HOME BLOOD GLUCOSE TEST RESULTS GOOD BUT SYMPTOMS STILL BAD

[CHRISXX]

HELLO - I SHOULD HAVE POSTED THE MESSAGE BELOW AS A NEW THREAD TO TRY AND GET THE ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS BUT I POSTED EARLIER TODAY IT AS A REPLY IN ANOTHER THREAD BY MISTAKE - SORRY:


Hello All,

I have been recently diagnosed with type 2 Diabetes [in January] and taking Metformin - at the diagnosis point my blood tests showed 83 and 9.7%.

When I was advised that eating a lot of carbohydrates was a bad thing for diabetics I worked out that I had been consuming between about 380g and 500g of carbohydrates per day for many years - most of that was food but quite a lot was from sachets of Latte coffee made with skimmed milk which constituted probably 150g per day.

After changing my diet to low carbohydrate meals and not having the latte coffees for about 5 weeks and then using a glucose test meter for the following 2 weeks my everyday Home test blood glucose levels have averaged about 6 [% ?] morning and night time.

I obviously realise that I am not `cured` of Diabetes even though these blood glucose test results seem good / seem to be within the same range as people who do not have diabetes.

However I am still waking up very dehydrated I then have to drink lots of water to re-hydrate so I am urinating very frequently - should theses symptoms have reduced because of these seemingly `normal` blood glucose test levels ?

I thought that the frequent urination was to flush excess glucose out of our bodies but don`t my good blood glucose test results show that I don`t have an excess of glucose in my blood / body ?

I am not due for further Blood tests at a Blood test clinic until mid May and not due to see my Diabetes specialist Doctor until those results are available so I cannot ask my Doctor about this until then.

Meanwhile I would appreciate any advice from other type 2 Diabetics Members please.

My Regards, Chris

 

[Antje77]

my everyday Home test blood glucose levels have averaged about 6 [% ?] morning and night time.

Do you only test morning and nighttime?
Testing right before meals and two hours later might give you some more insights on what is happening.

 

[Mrs HJG]

Hi @CHRISXX Sounds like you are doing well already. I was diagnosed mid-December and am on Metformin too, and for me the reduced carbs and a bit more exercise seems to be doing the trick - my next HbA1c is next week, so we'll see! My levels were really high 129.5/14% at diagnosis and it did take a bit of time to not feel dehydrated and my skin to stop feeling like paper.

This page is good for the BG levels https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html. the % is not the same as the levels on a glucometer. Test like @Antje77 says otherwise the readings won't mean as much. An average of 7 mmol/mol on the meter over 3 months would be 6% on the HbA1c, but unless you have a CGM like a Libre you won't know all your ups and downs. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-to-blood-sugar-level-converter.html

If you start testing more, you will learn what things to avoid and what is OK for you.

 

[CHRISXX]

Do you only test morning and nighttime?
Testing right before meals and two hours later might give you some more insights on what is happening.

Hello Antje77,

Thanks for your reply.

I was told by a friend who is also a type 2 Diabetic that a `Fasting Blood Glucose test` is a good test to do which is why I have been testing 15 or 16 hours after my previous days dinner / evening meal in mid morning and then again at night about 2 hours after my dinner / evening meal.

Is there a reason why my blood glucose level would be significantly different in the evening before my only meal of each 24 hours than a test result from mid morning / 15 or 16 hours after my previous evening meal ?

Just in case any Member queries why I am eating only once every 24 hours I have done this for about the last 50 years - I got used to eating just a dinner / evening meal when I was young because I would be going out to work early in the mornings - not eating a lunch and then eating dinner when I came home from work in the evening.

I have not changed to just one meal a day because of my Diabetes and I am not on a `diet` / weight loss regime although I do expect to lose weight because of the food that I am now eating.

Chris

 

[CHRISXX]

Hello Mrs HJG,

Thanks for your reply.

I am definitely not trying to suggest that `I know it all` about my Diabetes or I would not have joined this excellent Forum - but I know that the meals that I have chosen to change my diet will almost certainly not affect my Blood glucose level much because they are almost all totally `Carb Free`.

