Hello.

[slinky49]

Hi, I'm new to this site. I first became diabetic following a covid infection; having said that I think I'd been sailing close to the wind for several years. On first being diagnosed, I decided to try to avoid medication and tried the Michael Mosley Fast 800 (more like 900) and after three months was into pre-diabetes.

Sadly, exit from the wagon began gradually, and I'm diabetic again with an Hb score of 52. Again, don't think this has been helped by a second recent covid infection.

Has anyone had more than one try at getting into remission ? I'd be so pleased to know. I really want to commit to a 'normal' Hb score this time, but feel a bit anxious that I may have scuppered my chances by falling off the plan.

My GP has offered the 12-week meal replacement programme. An added incentive for me is that it comes with an apparently high level of morale support/coaching. Has anybody had a good experience on this programme, please ? I'm still desperate to avoid medication.

I've read accounts of people getting down to normal without much in the way of exercise. I notice that if I exercise too much at the moment (particularly if it's near a mealtime) I actually get what feels like a 'hypo'. This makes me think that I should follow my instincts and exercise little and often. Does anyone have any experience of exercise helping them, please ?

I think I need to lose about 3 stone. I'm feeling daunted. Any help very gratefully accepted.

Thank you.

 

[mouseee]

Welcome!
I'm on at least round three of getting hba1c back in a good place. 52 is also very low - my diabetic nurse was pleased with that for me as I'd just reduced it from 64. Diabetes is diagnosed at 48 so you haven't got much to do really and that's manageable.
Many people on here go low carb to manage without meds and many of them successfully keep low numbers. I have meds but don't want to add more so I'm trying to make the carb intake sustainable this time.
With low carb you will be able to lose that weight as long as you can makenit sustainable. Personally, I wouldn't go near shakes etc with or without coaching. When you go back to real food I'm sure I'd falter more. But thats all personal choice.

 

[KennyA]

Hi and welcome. Yes, as you know it is possible to reduce your BG quite quickly. As you also know, some willpower is needed.

You haven't wrecked your chances. Actually, you have first hand experience that what you were doing before works, and will work again. I'd suggest thinking from the outset about the need to make changes that you can sustain long-term: one of the concerns I would have for myself with any "shakes and a programme" intervention would be that at some point when the programme stops I'd have to stop and learn to eat real food. So I started out with the real food, and it worked.

By the way, I took absolutely no exercise until long after (>two years?) my BG was normal, because I was too heavy. And I didn't lose much weight until well after I was at normal BG either. In total I've lost somewhere over 30kg. These days I do exercise, but it's because I enjoy it . My weight loss and BG control are down to my diet.

 

[derekhansen]

I was diagnosed last September with an Hb1ac of 49, so like you, only just over the threshold. Also like you I desperately wanted to avoid medication.
I went on a low carb diet limiting myself to 40-60G of carb per day. 8 months down the line I have lost 24kg in weight and feel so much healthier. Most importantly my Hb1ac was tested after 3 months and it was down to 37.
For what its worth here are my thoughts and opinions on the process.
1. Forget organised diet plans, shakes etc, unless you can sustain for the rest of your life. This is critical. Any change to the way you eat MUST be something you can stick to long term. The main reason calorie counting has never worked in the past for me is that the restrictions in amount and food types left me hungry and miserable. As a comfort eater that was never going to work. I keep a daily record of my carb intake but completely ignore the calorie content.
2. Be wary of following the current NHS guidelines. They are out of date, still sticking to the low fat high fibre recommendations that have proved to be ineffectual in lowering blood sugar for most people.
3. I believe that using a hard exercise regime to lose weight is not really necessary and could be misleading. What I mean is that, yes, it will help with weight loss but it will also increase your hunger and again you will have to maintain that high level of exercise for the rest of your life. I have recently started riding a bike a couple of times a week but to be honest my weightloss so far has been achieved with just the occasional walk.
4. I lost most of the weight in the first 3 months. The last 5 months has seen the weight fall much more slowly but steadily. I expected this and frankly after getting my Hb1ac down to normal level my attitude is that there is no rush. I weigh myself weekly and as long as the weight has not increased I just shrug my shoulders and keep going.
5. Others here use a blood counter. I don't but I did for a while. I think if your blood sugar level was diagnosed as high and or you had been T2 diabetic for some time using a meter is a very good idea to track which foods spike your insulin. I used mine for a month or so and thankfully the results never showed a result to be concerned about so my use lapsed.

My diagnosis was a very scary moment but also a real kick in the **** which definitely contributed to my determination to rid my self of T2 diabetes. It hasn't exactly been easy but it hasn't been that hard either. I can eat lots of the type of the food I do love but have to avoid the food that is not, and I have not really felt hungry. In fact my hunger and cravings are far less than when I was eating all that sugar and starch.
I would never say that hearing I had such a potentially dangerous and debilitating disease has been a good thing; but dealing with it and reversing its symptoms has had many positive effects .. at least for me.

