High reading of 181, 2 hours after meal..

[G0ldengirl68]

..that had only 27 carbs?? I saw a dietician just to see what they would tell me about eating as I was getting super lethargic. I haven't been on Metformin (only for first 2 weeks). She said with the number I was logging in my diary, I should shoot for 30g per meal so I did, didn't go over so far.

I can't figure out why I got such a spike from a meal I had only eatin 27 carbs. Feedback welcome? I'm thinking of going back on the Metformin because otherwise, my body felt starved.

here's what I ate, I'd been on the run, laundry errands downtown, came home feeling ravenous so just pulled this stuff out of the fridge, and my number went up to 181 mg/dl ;( 2 hours after first bite:

 

[Mike d]

Two issues ... what were you at first bite and don't you already have a conversion chart? You're in mmol territory remember

 

[G0ldengirl68]

I didn't check before I ate. I was to check two times a day, fasting BG (after wakeup in a.m.) and 2 hours after 1st bite of 1 meal. I know others do their's differently but I believed the dietician. Also, I don't get your second statement. I know I'm in the UK, so yes I have a conversion chart, so I'm supposed to only use your mmol/l #?

 

[Mike d]

mmol given most members are in the UK or countries that use the same measurements like yours truly Just makes it easier.

No, you test before each meal (first bite) then at two hours. Your dietician is wrong on that matter.

You could have been over 8 mmol at first bite then 10 mmol at 2 hours. Now you don't know

 

[VashtiB]

Okay a couple of things,

the first thing is that most of us type 2s cope with carbs better later in the day. Try to keep breakfasts as low carb as possible. Secondly the reading before would let you kn ow whether it was this meal or dawn phenomena or the food from the previous day. So if the reading before was high I would then suggest either no breakfast or very low carb breakfast followed by a gentle walk. If the reading before was okay then your body can't tolerate that many carbs early in the day.

Good luck.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

I can't understand why I would be at 8 if I had a carb free breakfast which is why I didn't bother to test again. My wakeup fast was at 6 a.m. and it was 129 again which was way higher than the numbers I was getting for the last week or so. I'm sure I'm missing something in "the way it all works" but it's not making sense to me to have a high bg when I didn't indulge in an overload of carbs. My breakfast was, 1 Cup of Coffee mixed half and half with Chicory Root, a non-caffeine substitute plant. Then I drank my Turmeric and Ginger juice, then about a 2 hours after I was up, I had 2 eggs, half an avocada, diced tomatoes w/green chilis, and .5 ounce of Monterey Jack cheese.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Okay a couple of things,

the first thing is that most of us type 2s cope with carbs better later in the day. Try to keep breakfasts as low carb as possible. Secondly the reading before would let you kn ow whether it was this meal or dawn phenomena or the food from the previous day. So if the reading before was high I would then suggest either no breakfast or very low carb breakfast followed by a gentle walk. If the reading before was okay then your body can't tolerate that many carbs early in the day.

Good luck.

The breakfast I just listed was about 9:30, then I didn't eat the "lunch" until between 1 and 2pm. I didn't know foods from previous day would still effect since the fasting for right at about 12 hours. I'll test before I eat then, and 2 hours after 1st bite. The gentle walk is easy as I take my little dog out often. I usually do my own workout after dinner and I've been having zero snacks after dinner that's by 6pm. Breakfast below, but I realize now you can't help me figure since I didn't do a before "stick". I did when I first got up at 6a.m. and it was high at 129, like I said.

 

[Mike d]

You're not following the logic. I expressly said you COULD have been at 8. Equally you could have been at 7. You don't know because you didn't check. Stick to the formula as outlined in your last post.

 

[Goonergal]

Agree with Mike. You need to know what your pre-meal starting point was.

And it may be that 27g carbs in one meal is more than your body can handle. It would be for me - I eat way less than that in a day (yesterday was 6.5g total, but I am at the extreme end of things).

 

[Marie 2]

A few things,

Some people get DP or what we call dawn phenomenon, and that can vary daily. It's a release of hormones that can cause BG levels to go up in the early hours of the morning while we are sleeping. So one morning you could wake up being at 8 and another at 6. If you eat when you are at an 8, obviously your meal will make you go higher than if you started at a 6. so it can be very helpful to test before you eat.