I am eating only meals like:

Lean roast Gammon meat slices and salad - Chicken breasts without skin with salad - Omelette with Bacon medallions or salad - Steak with salad.

Although those choices will probably become boring when eaten every week they are good food so I cannot complain that I am having to eat things that I don`t enjoy.

As I wrote in my reply to Member Antje77 the mid morning `fasting Blood glucose test` was recommended to me by a friend who was told to do that by his Diabetes Doctor - is this actually wrong advice ?

Chris

 

[Mrs HJG]

As I wrote in my reply to Member Antje77 the mid morning Blood glucose test was recommended to me by a friend who was told to do that by his Diabetes Doctor - is this actually wrong advice

I definitely wouldn't claim to know much (I've only been at this for 3 months and learning everyday), and your meals sound lovely to me! If you read round the forum, lots of folks find their blood glucose can rise from first thing in the morning until they eat 'breakfast' at whatever time that is; mine, I experimented a few weeks ago, rises from about 4.8 to 5.2 with just getting up and pottering about a bit before taking a reading before I eat maybe a half hour later, and if I get up shower dry my hair etc before breakfast it goes up another 0.4 to 5.8. I usually test just before eating breakfast rather than on rising, but I found it interesting to know what activity did to my BG.

You seem to be in a good routine, so maybe it might be worth testing a bit more frequently even if only for a few days (just for interest, and maybe to compare if things start to change or you get poorly), then going back to on waking, before and 2hrs after eating, and then just before bed (unless you eat late and the 2hrs after is near enough (I'd love to go to bed at 8.30!). If more testing doesn't tell you anything, because you are only eating the one meal a day, then you make the call.

You may surprise yourself with really low early morning and bedtime levels

 

[Oldvatr]

I found that my pre meal reading in the evening (OMAD) were close to my fasting blood sugars, so I changed and use the pre meal as a baseline, and check again at 2hrs and 4 hrs post meal. These two latter readings give me good coverage on simple carbs and sugars (2hrs) and proteins with fat (4 hrs) These combined with the pre give me a daily average that I can track and still associate with my food diary so I can immediately decide if a new meal is good or bad for me.

Even after 5 weeks, you will probably still be emptying your liver sugar stores (google liver dump / dawn phenomenon) especially if daily carbs is lowish to medium carb (50 to 120 gm/day). The fasting level is generally the last to drop. PS it sems that we only have sweetpea syndrome when bgl levels are above 10 mmol/l.

 

[CHRISXX]

I definitely wouldn't claim to know much (I've only been at this for 3 months and learning everyday), and your meals sound lovely to me! If you read round the forum, lots of folks find their blood glucose can rise from first thing in the morning until they eat 'breakfast' at whatever time that is; mine, I experimented a few weeks ago, rises from about 4.8 to 5.2 with just getting up and pottering about a bit before taking a reading before I eat maybe a half hour later, and if I get up shower dry my hair etc before breakfast it goes up another 0.4 to 5.8. I usually test just before eating breakfast rather than on rising, but I found it interesting to know what activity did to my BG.

You seem to be in a good routine, so maybe it might be worth testing a bit more frequently even if only for a few days (just for interest, and maybe to compare if things start to change or you get poorly), then going back to on waking, before and 2hrs after eating, and then just before bed (unless you eat late and the 2hrs after is near enough (I'd love to go to bed at 8.30!). If more testing doesn't tell you anything, because you are only eating the one meal a day, then you make the call.

You may surprise yourself with really low early morning and bedtime levels

Hello again Mrs HJG,

Thanks for your reply.

Having thought about the time that I take my first Blood glucose test it is actually more late morning / about 11am - so I have been up and about for probably at least 2 hours although because I have a severe Back problem I am not exerting myself much regarding activity having an effect on my Blood glucose.

With regard to my dinners / evening meals - I stated in my original message when posting this thread that I was cutting down my Carbohydrate intake from previously eating between 380g and 500g of carbs per day - now I am trying to achieve less than 50g per day and I think that the meals that I mentioned in my previous message do have even less than that amount of carbohydrate so I am hoping / guessing that small amount would not cause an increase in my blood glucose levels ?