 

[Melgar]

Hi and welcome @slinky49 I am an exercise type of person. I do around 25,000 to 30,000 steps a day, some uphill, some on the flat. Other than medication, it is the only thing that is keeping my blood sugars down. Any exercise is better than no exercise. Even if you are walking 20 - 30 mins a day. Exercise reduces insulin resistance, which in part, drives up your blood sugars, the other contributing factor is diet.

Simply put in Type 2 diabetes the cells in your muscles have become resistant and cannot utilize the blood glucose metabolized by your body from the food you eat. Because your muscles are unable to accept the blood sugars, these sugars have no where to go so they float around in your blood, hence the raised blood sugars.

So as well as exercise, diet is very important in bringing down your blood sugars. There are many members on this forum that have driven their blood sugars down through diet. I will leave it up to them to offer their own experiences around diet.

 

[slinky49]

Welcome!
I'm on at least round three of getting hba1c back in a good place. 52 is also very low - my diabetic nurse was pleased with that for me as I'd just reduced it from 64. Diabetes is diagnosed at 48 so you haven't got much to do really and that's manageable.
Many people on here go low carb to manage without meds and many of them successfully keep low numbers. I have meds but don't want to add more so I'm trying to make the carb intake sustainable this time.
With low carb you will be able to lose that weight as long as you can makenit sustainable. Personally, I wouldn't go near shakes etc with or without coaching. When you go back to real food I'm sure I'd falter more. But thats all personal choice.

Thank you so much. This is really appreciated. And I know what you mean about shakes. I'm going to watch myself carefully ! Especially on the re-entry ! Good news is the NHS programme is coaching/counselling heavy. Let's see. Thanks again.

 

[slinky49]

Hi and welcome. Yes, as you know it is possible to reduce your BG quite quickly. As you also know, some willpower is needed.

You haven't wrecked your chances. Actually, you have first hand experience that what you were doing before works, and will work again. I'd suggest thinking from the outset about the need to make changes that you can sustain long-term: one of the concerns I would have for myself with any "shakes and a programme" intervention would be that at some point when the programme stops I'd have to stop and learn to eat real food. So I started out with the real food, and it worked.

By the way, I took absolutely no exercise until long after (>two years?) my BG was normal, because I was too heavy. And I didn't lose much weight until well after I was at normal BG either. In total I've lost somewhere over 30kg. These days I do exercise, but it's because I enjoy it . My weight loss and BG control are down to my diet.

What a great, supportive, encouraging reply ! Thank you !

 

[slinky49]

I was diagnosed last September with an Hb1ac of 49, so like you, only just over the threshold. Also like you I desperately wanted to avoid medication.
I went on a low carb diet limiting myself to 40-60G of carb per day. 8 months down the line I have lost 24kg in weight and feel so much healthier. Most importantly my Hb1ac was tested after 3 months and it was down to 37.
For what its worth here are my thoughts and opinions on the process.
1. Forget organised diet plans, shakes etc, unless you can sustain for the rest of your life. This is critical. Any change to the way you eat MUST be something you can stick to long term. The main reason calorie counting has never worked in the past for me is that the restrictions in amount and food types left me hungry and miserable. As a comfort eater that was never going to work. I keep a daily record of my carb intake but completely ignore the calorie content.
2. Be wary of following the current NHS guidelines. They are out of date, still sticking to the low fat high fibre recommendations that have proved to be ineffectual in lowering blood sugar for most people.
3. I believe that using a hard exercise regime to lose weight is not really necessary and could be misleading. What I mean is that, yes, it will help with weight loss but it will also increase your hunger and again you will have to maintain that high level of exercise for the rest of your life. I have recently started riding a bike a couple of times a week but to be honest my weightloss so far has been achieved with just the occasional walk.
4. I lost most of the weight in the first 3 months. The last 5 months has seen the weight fall much more slowly but steadily. I expected this and frankly after getting my Hb1ac down to normal level my attitude is that there is no rush. I weigh myself weekly and as long as the weight has not increased I just shrug my shoulders and keep going.
5. Others here use a blood counter. I don't but I did for a while. I think if your blood sugar level was diagnosed as high and or you had been T2 diabetic for some time using a meter is a very good idea to track which foods spike your insulin. I used mine for a month or so and thankfully the results never showed a result to be concerned about so my use lapsed.

