Help..Getting bored with veg and dairy

donnellysdogs · Jul 22, 2017

Brunneria said:
There are lots of reasons that cholesterol rises and falls. Switching to a diet lower in carbs, especially simple carbs, will lower cholesterol, as will going on lower calorie diets and reducing alcohol intake.

I am not saying you are wrong, just that there are many factors at work, and in the situation you describe there may well have been several of those factors in play.

For instance, a diet rich in pies, is a diet with red meat, processed low quality fats, highly processed carbs, and little fibre. All those things could be contrubutors, not just the saturated fat. Also, if a person is filling up on pies, they won't be eating other things which may have a beneficial impact. Especially when a lot of mass produced pastry is made with unhealthy fats.

Here is the ingredients list of a Fray Bentos Steak and Kidney Pie.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=277597842
Ingredients:
Water, Puff Pastry (27%) (Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Margarine (Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Water, Salt, Emulsifier (Mono-and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids)), Water, Salt), Beef (12%), Pork Kidney (9%), Stabiliser (Xanthan Gum), Modified Maize Starch , Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Salt, Spices, Yeast Extract, Flavouring, Tomato Paste, Barley Malt Extract, Beef Extract, Chicory Extract, Sugar, Colour (Plain Caramel), Tomato Powder, Garlic Powder

In the above, there is twice as much puff pastry as beef (kidney is low in fat), and all the added fat is margarine and veg oil.
I just think that blaming saturated fat for raised cholesterol in those circumstances is a bit too simplistic.

Omg!! Only 21% meat!! How do they get away with calling that a beef and kidney pie? Actually I think saudages only have tonhave a very minimal amount of meat in too, thinking about it.
Sorry to detract but couldnt believe the ingredients list!! Absolutely gobsmacked. If pie weighed 200g -only jyst above 40g of meat and 160ish g of ugh!!! Dire...

Resurgam · Jul 22, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
I hope I am misunderstanding this ridicule. Is this how the moderators here treat people who manage their condition without saturated fats? Disappointed doesn't come close.

Please do not be upset.
It was the claim that people eating saturated fat could only manage their diabetes by eating no fruits and vegetables which started it all - thought I am finding the insistence that our aim should be able to eat cake and drink down sugar highly irritating.

Brunneria · Jul 22, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
I hope I am misunderstanding this ridicule. Is this how the moderators here treat people who manage their condition without saturated fats? Disappointed doesn't come close.

I'm sorry that you see my comment as ridicule.
It was meant perfectly seriously.

I could have chosen many other examples, so if any of the ones I chose particularly offend you, I apologise for that too.
However, they are all examples of where there is a lot of information on the internet based on faith rather than on verifiable fact.

Please also note that i was asking @phonic2k for evidence to support his claims to establish if they can be verified and so that they can be properly discussed. Since without more detail, that is not possible.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs and diet choices, but when scientific claims are made, then i often ask for references and verifiable studies.

Brunneria · Jul 22, 2017

phonic2k said:
Reversing as in not controlled by diet. Someone that can eat cakes, and pass a fasting OGTT.
I referred to google search, as they are too many to list on fats and insulin resistance, but for myself I've fully reversed the condition, and have a normal response to glucose after passing a fasting OGTT. That's the official response from my doctor.

Here's one on Fat:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-causes-insulin-resistance/

Here's one on Animal protein and Insulin resistance:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=491294564547883
Yes, before we air such things we have to double check that he is a qualified doctor and the validity of his claims and interview his subjects and check they are not false, as that would be breaking our OFCOM broadcasting license, and would be fined otherwise.

I don't need to post here anymore, as I've already achieved my goal, and just wanted to share my success and information that my help others too, but my apologies, I will reframe from posting here.

At a later time I could post his lectures that we recorded. I'm off on holiday now... have a good summer!

Thank you for posting those links. It will give people an opportunity to evaluate your statements themselves.

People often post links to you tube videos, lectures and conferences, so you could do that for the lectures.

Kristin251 · Jul 22, 2017

I don't find this forum closed minded at all.

There are hundreds of members with variousness diets and most are not wrong or right. That depends on the individual

I don't do well on saturated fats but many thrive on it. My hubby being one of those people ( not diabetic)

I can't eat carbs and we all have various tolerances.

Nobody here pushes anything. Well perhaps lower carb for people who don't have control but that's a no brainer. We all share our personal experiences and to some it validates what they are doing as ok. For others it offers suggestions they may not have thought of.

