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High saturated fat in blood triggers damage to beta cells

lucylocket61 said:
thanks. I cant peel back the labels though, on the linked website.
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Which browser, which OS?
Works for me in Chrome on Windows 7.
Haven't tried it yet on Android.
Obviously all the windows reveal that palm oil is used in the product.
 
lucylocket61 said:
same as you, chrome on windows 7 on a laptop
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Just checked again.
Left mouse click reveals the message.
Were you trying to drag the label?
 
LittleGreyCat said:
Just checked again.
Left mouse click reveals the message.
Were you trying to drag the label?
Click to expand...
cant do it, never mind, I had better stop this digression and focus on the thread properly. I am still trying to decipher the link from @Oldvatr and translate it into simple terms I understand lol.
 
wiflib said:
Blast!



What a load of b*ll*cks...is my official comment.
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When I used that term some while ago I got a severe dressing down so be warned, even though it's been proven in a court of law not to be swear word, I just hope you don't get severely moderated.
 
JohnEGreen said:
When I used that term some while ago I got a severe dressing down so be warned, even though it's been proven in a court of law not to be swear word, I just hope you don't get severely moderated.
Click to expand...

I can’t use blast?

It has been pointed out to me by a mod in the past but the mod changed the four letter word I used with a carefully placed asterisk.
 
A LCHF diet can actually be lower in fat than a standard processed food diet because it eliminates all the ghastly seed oils:

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2017/...e-lower-in-fat-than-a-standard-american-diet/

There is also a process known as 'de novo lipogenesis' - the fat in blood doesn't come just from ingested fat but from carbohydrates: "The enzymatic pathway for converting dietary carbohydrate (CHO) into fat, or de novo lipogenesis (DNL), is present in humans, whereas the capacity to convert fats into CHO does not exist."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049514001115
 
Indy51 said:
"The enzymatic pathway for converting dietary carbohydrate (CHO) into fat, or de novo lipogenesis (DNL), is present in humans, whereas the capacity to convert fats into CHO does not exist."
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The above statement is true, but fat in the form of lipids can be turned into glucose by gluconeogenesis so can lead to an increase in bgl levels. This is how stored lipid fat can be converted for use by the brain and nervous system during ketosis
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-fats-turned-glycogen-muscle-11127.html
(not a site I would normally use, but it seems to hang together).
 
They obviously are lying in France when they allege they feed geese with grain to get their delicacy of fatty livers! They obviously rather secretly feed them saturated fat! D.
 
britishpub said:
I do wonder why Doctors have to train for so long, when it appears from numerous posts on this forum that the workings of the human body is so simple.
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They have to train for so long as they have to cover an amazing number of conditions. They are by definition generalists and inevitably have limited in-depth knowledge in many areas. I also understand they have little training in nutrition. metabolism etc? I would counter your comment by saying that we hear so often from the medical experts that eating sat fat causes dangerous arterial deposits when in fact the metabolic process for fats is very complex.
 
I get the impression that @britishpub was extracting the pith a little with that comment.
 
lindisfel said:
They obviously are lying in France when they allege they feed geese with grain to get their delicacy of fatty livers! They obviously rather secretly feed them saturated fat! D.
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The process is covered by a patent, and licensed to producers. The actual feed used is a secret, but is believed to be corn boiled in fat, so is a mixture of the two. The process is called gavage.
 

I'm no scientist - but from everything else I have read, what is being stated here seems to be entirely consistent with the shoddy science previously espoused for the fat is bad hypothesis. my comments in red

"Type 2 diabetes is primarily associated with beta-cell failure, insulin resistance and elevated hepatic glucose production. I believe T2 diabetes is primarily associated with hugely elevated levels of insulin production coming from an inability to process modern foods which cause inflated glucose responses compared to natural foods.

The islet beta-cell is specialized for the synthesis, storage and secretion of insulin. Beta-cell failure is characterized by the inability of the beta-cell to secrete sufficient insulin in response to glucose, which ultimately results in hyperglycemia- the clinical hallmark of Type 2 diabetes. I believe that beta cell failure is a function of asking it to continue to produce huge levels of insulin because of the resistance that comes from having too much circulating insulin . The clinical hall mark for T2 diabetes is simply wrong. The correct clinical hallmark should be increasing circulating insulin which precedes current actual T2 diagnosis by about 10-15 years.

