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High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Risk

cugila

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People who are touchy.......feign indignation at the slightest thing. Hypocrites, bullies and cowards.
Came across this article, interesting read ?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/173318.php

An extract:
New scientific research has shown that low-carbohydrate high-fat diets, made popular by the likes of the Atkins diet, do not achieve more weight loss than low-fat high-carbohydrate diets. Worryingly, the research, lead by Dr Steven Hunter from the Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast, also shows significantly increased risks of cardiovascular disease for people following low-carbohydrate high-fat diets.
 
Interesting article,

I don't suppose that many people will be surprised by the findings of this research. Think I wil definitely be sticking to my moderate carbs and low-fat diet!

Nigel
 
I'd like to see the actual data. I've seen the Neilson studies, which ran for 44 months , not 8 weeks and the low carb diets had very beneficial effects on lipid profiles.Even in people, who didn't lose much weight.
There's always someone ready to rubbish the low carbers to validate things like the FSA Healthy eating plate.
I'm not going to give up my low carb lifestyle and go on to heavy doses of medication on evidence which hasn't been properly published.
 
I agree totally with Sue, I eat low fat and reduced carbs, never feel hungry......because I want to look after my Cardivascular health. Anyway the study is about dieting, not Diabetics and concentrates on Heart health :?

As for the lipids that Hana mentioned, for me low carbing was a means to an end, trouble was my lipid levels were a disaster during low carbing, I eventually had to go back to my previous low fat together with reduced carbs, that gave me back my previous great lipid levels, which have remained that way. So high fat is certainly NOT for me ! Neither are high carbs as a Diabetic.
 
Likewise, I'm amazed that anyone could conclude anything from 8 weeks study on 24 non-diabetic people! Give me an NHS funded research budget and by tomorrow morning I'll find you 24 people to prove that peanuts kill and Wagon Wheels are an essential part of a balanced diet.
We could certainly find a helluva lot more than 24 members of this forum who have hugely improved all of their heart disease risk factors, but then that's only anecdotal so doesn't really count of course.
As for the arterial stiffening bit, I'd defer to the researcher's compatriot Prof. Bob Stout, a very amenable chap I had some correspondence with a few weeks back. He did a great deal of much more robust research in the 60's and 70's for Queen's University, Belfast which implicated insulin as the direct cause of cholesterol synthesis, arterial lipogenesis and atheroma. Unless higher carb, lower fat diets somehow induce a lot less insulin than they did back then, I'm stickin' to my guns.

fergus
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

We have to keep in mind that huge amounts of money has been invested by firms like Unilever to make sure we stick their mantra...for example the current adverts about Flora pro-active (expensive rubbish) to lower cholesterol...nobody asks how come I have high cholesterol to begin with? What is my body doing to what I am eating? The key is to learn what your body does with what you eat, for diabetics a key thing to understand is how the body actually produces energy - read this (you need to keep at it - John Yudkin has done more to debunk the myths created by the big food companies who influence decision making by government agencies like the FDA and FSA - both agencies have been accused of favouring research that confirm their opinion sort of self fulfilling prophecies), anyway Yudkin did years of research and not just a few weeks like this one clearly meant to reconfirm the prejudices of the FSA.

(Blog link removed)
John Yudkin's obituary - independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-john-yudkin-1593131.html
This one is an interesting one - mnwelldir.org/docs/misc/hidden_h.htm

BY following a low carb high fat diet I have lowered my cholesterol, blood pressure and need less insulin and am in the process of reducing Metaformin intake
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

Who was this funded by?

This study was supported by RRG 5.42 (principal investigator S.J.H.) from the Northern Ireland Department of Health and Social Services Research and Development Office and by an unrestricted research grant from The Sugar Bureau (U.K.)

I'm not sure about others, but I have concerns when I see a study supported by an organisation calling themselves 'The Sugar Bureau'. Who are they?
http://www.sugar-bureau.co.uk/

Back to the study itself, the low-carb diet doesn't look terribly low carb to me.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/58/12/2741.full.pdf

A typical day on the low-carb diet included:
breakfast: hash browns ( 45g )
lunch: wholemeal bread ( 72g -that's about 4 slices(!) )
dinner: boiled potatoes ( 145g -good grief ), boiled carrots, boiled peas and chicken in breadcrumbs

How that managed to be 20% carb energy, 60% fat energy, I'll never know.

Glance at 'Table 4' and we see that the low-carb group were taking in an extra 11% of energy.

Looks like a dodgy study to me.
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

Well, bearing in mind I got to 20 stone, high blood pressure and high cholesterol on a low-fat high carb diet, I'm going to hell in my own way, thank you!

We are all individuals - what works for one may not work for another.

Ad tartaro ad plaustro

I've been dying to trot that one out - it means 'to hell in a hand-cart'! :lol: :lol:

How about a 'smug' emoticon?

Viv 8)
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

Alaska and Viv....... :)

I shouldn't get too worked up over the study. At the time we knew it was sponsored by the Sugar Bureau and was just the usual rubbish studies that were around at that time. Proving absolutely nothing.

