• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

HF diet has increased my BG

Sirzy

Sirzy

Well-Known Member
Messages
266
Location
Glasgow
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Insulin
I've been low carbing since I was diagnosed four years ago, but have only recently upped my fat intake considerably, mainly in the form of coconut oil and cream, just to try and increase my energy levels. I'd read that coconut oil/cream contains a lot of medium-chain fatty acids which can convert to energy much more quickly than long or short chain fatty acids, so I started eating quite a lot of it. Then recently, I started getting really tired and wanted to sleep all day, similar to how I was before my diagnosis and I couldn't account for it, as the only thing I'd changed in my diet was the amount of fat I'd been eating. I started testing my blood again (haven't done it for a while due to the cost of strips and because my BG levels are normally really good, 4s and 5s mainly), and was quite shocked to see that they risen a fair bit. This really puzzled me, because, as I said, the only thing that's changed is my fat intake. So I did some searching and found this journal paper http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/4/810.full. I know this might be old news for some people, but it seems like HF diets, particularly those including a lot of saturated fats (such as coconut oil/cream) can increase blood glucose levels significantly in those with type I diabetes.

I can't say for certain that the increase in saturated fat in my diet has caused the increase in BG levels that I'm getting at the moment, but as of now I'll be removing the coconut oil and cream from my diet to see if this has any effect. I just thought this might be of interest or come in useful for anybody else who doesn't seem to be getting lower numbers on a LCHF diet :)
 
Well I'm T2. I would say that maybe it's the interaction between the extra fats and the carbs you have. You say you low carb, how many g carbs do you have a day? I would usually say add fat to replace any carbs you are cutting out of your diet, so if your carbs stayed the same maybe this is the reason?

I recently had 92% fat for 5 days and my BG's went down dramatically,

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sirzy said:
I've been low carbing since I was diagnosed four years ago, but have only recently upped my fat intake considerably, mainly in the form of coconut oil and cream, just to try and increase my energy levels. I'd read that coconut oil/cream contains a lot of medium-chain fatty acids which can convert to energy much more quickly than long or short chain fatty acids, so I started eating quite a lot of it. Then recently, I started getting really tired and wanted to sleep all day, similar to how I was before my diagnosis and I couldn't account for it, as the only thing I'd changed in my diet was the amount of fat I'd been eating. I started testing my blood again (haven't done it for a while due to the cost of strips and because my BG levels are normally really good, 4s and 5s mainly), and was quite shocked to see that they risen a fair bit. This really puzzled me, because, as I said, the only thing that's changed is my fat intake. So I did some searching and found this journal paper http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/4/810.full. I know this might be old news for some people, but it seems like HF diets, particularly those including a lot of saturated fats (such as coconut oil/cream) can increase blood glucose levels significantly in those with type I diabetes.

I can't say for certain that the increase in saturated fat in my diet has caused the increase in BG levels that I'm getting at the moment, but as of now I'll be removing the coconut oil and cream from my diet to see if this has any effect. I just thought this might be of interest or come in useful for anybody else who doesn't seem to be getting lower numbers on a LCHF diet :)
Click to expand...
If you have only recently started adding more fat and not lowered your carbs, this is the reason why! Coconut is especially very good for blood glucose lowering unless you are so different to the rest of us!
Be patient with the extra fat and let your body adapt to the extra fat!

Love your avatars, by the way!
 
Thanks for your replies, love your signature nosher, always nice to talk to a fellow trekkie ;) I'm very low carb (about 20g per day) and have been for the last four years, so I don't think lowering my carb intake will help to be honest. I've been on the coconut oil for a few months now, so I guess if my body hasn't adapted by now, then maybe it's fair to say that saturated fats aren't for me. Although, as I said, I'll be interested to see whether my BGs decrease once I cut them out.
 
Hi,
I'm not a low carber, not a high one either but there are lots of threads on fat and protein and glucose levels in the T1 forums and I think that if you search you will find people from all dietetic universes involved in discussion .
Most people seem to think that if you are taking insulin then you have to take all elements into account .
Here's a simple answer as to the two ways fat can increase glucose levels. If you are on a very low carb diet then the first is most relevant
http://blog.joslin.org/2011/09/why-does-fat-increase-blood-glucose/

In the meantime, I notice that you were taking in a lot of coconut oil, There is significant controversy about the fats in coconut oil. The NZ heart foundation commissioned a report on what the fats in coconut oil were and how they behaved in the body. The report suggests that it isn't really a medium chain fatty acid , therefore research on MCTs cannot be extrapolated to coconut oil.
http://www.heartfoundation.org.nz/uploads/Evidence_paper_coconut_August_2014.pdf
(anecdotally,I remember some years ago when I was first diagnosed, the wiki pages on coconut oil were often being stuffed with peons (edit paeons) to the oil. They used data from poorly conducted trials financed through the coconut oil industry and endorsements from people who sold books about it. There was a huge amount of discussion about it and how to present a neutral view (nothing to do with me, just got interested it following the saga) Now, there articles like this one suggesting that wiki is itself being manipulated http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/coconut-oil-blackballed-by-wikipedia/)
Ultimately you have to decide for yourself.