I find this forum invaluable even though I don't eat the same diet as everyone else. I could not have such good control without some helpful hints and suggestions.

Happy holidays!!!

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
Hi @derry60 If you fancy bread, there are several lower carb varieties available in the major supermarkets now. If you only have an Aldi and nothing else, you could try making some. I like this recipe Or go without bread and just eat the stuff you would put in/on it.

Have you tried cauliflower rice? I have used it for rice, couscous, risotto, jambalaya etc. If you are missing breakfast cereals, you can toast chopped nuts and seeds in a dry frying pan with a little ground ginger and sweetener if you like to make muesli. Better than shop bought in my opinion.

Carrots might be better raw than cooked. I find it easier to eat more when they are cooked. Testing will help you find out. It is good that you like cooking. Try not to feel like you are missing out on anything. There are lot of other things to try. Good luck.

I don't usually eat brekky.. Yes I have done the cauliflower rice. I don't know why but when cauliflower is grated it tastes bitter to me, has a stronger taste. I love whole cauliflower but not grated. I have even made a pizza with it, but there seems to be an after taste when it's grated. I have toasted the nuts and seeds yes. I have even melted a small amount of 85% dark chocolate and coated the nuts. I usually make my own cauliflower rice. I once bought cauliflower rice in a bag from Tesco for quickness, OMG i nearly threw up.it was horrible. I have done many recipes. I also go on YouTube as there are loads of low carb recipes on there. It's more the grains and sweet potato I miss. The thing is, grains are good for the bowl, and so is sweet potato. I worry about bowel cancer with not eating skin off the potatoes or high fibre grains. My diet is very varied even low carb,but I must admit my bowels are not the same since I started this.

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Brunneria said:
There are lots of reasons that cholesterol rises and falls. Switching to a diet lower in carbs, especially simple carbs, will lower cholesterol, as will going on lower calorie diets and reducing alcohol intake.

I am not saying you are wrong, just that there are many factors at work, and in the situation you describe there may well have been several of those factors in play.

For instance, a diet rich in pies, is a diet with red meat, processed low quality fats, highly processed carbs, and little fibre. All those things could be contrubutors, not just the saturated fat. Also, if a person is filling up on pies, they won't be eating other things which may have a beneficial impact. Especially when a lot of mass produced pastry is made with unhealthy fats.

Here is the ingredients list of a Fray Bentos Steak and Kidney Pie.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=277597842
Ingredients:
Water, Puff Pastry (27%) (Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Margarine (Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Water, Salt, Emulsifier (Mono-and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids)), Water, Salt), Beef (12%), Pork Kidney (9%), Stabiliser (Xanthan Gum), Modified Maize Starch , Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Salt, Spices, Yeast Extract, Flavouring, Tomato Paste, Barley Malt Extract, Beef Extract, Chicory Extract, Sugar, Colour (Plain Caramel), Tomato Powder, Garlic Powder

In the above, there is twice as much puff pastry as beef (kidney is low in fat), and all the added fat is margarine and veg oil.
I just think that blaming saturated fat for raised cholesterol in those circumstances is a bit too simplistic.

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Bruneria sorry I must have given the wrong impression. I don't mean that I ate loads of pies lol, If I had a pie I would always have veg with it. I used to eat a varied diet even when eating carbs..I loved my fruit, grains, fish, chicken etc. If I had a pie I would not have potatoes but just veg. I stopped cutting the fat off meat because I also read that sat fat did not harm the heart,, I did this for two years and started to have cream again and my Cholesterol went high. Now for 10 years of not eating animal meat fat and eating low-fat cheese, plain yogurt plenty of veg and grains my Cholesterol was good. My Cholesterol is down again..I know I have been eating low carb, but I have also been cutting the fat off meat again and I do not eat pies or anything processed anymore. I will only have bacon on a rare occasion because its processed meat and full of salt.

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Brunneria said:
There are lots of reasons that cholesterol rises and falls. Switching to a diet lower in carbs, especially simple carbs, will lower cholesterol, as will going on lower calorie diets and reducing alcohol intake.

I am not saying you are wrong, just that there are many factors at work, and in the situation you describe there may well have been several of those factors in play.

For instance, a diet rich in pies, is a diet with red meat, processed low quality fats, highly processed carbs, and little fibre. All those things could be contrubutors, not just the saturated fat. Also, if a person is filling up on pies, they won't be eating other things which may have a beneficial impact. Especially when a lot of mass produced pastry is made with unhealthy fats.