If I did eat breakfast or lunch I would carry out more tests before and 2 - 4 hours after those meals but I will take your and the other Members who have replied to me advice and carry out a few more tests throughout out the next few says to see if my results fluctuate much during the day / evening / night.

My previous evening / night time tests were carried out between 10pm and 11pm because I usually finish eating my dinner / evening meal at about 7:30 - 8pm so I feel that is close enough to bedtime although I would probably not sleep much before 1am.

Thanks again for your messages and for giving me some details on how activity and meals affect your Blood glucose levels I really appreciate your help and suggestions.

Thanks also to Members Antje77 and Oldvatr for their replies - very much appreciated.

My Regards, Chris

 

[EllieM]

Welcome to the forums @CHRISXX

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the issue here doesn't seem to be blood sugars, which sound to have come down nicely, it's the morning thirst?

Three possibilities that I can think of (disclaimer: I am T1 and not a doctor)
1) your bgs are going high in the night for some strange reason. You could contact Abbott for a free trial of the freestyle libre which would give you a 2 week continuous view of readings. (Not always accurate but should pick up any weird spikes.)
2) As @Oldvatr said, you just haven't had long enough on a low carb diet. (Not sure whether this is relevant for morning thirst).
3) It's something else altogether and you should see your GP. (eg sleep apnoea , night sweats ...) Dr Google says that there are plenty of non diabetic reasons for morning thirst (The first interesting link I found ended by advertising an electrolyte drink so I won't post it. )

Good luck.

 

[Dark Horse]

You could buy some urine dipsticks which test for glucose. If there is no glucose in your urine, your urinary symptoms are not due to high blood glucose.

Some people say that they urinate more frequently on a 'keto' diet.

 

[Oldvatr]

You could buy some urine dipsticks which test for glucose. If there is no glucose in your urine, your urinary symptoms are not due to high blood glucose.

Some people say that they urinate more frequently on a 'keto' diet.

In the early stage of a low carb or keto diet, the body first depletes the glycogen stores in the liver and muscle tissue. Glycogen is a compound of glucose and H2O which gets released. The burning of ATP in the final stages of energy release releases the hydrogen parts of the glucose, which combine with the oxygen to form more water. So weight loss in the early stages increases urine output. Later on, if in ketosis, a similar process occurs when adipose fat is dissolved.

 

[CHRISXX]

Welcome to the forums @CHRISXX

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the issue here doesn't seem to be blood sugars, which sound to have come down nicely, it's the morning thirst?

Three possibilities that I can think of (disclaimer: I am T1 and not a doctor)
1) your bgs are going high in the night for some strange reason. You could contact Abbott for a free trial of the freestyle libre which would give you a 2 week continuous view of readings. (Not always accurate but should pick up any weird spikes.)
2) As @Oldvatr said, you just haven't had long enough on a low carb diet. (Not sure whether this is relevant for morning thirst).
3) It's something else altogether and you should see your GP. (eg sleep apnoea , night sweats ...) Dr Google says that there are plenty of non diabetic reasons for morning thirst (The first interesting link I found ended by advertising an electrolyte drink so I won't post it. )

Good luck.

Hello EllieM,

Thanks for your message - after reading it I searched again online using `Morning thirst` as the search title and found some very interesting [and worrying] information about possible causes that I had not previously found using the search terms `Medical / Diabetes / Dehydration`.

I was diagnosed with Diabetes type 2 from Blood tests that were requested when I went to my Doctor because I started to get very dehydrated a few months ago - it was the dehydration that made me and my Doctor suspect that I had Diabetes which the blood test results confirmed.

I definitely don`t have Sleep Apnoea or Night sweats although I do occasionally suffer from Insomnia which can be bad enough to keep me awake for a couple of consecutive nights - I have not had an episode of that in the couple of weeks that I have been testing my Blood glucose.

I will see if the `Morning thirst` / all day Dehydration continues during the next few weeks - I am fairly sure that it will as I have had it for a few months now - and then I will try and get a Doctors appointment to see if there are other Blood tests that can be prescribed to check the functions of my Liver and Kidneys etc.