edit; I was thinking about this whilst preparing strawberries for dinner and then came back and checked because I thought mitochondrial diabetes tended to be progressive but really wasn't that sure .
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/suppl_1/S103.full is 10 years old but suggests that it can be (sadly). There's a huge variability in conditions caused by mitochondrial mutations as I am sure you know
So so I now see two possibilities ( and there may be more!)
1) that the diet isn't working as well as you would like. Change diet and improve things
2) that you need to talk to your doctor about changes in medication strategy.

( it is worth talking to your specialist who hopefully knows his subject)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the links, I came across the top one today as well. I knew that coconut oil was suppose to contain both long and medium chain fatty acids, but I didn't know that there was debate about whether or not the MCTs were actually MCTs. Either way, I'm excluding it from my diet as of today, it's just going on my hair from now on!
 
Although I added "heavy" fats in to my lower carbing (best part of 50 years) this didn't suit me as a T1 (30 years) but not for higher bg's (I was on pump at time and my basals were around 18 with heavier fats" but my and hubby (not diabetic) cholesterol readings really went in wrong direction.

We changed totally to med diet. Loads of olive oil, avocado, olives. Coconut oil only for fry courgettes or fishcakes. Cholesterol went back down to what it was and the hdl increased dramatically.

My basals have dropped to 13 av a day. However, I am no longer on pump having come off it after 5 years. I also have got rid of my pains which my consultant said was prob a cause of needing more insulin but I do wonder if the heavier cream, cheese, loads of coconut affected basals and insulin use upward too.

Our bodies are certainly complex. I look n feel so much better on meditereanean foods n oil though. I could not add in the heavier fats again.
 
Sirzy said:
Thanks for your replies, love your signature nosher, always nice to talk to a fellow trekkie ;) I'm very low carb (about 20g per day) and have been for the last four years, so I don't think lowering my carb intake will help to be honest. I've been on the coconut oil for a few months now, so I guess if my body hasn't adapted by now, then maybe it's fair to say that saturated fats aren't for me. Although, as I said, I'll be interested to see whether my BGs decrease once I cut them out.
Click to expand...

I'm not an HCP, just going on my own experience, to an extent.

I find if I increase my fats a fair amount, my numbers can alter a bit, but my signature shows that my HbA1cs haven't been materially affected. I wouldn't call any variance in an HbA1c of 1 unit to be a material change.

My thoughts would be any bloods scores you see and resultant differential would depend on when you are testing, and whether that has also been exactly the same throughout. My personal feeling is a higher fat consumption smooths the peaks and troughs; smoothing the curve we all see when we eat something. It also delays the peak, from c45 minutes to a but longer. It could be a feature of either, or both of these that you're seeing.

I would be fascinating to learn what your forthcoming HbA1c actually shows, so please do let us know. If you don't want to post the exact score, then raised/lowered/static would be good enough for me.

Good luck with the vampires!
 
The first of Phoenix's links describes perfectly what is happening and it doesn't take much of an extrapolation to see how, if you are eating considerably more fat and little carbs, your insulin requirement will go up.

Most people work on the basis of learning how it affects them and making a decision as to whether they are happy with more insulin or less saturated fat. That's entirely up to you.
 
donnellydogs, I find your experience, as a type I really interesting. I'm returning to a similar diet to you, just olive oil and very little saturated fats. AndBreathe, I see that you're a type 2, so maybe you wouldn't see as much of an effect that type I's seem to get from a high fat diet. I'd be fascinated to find out how many other type 1's have seen similar increases in their BG when following a LCHF diet. As you said, it'll be interesting to see how my next HbA1c has been effected by all this.

"Most people work on the basis of learning how it affects them and making a decision as to whether they are happy with more insulin or less saturated fat. That's entirely up to you."

Makes sense. I think, as I'd started eating coconut oil purely to increase my energy levels, and as it's actually made me more tired by increasing my BGs, I'll not miss it now I've cut it out.
 
@Sirzy I'm a bit confused. You mention the effect of the fats on T1's so I assumed you were T1. It says on your profile though that you are diet only, which would make it appear that you are T2.

If I were you I would certainly miss out the coconut oil as you probably don't need it. :)
 
When I first tried LCHF I took the HF part a bit too literally. Gained a lot of weight. Increased weight raises my BG levels.
Lesson learned, excess calories from whatever source push me over personal fat threshold,
And that causes higher BG levels.
Did you gain weight @Sirzy ?
 