Another thing mentioned about breakfast carbs causing higher numbers. This is still related to DP or FOTF. Both of these are a release of hormones, FOTF is after you put your feet on the floor. Both of these also have a tendency to make you more insulin resistant for a few hours each morning.

Metformin helps block the release of glucose by the liver and helps make you less insulin resistant. So hence you might be noticing a difference being off of it.

But I also want to make sure you are aware that if things don't make sense you could end up being a type 1 instead of a type 2. 35% of type 1's are misdiagnosed as a type 2 at first and drugs and diet changes can work initially because you are still making insulin for a little while as it slowly decreases over time. Plus 50% of type 1's are diagnosed after the age of 30. Most diabetics of course are type 2's. But if diet changes etc stop working then keep in mind you could be a type 1.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

@G0ldengirl68 how frustrating.
As others have mentioned, it is hard to know what caused the spikes when you don't know your starting point.

In addition to Dawn Phenomenon and food there are many things that can affect your blood sugars such as stress, illness, drugs exercise, a good night sleep, a bad night sleep, .. This graphic lists 42 things. I suspect there are more.
ATTACH=full]47753[/ATTACH]

As for which units to describe on this site, use whatever you feel comfortable with. There are conversion tables that we can use to translate if we don't recognise your numbers. Don't feel you need to be forced into reporting in a way that you find difficult. Whist this site is based in the UK (where mmol/l are used), many people are based in other countries that use the other units.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

A few things,

Some people get DP or what we call dawn phenomenon, and that can vary daily. It's a release of hormones that can cause BG levels to go up in the early hours of the morning while we are sleeping. So one morning you could wake up being at 8 and another at 6. If you eat when you are at an 8, obviously your meal will make you go higher than if you started at a 6. so it can be very helpful to test before you eat.

Another thing mentioned about breakfast carbs causing higher numbers. This is still related to DP or FOTF. Both of these are a release of hormones, FOTF is after you put your feet on the floor. Both of these also have a tendency to make you more insulin resistant for a few hours each morning.

Metformin helps block the release of insulin by the liver and helps make you less insulin resistant. So hence you might be noticing a difference being off of it.

But I also want to make sure you are aware that if things don't make sense you could end up being a type 1 instead of a type 2. 35% of type 1's are misdiagnosed as a type 2 at first and drugs and diet changes can work initially because you are still making insulin for a little while as it slowly decreases over time. Plus 50% of type 1's are diagnosed after the age of 30. Most diabetics of course are type 2's. But if diet changes etc stop working then keep in mind you could be a type 1.

just a little typo. I think you meant that Metformin blocks glucose release from the liver

 

[oldgreymare]

Have you recently had similar meals but without seeing so much of a rise? As others have said, it is hard to know if this is a "big" increase without knowing your pre-meal BG. Also if you have been lowering your carb intake significantly be aware that protein breaks down to some BG as well, equivalent to approximately 50% the same intake of carb. This is very noticeable for me. So your above breakfast for me would require insulin to treat 22gm of carb + 18/2 gm of protein - i.e., 31gm carb equivalent

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Agree with Mike. You need to know what your pre-meal starting point was.

And it may be that 27g carbs in one meal is more than your body can handle. It would be for me - I eat way less than that in a day (yesterday was 6.5g total, but I am at the extreme end of things).

I did go from 30, 33g carbs a day to much higher so this makes sense to me. The dietician, in all fairness to her, said "see how I do upping my carbs". I'd say I found out ;(

I'll cut them back to the way I got the good numbers, test right before my meals, and 2 hours after first bite. Yesterday my total carbs were 62g, and the day before, 85g.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Have you recently had similar meals but without seeing so much of a rise? As others have said, it is hard to know if this is a "big" increase without knowing your pre-meal BG. Also if you have been lowering your carb intake significantly be aware that protein breaks down to some BG as well, equivalent to approximately 50% the same intake of carb. This is very noticeable for me. So your above breakfast for me would require insulin to treat 22gm of carb + 18/2 gm of protein - i.e., 31gm carb equivalent

When I was doing good for 3 weeks, yes, similar each day, but not the last 2-3 days. I was told to try raising my carb intake. The dietician I was referred to suggested my carbs were too low. I think I listened to her because my numbers weren't dropping fast enough to my liking. I went from 33g at the most to as much as 85g in just 2 days. Friday a.m. I felt ok until just after breakfast, had a wakeup/fasting count earlier of 141 mg/dl. After a non carb breakfast I had what I could only describe as a hypoglycemia episode but hadn't had one since I was a child. Bad-ass headache and shakes. Took myself to the emergency room as I couldn't figure what happened. I'm new to all this and torn between the different opinions.