Here is the ingredients list of a Fray Bentos Steak and Kidney Pie.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=277597842
Ingredients:
Water, Puff Pastry (27%) (Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Margarine (Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Water, Salt, Emulsifier (Mono-and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids)), Water, Salt), Beef (12%), Pork Kidney (9%), Stabiliser (Xanthan Gum), Modified Maize Starch , Wheatflour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Salt, Spices, Yeast Extract, Flavouring, Tomato Paste, Barley Malt Extract, Beef Extract, Chicory Extract, Sugar, Colour (Plain Caramel), Tomato Powder, Garlic Powder

In the above, there is twice as much puff pastry as beef (kidney is low in fat), and all the added fat is margarine and veg oil.
I just think that blaming saturated fat for raised cholesterol in those circumstances is a bit too simplistic.

Yes but pies also have a lot of Saturated fat in them. I didn't eat them every day,nor eat processed foods every day...I did not go mad on the red meat either. I mainly ate chicken and fish, but when I did eat red meat I stopped cutting the fat off, and stopped eating low-fat foods.This is when my |Cholestorol went through the roof.

GrantGam · Jul 23, 2017

phonic2k said:
My hba1c was 6.9%(52).

I don't want to keep repeating myself and I never said that people on low carb do not eat veg or fruit. I said some keep cutting and cutting until they cut carbs below 50g a day(and even lower) to try and lower blood glucose, and that is when you end up removing veg and fruit, as they contain carbohydrates. I don't personally consider that a solution in my book, as that would mean I still have diabetes, even if blood glucose is in range.

I don't need to spend time posting here anymore, as I've already achieved my goal, but just wanted to share my success and information that could be of help to others too.

I need to take a break from this forum, it does my head in.... Very closed minded.

Congratulations for sharing your views and standing your ground @phonic2k. As you've already seen, some individuals can get pretty excited when their diet of choice is contradicted. The forum rules do state that we all need to: "be considerate to other people’s dietary choices." So it's a real shame that we haven't seen that so far...

The point that the majority here seem to be missing is that you deserve a huge pat on the back for claiming to have reversed your diabetes. Good on you There are many people here who could benefit in hearing from you. I look forward to reading all about it in another thread.

Take care.

Avocado Sevenfold · Jul 23, 2017

phonic2k said:
and all these on zero-carb have reversed diabetes or just controlling?

That's not reversing, but just controlling the problem, and even makes it worse as when they start eating carbs again, they find the body can't cope as well as it did before due to increased insulin resistance, so they cut carbs lower and lower, cutting out all fruit and vegetables, and replacing with even more animal fat. How can that be a solution or even heathy?

More importantly the proof is in the results, and if you're still avoiding carbs due to insulin resistance, then I would give it a try. Btw, I now eat 250-300g carbs a day and this morning my fasting was 4.4mmol/l(yesterday was 3.9) and after breakfast 5.0. I've even had a FGT test a week ago( I needed to know if I really reversed it or not), and passed it...so I'm defiantly not controlling, but have fully reversed it.

btw, Vegetarian or Vegan are not diets, and some still eat the wrong food types. Vegetarians for example still eat high amounts of animal fat. It's not about being a vegetarian or vegan, but the type of fat, carbohydrate, and protein we eat, and how and when to exercise.

Congratulations! This is a great success story. There has been lots in the media recently about the importance of a healthy gut microbiome. Perhaps this is what we are seeing here? I don't know, but you have certainly nailed it so very well done

@derry60 I hope the success of other members, such as the one above, will inspire you. Find your own way of eating and stick to it. Do what works for you and your unique circumstances.

Avocado Sevenfold · Jul 23, 2017

Brunneria said:
I'm sorry that you see my comment as ridicule.
It was meant perfectly seriously.

I could have chosen many other examples, so if any of the ones I chose particularly offend you, I apologise for that too.
However, they are all examples of where there is a lot of information on the internet based on faith rather than on verifiable fact.

Please also note that i was asking @phonic2k for evidence to support his claims to establish if they can be verified and so that they can be properly discussed. Since without more detail, that is not possible.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs and diet choices, but when scientific claims are made, then i often ask for references and verifiable studies.

Don't apologise. Stick to your guns.