Impairment in glucose sensing contributes to beta-cell dysfunction. The facilitative glucose transporter, GLUT-2, and glucose phosphorylating enzyme, glucokinase, are key for glucose sensing of the pancreatic beta-cell, the initial event in the pathway for glucose-stimulated insulin secretion.

There is an increase in dietary fat intake, particularly saturated fat, in both the developing and Westernized world, which predisposes individuals to become obese and to potentially develop insulin resistance, beta-cell dysfunction and Type 2 diabetes. This is pure speculation - there is no particular evidence I have seen that it is dietary fat intake that predisposes one to become obese - instead there is evidence that too much circulating insulin caused by too much refined carbohydrate and industrial seed oils leads to disregulated appetite and obesity - the actual diet involved in doing this is actually not a high " saturated " fat diet - it is a "high carb, high fat" diet comprising lots of refined carbohydrates cooked in lots of industrial seed oils eaten to excess.


A high fat diet is known to reduce both GLUT-2 and glucokinase expression thereby impairing glucose-stimulated insulin secretion. How did they define a " high fat" diet - I doubt that it was by feeding the subject high quality meats that happen to be high in saturated fat coupled with good quality fresh vegetables.

Furthermore, a high fat diet and specific free fatty acids, induces oxidative stress and apoptosis which reduces beta-cell mass and compromises beta-cell function.

All the stuff I have read suggests that oxidative stress is actually the same thing they are talking about in relation to heart disease - ie the contents of one's blood stream - leading to the fat/ heart hypothesis and the same rubbish about LDL cholesterol . A high fat diet reliably REDUCES triglycerides - ( fat ) in the blood stream

Glucose sensing is the initial event of glucose-stimulated insulin secretion therefore it is imperative to maintain adequate expression levels of GLUT-2 and GK for ensuring normal beta-cell function. The development of pharmaceutical agents that improve glucose-stimulated insulin secretion may replenish expression of these glucose sensing genes after their attenuation by high fat feeding. Hmm so the response to having too much insulin in circulation is to find drugs that will cause you to secrete even more insulin - nice one. - entirely indicative of the fact that scientists are being blinded by their masters into looking for a pharmaceutical solution to everything as opposed to going back to the root cause ( defined by them as "high fat feeding" and by me as ( high carb, high fat, highly processed food feeding)

Now consider what happens when you adopt a low carb, high fat diet of natural foods thus getting rid of refined carbs and industrial seed oils

Your glucose levels come down, your circulating insulin levels come down. The level of triglycerides ( fat in the blood stream) comes down, your level of HDL - the good cholesterol goes up. Your level of inflammation all over your body comes down,(GGT is a good marker for this) your risk of heart attack comes down. All of these are known and reliably charted in anyone following a proper real foods low carb diet.

In those circumstances - the idea that somehow this process is having a deleterious effect on beta -cell function compared with the positive benefits it is creating on everything else is bizarre and shows how misleading this " science" is .

It is becoming very clear to me that for me personally there are a few basic markers I want to track that indicate my underlying state of metabolic health .

Hba1C - coupled with relatively steady individual glucose readings,
Low fasting insulin
High HDL
Low Triglycerides
Low GGT

I KNOW I can get all of these through a natural foods, low carb diet which includes fatty meat, diary, and fatty fish to taste.

From an obesity standpoint I am looking to get my waist to be less than 50% of my height) ( not quite there yet) all of the other markers are now well into " normal " ranges.

I will take my own personal markers over this type of " scientific" report any day of the week, not least because I have the blood tests that prove it.





 
Oldvatr said:
The process is covered by a patent, and licensed to producers. The actual feed used is a secret, but is believed to be corn boiled in fat, so is a mixture of the two. The process is called gavage.
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I would be amazed if the fat they are using to boil the corn in is good quality butter !
 
Guzzler said:
Why the bold/larger font? It is considered 'Shouting' in print.
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It's simply because the text has been copied and pasted from a different webpage. I've noticed it happen to me.
Even if it weren't, the poster could have poor sight.
Hope that helps for when you next encounter this.
Geoff
 
librarising said:
It's simply because the text has been copied and pasted from a different webpage. I've noticed it happen to me.
Even if it weren't, the poster could have poor sight.
Hope that helps for when you next encounter this.
Geoff
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Thank you for kindly defending me against that post. The quotes were indeed pasted from elsewhere and I do indeed have cataracts. Hence I use emboldening and underlining to pick out the bits I am looking for from what is otherwise one massive blur. It is not nice to be picked on for one's disability.
 
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