I'm not complaining about the opinions, it's just that I have to realize everyone is different and doctors/dieticians are more "one size fits all" because that's what their taught, maybe? Oh, at the hospital I got a high blood pressure count, which I know my blood pressure is one thing I can say has always been good. It was 170/ and I can't remember the bottom number but the nurse said it was through the roof. I took the Metformin out of the drawer lastnight and took one (extended release). I wanted to do this without meds but I'll try it again since I'm not quite ready to croak, like we have a choice of when we go.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

A few things,

Some people get DP or what we call dawn phenomenon, and that can vary daily. It's a release of hormones that can cause BG levels to go up in the early hours of the morning while we are sleeping. So one morning you could wake up being at 8 and another at 6. If you eat when you are at an 8, obviously your meal will make you go higher than if you started at a 6. so it can be very helpful to test before you eat.

Another thing mentioned about breakfast carbs causing higher numbers. This is still related to DP or FOTF. Both of these are a release of hormones, FOTF is after you put your feet on the floor. Both of these also have a tendency to make you more insulin resistant for a few hours each morning.

Metformin helps block the release of glucose by the liver and helps make you less insulin resistant. So hence you might be noticing a difference being off of it.

But I also want to make sure you are aware that if things don't make sense you could end up being a type 1 instead of a type 2. 35% of type 1's are misdiagnosed as a type 2 at first and drugs and diet changes can work initially because you are still making insulin for a little while as it slowly decreases over time. Plus 50% of type 1's are diagnosed after the age of 30. Most diabetics of course are type 2's. But if diet changes etc stop working then keep in mind you could be a type 1.

Now that's news for me Marie and so appreciate it. If I wakeup with a high count, like my US 141mg/dl, and any carbs I eat after will just add to that? I was assuming the number eventually goes down. I wake up at 6 or so, and never eat until between 9 and 10a.m.

I started the Metformin again last night as prescribed, I hope I'm doing the right thing but I feel if I can't get my foods (numbers) lined up right, I shouldn't be playing with a loaded gun ;( I appreciate your input so much, everyone's really,

 

[G0ldengirl68]

@G0ldengirl68 how frustrating.
As others have mentioned, it is hard to know what caused the spikes when you don't know your starting point.

In addition to Dawn Phenomenon and food there are many things that can affect your blood sugars such as stress, illness, drugs exercise, a good night sleep, a bad night sleep, .. This graphic lists 42 things. I suspect there are more.
ATTACH=full]47753[/ATTACH]

As for which units to describe on this site, use whatever you feel comfortable with. There are conversion tables that we can use to translate if we don't recognise your numbers. Don't feel you need to be forced into reporting in a way that you find difficult. Whist this site is based in the UK (where mmol/l are used), many people are based in other countries that use the other units.

Thanks @In Response, I admit I was getting a bit timid about just entering the "types" of numbers I get on my monitor, and am used to. I do have a good conversion table I like to refer to when I get a high number like the 181mg/dl I got at 2:40 yesterday. That scared me. My memory is not good lately and am hoping that improves. Just short-term memory like just now I forgot if I even mentioned the number in my original post. I think my stress level goes off the chart sometimes, and when I exercise I could relax a bit on the harder things I do and just walk for now.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

One more question though, if the number stays the same (the wakeup number) then why would I have to test again before I eat breakfast? I don't eat for a few hours after I get up, I test, then I have coffee (2 cups/half chicory root so half decaf). Play on my computer, and eat about 9-10ish. So I'm asking to make sure that if I test on wakeup, with that number remain the same until I eat again?

Oh, and usually, turmeric/ginger juice, I drink for inflammation. But no sweetner, just chug it down.