Sirzy said:
donnellydogs, I find your experience, as a type I really interesting. I'm returning to a similar diet to you, just olive oil and very little saturated fats. AndBreathe, I see that you're a type 2, so maybe you wouldn't see as much of an effect that type I's seem to get from a high fat diet. I'd be fascinated to find out how many other type 1's have seen similar increases in their BG when following a LCHF diet. As you said, it'll be interesting to see how my next HbA1c has been effected by all this.
Click to expand...


There's been a few threads recently where type 1's have seen an increase in their insulin usage due to the high-fat element of their diets, here's two that you may want to have a look at:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-if-increased-insulin-resistance-help.79653/

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/increasing-insulin-needs-on-lchf.77319/
 
Sorry zand, I should have made it clear that I'm neither a type I or type II diabetic, although MIDD diabetics tend to be closer to type I's as they don't produce much insulin and generally lose beta cell function at a rapid rate, which tends to mean progressing to insulin around 2-4 years after diagnosis (thanks for posting the link catherinecherub :)). I have wondered if this increase in BGs is the beginning of the end of my natural insulin production, although my specialist seems to think I could cope for as long as 8 years due to my strict BG level control, plus this increase has coincided with the increase of fat in my diet.

Pip, I haven't gained much weight at all, maybe a couple of pounds, but being slim to underweight is another characteristic of MIDD.

Thanks for the thread links noblehead, I'll give these a read over the weekend.

BTW, how do you tag people in a post? Looks like it's something that I should know! :)
 
@Sirzy I should have read up about MIDD before commenting. Sorry.

I reckon it's the fat. Will you let us know when you know please? You've got me interested now.

Oh to tag you type @ followed by the person's name (no space) but you need to leave a space after the name. :) I think lol
 
"edit; I was thinking about this whilst preparing strawberries for dinner and then came back and checked because I thought mitochondrial diabetes tended to be progressive but really wasn't that sure .
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/suppl_1/S103.full is 10 years old but suggests that it can be (sadly). There's a huge variability in conditions caused by mitochondrial mutations as I am sure you know
So so I now see two possibilities ( and there may be more!)
1) that the diet isn't working as well as you would like. Change diet and improve things
2) that you need to talk to your doctor about changes in medication strategy.

( it is worth talking to your specialist who hopefully knows his subject)"

Hey Phoenix, just saw your edit, and yes, it has crossed my mind that maybe my beta cells have lost enough function for me to now be starting medication. I have an appointment with my specialist at the end of September, but unfortunately he's not very clued up on mitochondrial diabetes, so I'll have a fight on my hands if I want the right treatment :(
 
zand said:
@Sirzy I should have read up about MIDD before commenting. Sorry.

I reckon it's the fat. Will you let us know when you know please? You've got me interested now.

Oh to tag you type @ followed by the person's name (no space) but you need to leave a space after the name. :) I think lol
Click to expand...

No problem @zand I can see how the 'diet and exercise only' could be confusing :) Thanks for letting me know how to tag! I'm going to give it a week or two of cutting right back on the fat to see how this effects my BG, if this has no effect then I may have to consider bringing my clinic appointment forward 'cos I can't spend the next two months asleep on the sofa! I'm also going to up my exercise (and possibly start having a regular glass of wine with my dinner) to see if this makes any difference. If not, it looks like I'll be starting on insulin a lot sooner than I was hoping :( I'll let you know how it goes...
 
Sirzy said:
I've been low carbing since I was diagnosed four years ago, but have only recently upped my fat intake considerably, mainly in the form of coconut oil and cream, just to try and increase my energy levels. I'd read that coconut oil/cream contains a lot of medium-chain fatty acids which can convert to energy much more quickly than long or short chain fatty acids, so I started eating quite a lot of it. Then recently, I started getting really tired and wanted to sleep all day, similar to how I was before my diagnosis and I couldn't account for it, as the only thing I'd changed in my diet was the amount of fat I'd been eating. I started testing my blood again (haven't done it for a while due to the cost of strips and because my BG levels are normally really good, 4s and 5s mainly), and was quite shocked to see that they risen a fair bit. This really puzzled me, because, as I said, the only thing that's changed is my fat intake. So I did some searching and found this journal paper http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/4/810.full. I know this might be old news for some people, but it seems like HF diets, particularly those including a lot of saturated fats (such as coconut oil/cream) can increase blood glucose levels significantly in those with type I diabetes.

I can't say for certain that the increase in saturated fat in my diet has caused the increase in BG levels that I'm getting at the moment, but as of now I'll be removing the coconut oil and cream from my diet to see if this has any effect. I just thought this might be of interest or come in useful for anybody else who doesn't seem to be getting lower numbers on a LCHF diet :)
Click to expand...
I am new to this forum, but I agree with what you have said about high fat foods, I have really reduced carb intake, but I have now noticed if I eat cheese or cream my bs increase dramatically, I believe everyone is an individual so therefore not all the same things are going react the same to everyone, I think we can only try different ways to reduce bs, every day is a different challenge for each and every type 1 .
 
Back
Top