me and misunderstand completely what you are looking for and how to read your results of what is happening. Because you still may have low awareness of your hypos, you might not feel different. Because I have good awareness, I would really feel a hypo!
You would have to be very careful.
If you want you should keep a food diary, to show to your medical team to show what's going on. If you haven't you do need a blood glucose meter. That's the only way you know what foods affect you, test, experiment,test, record, test, experiment, record. You should after a while on low carb get your blood glucose levels back to normal so that your Hba1c next time will show you are not prediabetic, but your spike will still be high when you do eat carbs.
GPs are not trained to recognize RH or most of the hypoglycaemic conditions.
Only an endocrinologist would recognise the condition if you are lucky!
I was very fortunate to get mine.
I would try again in the future when you can show your doctor what is going on.
Keep asking the questions, either myself or @Brunneria will answer.
Low carb works and I've lost and losing weight. And I'm fitter and healthier than I have been for years. Yes! It's a no Brainerd!

Welcome to our unique club!

 

[sammy62]

You don't want to do an OGTT, not if you have RH problems. Chance is you'll get really ill for several days. My RH days are in the past but it was bad enough anyway.

The sensible thing would be to settle on a low carb diet that makes you feel well like LCHF if that suits you, keep your appointments with your GP and possibly get yourself a meter and test. You will probably manage very well on LCHF.

OK thanks. I have a metre and am testing.

Basically there are two ways to go.

I had RH for years, and learned to manage it for myself with diet. To this day, the doc doesn't know that it was RH. I think they thought I was a hypochonriac! I can manage perfectly well with diet, and it is actually easier and better for me now that I have tipped over into T2 diabetes.

@nosher8355 has fought and pushed and struggled to get a diagnosis. I think he had to produce a severe hypo inside the surgery before his doc gave him a referral. He has managed to see an endocrinologist who actually believes that RH exists (lots of them don't), and has recieved treatment.

But really, like type 2 D, the biggest and best and simplest treatment is to go the diet route. You will have to do it anyway, so my advice is see if you can manage on diet alone, and only start the Diagnosis Battle if it looks like the diet isn't enough.

Welcome to the club!

Thank you both for replying, I think that is what I will do and hope that I can stop it progressing to type 2. Although I totally get that I will always be at risk and that if I go back my old way of eating then it will come to me eventually. I hope I can stop it. Hoping too that once I have lost some weight I maybe able up my carbs slightly and bring in the odd potato....my total addiction!! I did actually have 2 small new potatoes at a family party 2 weeks go without causing a spike so hopefully that is a good sign. Didn't have the same result with a whole low carb roll from lidells tho, so I know I can only have half a one!
Thanks again and I'm sure I will be back with more questions. I can't tell you how grateful I am to everyone for their help, given freely, even if you didn't know you were giving it!!

 

[sammy62]

Your story resembles so much of what I had to go through. Prediabetes, T2 diabetes, both misdiagnosed, I am not diabetic, I have a blood glucose disorder. We RH ers flush insulin in response to all carbs and sugars that both of them turn into glucose, we use glucose very quickly (hyper) and the excess insulin creates the low (hypo) which is the reactive part of it.
I try and not touch carbs and sugar, I know I'm allergic to them. So I very, very low carb to avoid the hyper, so I don't hypo!
Your blood glucose levels 're probably all over the place hence the horrible symptoms. If you can get control then the symptoms and there are many will go away eventually.
You've asked whether to try an Oral glucose test. Web I would only if I knew somebody would be there to help me and misunderstand completely what you are looking for and how to read your results of what is happening. Because you still may have low awareness of your hypos, you might not feel different. Because I have good awareness, I would really feel a hypo!
You would have to be very careful.
If you want you should keep a food diary, to show to your medical team to show what's going on. If you haven't you do need a blood glucose meter. That's the only way you know what foods affect you, test, experiment,test, record, test, experiment, record. You should after a while on low carb get your blood glucose levels back to normal so that your Hba1c next time will show you are not prediabetic, but your spike will still be high when you do eat carbs.
GPs are not trained to recognize RH or most of the hypoglycaemic conditions.
Only an endocrinologist would recognise the condition if you are lucky!
I was very fortunate to get mine.
I would try again in the future when you can show your doctor what is going on.
Keep asking the questions, either myself or @Brunneria will answer.
Low carb works and I've lost and losing weight. And I'm fitter and healthier than I have been for years. Yes! It's a no Brainerd!

Welcome to our unique club!

Thanks @nosher8355 I am keeping a food diary and testing onwards and upwards. My greyhounds are loving the new food regime as they get the left over fat off the meat when I'm full . It used to be low fat yogart pots to lick out so they have really gone up in the world!!

 

[Lamont D]

OK thanks. I have a metre and am testing.