 

[oldgreymare]

When I was doing good for 3 weeks, yes, similar each day, but not the last 2-3 days. I was told to try raising my carb intake. The dietician I was referred to suggested my carbs were too low. I think I listened to her because my numbers weren't dropping fast enough to my liking. I went from 33g at the most to as much as 85g in just 2 days. Friday a.m. I felt ok until just after breakfast, had a wakeup/fasting count earlier of 141 mg/dl. After a non carb breakfast I had what I could only describe as a hypoglycemia episode but hadn't had one since I was a child. Bad-ass headache and shakes. Took myself to the emergency room as I couldn't figure what happened. I'm new to all this and torn between the different opinions.

I'm not complaining about the opinions, it's just that I have to realize everyone is different and doctors/dieticians are more "one size fits all" because that's what their taught, maybe? Oh, at the hospital I got a high blood pressure count, which I know my blood pressure is one thing I can say has always been good. It was 170/ and I can't remember the bottom number but the nurse said it was through the roof. I took the Metformin out of the drawer lastnight and took one (extended release). I wanted to do this without meds but I'll try it again since I'm not quite ready to croak, like we have a choice of when we go.

Are you prescribed a BG meter and how many strips per month? Ideally you need enough strips to test BG levels between 6-8 times a day. This is the minimum tech you will need to have in order to take 'ownership' of your diabetes. But these are not always provided under the UK NHS for Type 2s. If you think you are going hypo then immediately Test! Do note the false hypo syndrome - if you have been running high BGs, reducing to normal safe levels may make you feel hypo. You only know for sure by testing. Lower carb definitely helps stopping yoyo-ing between extreme swings of hyper and hypo BGs.

Sadly a large amount of current nutritional advice may not be accurate for diabetics in particular. Carbs are NOT essential nutrients! So it is up to you by trial and error to figure what is the optimal combination of protein, fat and carb (if any) that suits both your metabolism and importantly also your lifestyle. Metformin XR is a great very safe drug that may have additional off label anti inflammatory / anti carcinogenic impact if you can tolerate it. This website is an excellent resource.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Are you prescribed a BG meter and how many strips per month? Ideally you need enough strips to test BG levels between 6-8 times a day. This is the minimum tech you will need to have in order to take 'ownership' of your diabetes. But these are not always provided under the UK NHS for Type 2s. If you think you are going hypo then immediately Test! Do note the false hypo syndrome - if you have been running high BGs, reducing to normal safe levels may make you feel hypo. You only know for sure by testing. Lower carb definitely helps stopping yoyo-ing between extreme swings of hyper and hypo BGs.

Sadly a large amount of current nutritional advice may not be accurate for diabetics in particular. Carbs are NOT essential nutrients! So it is up to you by trial and error to figure what is the optimal combination of protein, fat and carb (if any) that suits both your metabolism and importantly also your lifestyle. Metformin XR is a great very safe drug that may have additional off label anti inflammatory / anti carcinogenic impact if you can tolerate it. This website is an excellent resource.

I bought my own, because insurance wouldn't cover anything but the meter. I got this one, and the extra lancets and strips aren't too high for me to refill. The kit came with 100 of each. That 8 times a day is just until I get it straight I hope. Weed out anything that spikes my BG. I just started the anti-inflammatory "foods" for a bit of arthritis I'm getting. I am better since I started the juice but I also exercise more.

Will do on the hypo thing. I get the slightest bit of it before meals, but nothing like what I had when I went to emergency. I ordered a BP Cuff that should be here today. It may not be exact but could put my mind at ease on my BP. I'll stick with the Metformin. I'd taken it since the 20th when I was diagnosed, but kept having headaches and feeling really tired. I was confused then because the symptoms of Diabetes 2 can also have those symptoms. I also had stomach upset, milder nausea, and "other" slight issues. I didn't feel good period.

I knew and couldn't find anything on the headache and shakes I had that morning so it is good to learn about the possibility of it being "false hypo syndrome". That makes total sense of what happened if that was it. I did change, same day kind of thing.

I was doing very good, then the dietician's info, and I thought that would help me do even better. I'll stick to what I had started from what I learned here, and am learning,