Avocado Sevenfold · Jul 23, 2017

derry60 said:
I don't usually eat brekky.. Yes I have done the cauliflower rice. I don't know why but when cauliflower is grated it tastes bitter to me, has a stronger taste. I love whole cauliflower but not grated. I have even made a pizza with it, but there seems to be an after taste when it's grated. I have toasted the nuts and seeds yes. I have even melted a small amount of 85% dark chocolate and coated the nuts. I usually make my own cauliflower rice. I once bought cauliflower rice in a bag from Tesco for quickness, OMG i nearly threw up.it was horrible. I have done many recipes. I also go on YouTube as there are loads of low carb recipes on there. It's more the grains and sweet potato I miss. The thing is, grains are good for the bowl, and so is sweet potato. I worry about bowl cancer with not eating skin off the potatoes or high fibre grains. My diet is very varied even low carb,but I must admit my bowls are not the same since I started this.

Adding spices to cauliflower rice might make it more palatable. My favourite way of eating it is with coconut and lime. I have heard the pre-grated bags are a bit yucky!

Have you tried chia seeds as a source of fibre? Or adding flax seeds to your food?

Bluetit1802 · Jul 23, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
Adding spices to cauliflower rice might make it more palatable. My favourite way of eating it is with coconut and lime. I have heard the pre-grated bags are a bit yucky!

Have you tried chia seeds as a source of fibre? Or adding flax seeds to your food?

I use milled flaxseed and it works wonders. I sprinkle it on most of my food, especially tomatoes and eggs. I also mix some in with my yogurts and berries.

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
Adding spices to cauliflower rice might make it more palatable. My favourite way of eating it is with coconut and lime. I have heard the pre-grated bags are a bit yucky!

Have you tried chia seeds as a source of fibre? Or adding flax seeds to your food?

Actually no I have not tried adding spices to cauliflower, now that I will try. I bought some Flaxseed the other day and used it as a topping for my plain yogurt and berries. I actually like it. I bought the Flaxseed because of youtube. They are making substitute Tortilla crisps for dips... Just add some water to the flaxseed, add some garlic powder, a pinch of rosemary mix it together into a dough ball and chill for a couple of hours, then roll out between baking parchment and oven bake for an hour, wait till they cool and go crisp and then break into pieces. Then choose a dip. I have not tried them yet but will do. I will also try the Chia Seeds

Brunneria · Jul 23, 2017

derry60 said:
Actually no I have not tried adding spices to cauliflower, now that I will try. I bought some Flaxseed the other day and used it as a topping for my plain yogurt and berries. I actually like it. I bought the Flaxseed because of youtube. They are making substitute Tortilla crisps for dips... Just add some water to the flaxseed, add some garlic powder, a pinch of rosemary mix it together into a dough ball and chill for a couple of hours, then roll out between baking parchment and oven bake for an hour, wait till they cool and go crisp and then break into pieces. Then choose a dip. I have not tried them yet but will do. I will also try the Chia Seeds

I have made some of those.
Although I just smooshed the dough mix out with my fingers as flat as it would go before holes started appearing.

Found they were best highly seasoned (herbs, spices, salt) and I needed to remember to always drink a glass of water with them, because they do absorb a lot of moisture in your mouth and stomach, but they are a great substitute for crackers, and they fill the fibre gap really well. Fantastic as cheese crackers.

Snapsy · Jul 23, 2017

Oooooooooh............ I've got both milled chia and milled flaxseed in the larder not being used (used to use them in homemade bread as their 'gelling' factor is an excellent dough improver) and I'm going to go crackers with it later!

Thanks @derry60 and @Brunneria !

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Brunneria said:
I have made some of those.
Although I just smooshed the dough mix out with my fingers as flat as it would go before holes started appearing.

Found they were best highly seasoned (herbs, spices, salt) and I needed to remember to always drink a glass of water with them, because they do absorb a lot of moisture in your mouth and stomach, but they are a great substitute for crackers, and they fill the fibre gap really well. Fantastic as cheese crackers.

Ohhh i am deffo going to try those as cracker now..

derry60 · Jul 23, 2017

Snapsy said:
Oooooooooh............ I've got both milled chia and milled flaxseed in the larder not being used (used to use them in homemade bread as their 'gelling' factor is an excellent dough improver) and I'm going to go crackers with it later!

Thanks @derry60 and @Brunneria !

Me to lol

donnellysdogs · Jul 23, 2017

Barts mediteranean herbs are gorgeous with cauli rice.

Help..Getting bored with veg and dairy

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