My diagnosis was a very scary moment but also a real kick in the **** which definitely contributed to my determination to rid my self of T2 diabetes. It hasn't exactly been easy but it hasn't been that hard either. I can eat lots of the type of the food I do love but have to avoid the food that is not, and I have not really felt hungry. In fact my hunger and cravings are far less than when I was eating all that sugar and starch.
I would never say that hearing I had such a potentially dangerous and debilitating disease has been a good thing; but dealing with it and reversing its symptoms has had many positive effects .. at least for me.

Thank you so much for taking the trouble, thought and time to provide such a thought-provoking answer. As another reply pointed out, shakes etc. are not ideal because you still have to broach the issue of 'real' food ultimately. My reasoning is, I'll try it - it might drive me nuts - I especially appreciate your observation about NHS guidelines and how the shakes etc. might actually be following some old guidelines. Ditto the observation that high exercise levels might mean your staying at that high level ...

I've actually noticed post-covid that I can only exercise gently anyway - any more and I get what seems remarkably like the description of a 'hypo' - trembling, sweating, thinking you're going to pass out, ravenously hungry, nauseous etc. I think this is a combination of the diabetes and the post-covid syndrome because covid does lots of weird things to you - it's not just respiration, but glucose metabolism, haematological processes, endocrine issues etc.

First time I was diagnosed with diabetic blood glucose levels was after a horrendous year of long covid. I'd had the delta variant and also I suspect a vaccine similar to that variant. And the D variant seems to be particularly bad at putting peeps into novel diabetes. At that time, I wasn't exercising at all. I just dieted on the fast '900' for 3 months and got down to 46.

 

[slinky49]

Hi and welcome @slinky49 I am an exercise type of person. I do around 25,000 to 30,000 steps a day, some uphill, some on the flat. Other than medication, it is the only thing that is keeping my blood sugars down. Any exercise is better than no exercise. Even if you are walking 20 - 30 mins a day. Exercise reduces insulin resistance, which in part, drives up your blood sugars, the other contributing factor is diet.

Simply put in Type 2 diabetes the cells in your muscles have become resistant and cannot utilize the blood glucose metabolized by your body from the food you eat. Because your muscles are unable to accept the blood sugars, these sugars have no where to go so they float around in your blood, hence the raised blood sugars.

So as well as exercise, diet is very important in bringing down your blood sugars. There are many members on this forum that have driven their blood sugars down through diet. I will leave it up to them to offer their own experiences around diet.

Wow ! Amazing that you do all that ! Good for you ! Post covid I just feel too weary to exercise much anyway, but I do think that gentle, regular exercise is praised as a big anti-inflammatory aid, so I'm willing to do it. I'm still in the first few weeks of post-covid/diabetic torpor - so I really notice the absolute antipathy I have towards the whole idea of exercise before I go to the gym. However, I coax myself in there by saying 'just swim 10 lengths'. Or 'just do a bit of mat work'. It's not easy, this mind game/mental energy/physical exhaustion thing. But I have always felt that little bit better, less 'cloudy' and a tiny bit more positive on leaving.

Thank you !

 

[Melgar]

Wow ! Amazing that you do all that ! Good for you ! Post covid I just feel too weary to exercise much anyway, but I do think that gentle, regular exercise is praised as a big anti-inflammatory aid, so I'm willing to do it. I'm still in the first few weeks of post-covid/diabetic torpor - so I really notice the absolute antipathy I have towards the whole idea of exercise before I go to the gym. However, I coax myself in there by saying 'just swim 10 lengths'. Or 'just do a bit of mat work'. It's not easy, this mind game/mental energy/physical exhaustion thing. But I have always felt that little bit better, less 'cloudy' and a tiny bit more positive on leaving.

Thank you !

You are so welcome @slinky49 . I have always been into my running. I just zone out. I had a very stressful job and that is how I was able to manage my stress. It helped because I was also a competitive runner. I like swimming too, I can swim for miles, but running was my thing. I didn't do any other sport. So exercise is what comes naturally for me. I totally get how you can get so tired after work and all you want to do is sit down and chill watch some TV and relax. Walking is an easy compromise, you don't have to bust a gut or buy a track suit or runners, just use some flat walking shoes and off you go lol, Just take a stroll down the road. Walk with purpose is better than dawdling for sure. Using your leg muscles forces the muscle cells to utilise blood glucose. It does become technical, but suffice to say exercise reduces insulin resistance and adipose fat, improves your metabolism, heart rate, blood pressure and insulin sensitivity and you lose some weight too. Diet is also very important, a lot of folks can bring down their blood sugars with a very low carb diet, but I know a few people find it a challenge to seriously restrict their carbs in the long term, so exercise and a better diet with lower carb intake works. You may wish to just do the diet, and that seriously works, brings down blood sugars, reduces LDL's and triglycerides so a big thumbs up for that but really in the long term, a combo of exercise and reduced carb in take, in my personal opinion, is the best way to go forward and get a handle on your blood sugars and improve your body's over all health and well-being.