BTW, the thread if you hadn't noticed was from December 2009........no idea why somebody should see fit to dredge it up now ? It's very old tired news.....with a small n !

Anyway, those of us around then had it sussed and pretty much didn't think much of it. It was just another news item........just one of the many we see from time to time which are fit only for the bin........ :lol:
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

Maybe, for the sake of accurate up-to-date information on the site, the original post should be removed?

Although, I suppose it has been made clear that the study was biased. I just hope that anyone coming to the site for info reads the whole thread - not just the first post!
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

With cugila's first post in tact, it goes to show how easy it is for research like this to deceive people, doctors, the media and other researchers.

Maybe 'deceive' is a bit strong but it's a correct term on at least one level.

I dare say the full text of this study may only have been made available for public viewing (non-subscription) months after the 'news' went out.

The way research is reported is quite a sad affair (I don't mean reported by us folks).
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

We don't see why any post should, or needs, to be removed.......if the initial one was removed it would leave this thread making no sense at all. What would be the point of that ?

It was, as stated, a News item posted without comment a long time ago. Much the same as what takes place now. At the time we didn't have a separate section for those sort of things. We now do so it is going to be moved there. That's the place for it.

It's a slippery slope if we delete a reported News item just because some of us don't agree with what it says. There may be those who do agree, they too have a voice on this Forum and are entitled to air their views.

ALL types of Diabetic control are discussed here.......there isn't just 'one way' as on some other websites. If what people do works well for them, whatever that way may be then they should be allowed an opinion even if others disagree as to how it can be achieved. Freedom of choice, be it right or wrong in the eyes of others.

That's why this Forum is so successful.........

Forum Monitors
 
Re: High-fat Low-carb Diets Could Mean Significant Heart Ris

I don't want to start an acrimonius discussion but I do think that some of the statements made earlier shouldn't pass unchallenged . I've left a comment about this study in particular to the end as I think some of the principles are more important

1) I don't believe it is a valid assumption to think that a funding source alters the data., though I accept that negative results are not always published or published in obscure journals. Funding is normally accepted by universities with the caveat that the funding source has no input into the course of the study. It is inevitable that companies are going to fund areas of research that may produce results that support their products.*.(Atkins foundation ring a bell ?) That is why sponsors and other interests are disclosed very clearly. Academics have lost university posts and had papers withdrawn when interests hav been found not to be transparent.

Any critique should be based upon methodology. Otherwise it is tantamount to accusing the researchers of professional malpractice ie: explicit fraud. This is libelous.
Of course on occasion it is thought that fraud has taken place, think Cyril Burt, Andrew Wakefield. It destroys a career or reputation when discovered.
One safeguard is that protocols for the study are produced, registered and often published in advance of the final paper. Trials are also evaluated by ethics commitees.
(see http://www.controlled-trials.com/ISRCTN85769730) for this particular one.
The paper when published is subject to peer review, this prior documentation is part of the review process. In this case the Journal was Diabetes, a reputable journal.
Some papers are published in journals that the researchers themselves are on the editorial board , I personally find this a potential problem .

2) Any research adds to the body of literature. It may support existing literature (as the authors of this paper claim.) It may become even become a part of scientific 'knowledge' if other researchers produce findings that support it . On the other hand it may be falsified. This is how the scientific method works. As yet this study has only one citation and that is part of a review. It is a little soon for any studies to be published using the findings as an hypothesis.

3) The inability of other researchers to validate Yudkins hypothesis on sugar and heart disease was a reason that he lost influence in the UK.
Yudkin was taken seriously and he had a lot of support,both in the popular press and from some cardiologists. Research by scientists here and elsewhere however didn't appear to support his views.
His views were considered important enough that a working party of the Medical research council was set up to investigate the relationship between sugar and vascular disease. Amongst other studies they commisioned one by Burns Cox and Richard Doll . This 'exactly' replicated Yudkin's which linked heart disease with a very much higher intake of sugar. It didn't produce the same results .
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 5-0079.pdf
After evaluating the evidence, the working party concluded ' the evidence in favour of a high sugar intake as a major factor in the development of myocardial infarction is extremely slender.'
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/2/81.full

4) The energy intake varying in the 2 arms of this study is a result of randomisation. (it actually would be stranger if they were the same) The low carb had a slightly greater energy intake than the low fat arm. However the purpose of the study was to investigate the effects on various markers after specific diets. It was not a trial to find which arm produced the largest loss.
Diet was individualised (retaining the same proportions) to produce a weight loss of 0.5kg a week. Those randomised to the low carb arm were slightly heavier, thus were able to take in more calories whilst losing the required amount of weight ...if they had eaten exactly the same amount of calories their weight loss would have been higher.
The low carb arm received 20% of energy from carbs, this amounted to an average of about 95g. The amount of carbs in the example day described adds up to this level. (hash brown would be about 12.4g, bread 28.2g, potatoes 30g , peas 7g, carrots 4g =81.6g carb, the remaining carbs would come from the breadcrumbs, gravy granules etc )
 
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