Thank you both for replying, I think that is what I will do and hope that I can stop it progressing to type 2. Although I totally get that I will always be at risk and that if I go back my old way of eating then it will come to me eventually. I hope I can stop it. Hoping too that once I have lost some weight I maybe able up my carbs slightly and bring in the odd potato....my total addiction!! I did actually have 2 small new potatoes at a family party 2 weeks go without causing a spike so hopefully that is a good sign. Didn't have the same result with a whole low carb roll from lidells tho, so I know I can only have half a one!
Thanks again and I'm sure I will be back with more questions. I can't tell you how grateful I am to everyone for their help, given freely, even if you didn't know you were giving it!!

Potatoes are my nemesis, as well as any grains.
If you do have RH, you will be reluctant to eat anything at all that gives you even a little spike.
I have lived to do without them baddies, as I've said being RH makes me have an allergic reaction to anything that turns to glucose in your blood.
Once you in control and have your hypo awareness, any fluctuating blood glucose levels will give you symptoms. You will have symptoms that you are probably unaware of!
Yes, it is that life changing! I will have to eat like this until my pancreas gives up.
You do need to think about this very carefully!!!

There is one other thing that I forgot to mention. That is eat little and often, this will counteract the hypo. Small plate size and low carb, little meals throughout the day!
I do eat about 6-8 very small meals, even if it is just a bite of meat or a couple of spoons of full fat yoghurt. Full fat is so important when low carbing as well as eating animal fats instead of oils when you cook!
Have a read of the low carb forum for ideas.

Oh yeah, I should warn you how to treat a hypo.
If you feel that you are going too low, test, then get yourself a cuppa, tea or coffee, and a couple of plain biscuits. Eat one and then your bloods will rise slowly, then a little while later say 15 minutes, then have a very low carb meal.
You should feel better.

If you get a hypo never treat it with glucose or any sugary glucose drink or starchy, food.
What will happen, is that you will spike and hypo again, like a yo yo! That will bring back the symptoms.

Hope this helps.

 

[sammy62]

How do you define a "little spike"? From what I think i understood a spike is anything over 2 points higher than your pre meal test. Is that correct? Mostly in the day I'm running on between 5 and 6 pre meal with 2 hour post meals giving me under 7 pretty much everytime. Apart from when I ate the lidells roll then it went up to 8.6 from 5.4. I freaked out then!! I used to live on oat cakes when I had hypos. But obviously now i know they are actually high carb. I would take them everywhere with me! But I've not had a single hypo since I started this diet. Just wish what I know now 10 years ago!!

First thing in the morning I'm usually between 6 and 6.5 I know that's a bit high but again from what I think I understand these figures will go down but it takes more time. Is that correct?

See I told you I'd have more questions

 

[Lamont D]

Yes, a little spike is just over 2mmols at two hours, but, and it's a big but! Because we spike quickly and usually two hours is a bit to late to record what has already happened.
With this condition, you might spike within an hour or even half an hour! That's the reason why you felt hungry very quickly after eating and the hunger symptoms.
You crave more carbs!

How do you define a "little spike"? From what I think i understood a spike is anything over 2 points higher than your pre meal test. Is that correct? Mostly in the day I'm running on between 5 and 6 pre meal with 2 hour post meals giving me under 7 pretty much everytime. Apart from when I ate the lidells roll then it went up to 8.6 from 5.4. I freaked out then!! I used to live on oat cakes when I had hypos. But obviously now i know they are actually high carb. I would take them everywhere with me! But I've not had a single hypo since I started this diet. Just wish what I know now 10 years ago!!

First thing in the morning I'm usually between 6 and 6.5 I know that's a bit high but again from what I think I understand these figures will go down but it takes more time. Is that correct?

See I told you I'd have more questions

Yes, it will come down as you get more control. And as you get control the weight will start coming off. The reason you have slowly put on weight is the excess insulin that turns into visceral fat that surrounds your endocrine organs.
I predict that your Hba1c will be normal after a few months of low carbing from where your figures are now, but I could be wrong!
Your morning results could be skewed by dawn phenomenon, which is your liver putting glucose into your blood to start the day.
I don't have this but @Brunneria does.

 

[sammy62]

Thanks. The weight is coming off slowly which is great . I may be slim again one day you never know!! I will maybe test at half hour then once I start trying a few different foods. It's so good to finally begin to understand what the heck has been going on with me. No one could ever understand why I could eat a wacking great meal and I mean huge and then be starving again!! Now I am hardly eating anything compared to what I was but I feel so much better. Still quite fatigued at times and foggy but much improved and hopefully this will slowly go. Mind you the menopause confuses things somewhat!! Thanks again.

 

[Lamont D]

Once you have dumped the carbs, the fug and the tiredness will go.
Hope that it will all become clear and you get the energy back and the well being feeling I get.
There are more questions I know, but that will do for now!
Enjoy your new lifestyle!