As suggested by Members who have replied to me I have tested my Blood twice already today - at 9am = 7.1 and at 1pm = 6.4 - I have not eaten since 8pm last night and I have not had any drinks except water between waking up and the 1pm test - also as I mentioned in a previous message I do not exert myself because I have a severe Back problem so the difference in those 2 test results is not due to `exercise` / any exertion.

I will be testing again at about 4pm - 7:30pm before my dinner and 11pm about 2.5 hours after eating - so that will be 5 tests in a 14 hour period.

Thanks again for your interest and suggestions I really appreciate your help.

Chris

 

[CHRISXX]

You could buy some urine dipsticks which test for glucose. If there is no glucose in your urine, your urinary symptoms are not due to high blood glucose.

Some people say that they urinate more frequently on a 'keto' diet.

Hello Dark Horse,

Thanks for your message and for suggesting the Urine glucose test strips that was very helpful.

I have found a supplier online and ordered some Urine testing strips - they are advertised as used by GP`s / the NHS and have quite a few test points on each strip - they apparently show multiple results when the various points on the strips are compared to a chart of different possible results - not just whether there is Glucose in the urine.

As I wrote in my message to Member EllieM I have had what I consider to be severe Dehydration for a few months now and it was that which made me arrange a Doctors appointment because I suspected that and the consequent frequent urination to be symptoms of Diabetes and that was confirmed by Blood test results which showed the 2 main results - 83 and 9.7%.

My Doctor who is the Surgery `Diabetes specialist` diagnosed me with type 2 Diabetes and prescribed Metformin 1000mg - further Blood tests in mid May and another appointment with him when the test results are available - to see if there is any progress in lowering my Blood glucose level and I am guessing how I am getting on with the Metformin dose ?

Thanks again for your interest and advice I really appreciate it.

My Regards, Chris

 

[CHRISXX]

In the early stage of a low carb or keto diet, the body first depletes the glycogen stores in the liver and muscle tissue. Glycogen is a compound of glucose and H2O which gets released. The burning of ATP in the final stages of energy release releases the hydrogen parts of the glucose, which combine with the oxygen to form more water. So weight loss in the early stages increases urine output. Later on, if in ketosis, a similar process occurs when adipose fat is dissolved.

Hello Oldvatr,

Thanks for your reply and for the information.

As I mentioned in my previous messages to members EllieM and Dark Horse it was Dehydration and frequent urination that made me suspect that I had developed Diabetes a few months ago and caused me to go to see my Doctor - so it was a problem long before I drastically changed my Diet from consuming between about 380g and 500g of carbohydrates per day and cutting down to below 50g per day.

However if I have correctly understood your detailed explanation of the Glycogen depletion process in my body since my very low carbohydrate daily intake - that is causing more water production which contributing to my frequent urination despite my Blood glucose test results seeming to show that I should not have as much `excess glucose` as I did in when the Blood tests showed results of 83 and 9.7% ?

Thanks again for your interest and for the very interesting information I really appreciate it.

My Regards, Chris

 

[CHRISXX]

Hello again All,

Thanks to Member Dark Horse for suggesting that I should obtain some Urine testing strips to check whether my very frequent urination was still my body getting rid of excess glucose even though my Home Blood glucose tests have been showing averages of between 5.7 and 5.9 for about the last 3 weeks.

I bought some - the Multiple indicator type - the Test strips are a brand from a Company that supply GP`s / the NHS [I have seen proof of that] so hopefully as reliable as any test strips can be.

I have taken 3 x Morning / when waking up Urine tests and 3 x late afternoon tests - every indicator on the Test strips are at the lowest levels except for the `Specific Gravity` which is in the high range on the test results colour chart [lower specific gravity ?] - but information about that shows that can be because of High water intake which has been the case with me for many months because I have been dehydrated.

Regarding whether my Diabetes is causing very frequent urination to get rid of excess Glucose:

Using those 6 Test strips on 3 different days - Mornings upon waking up and then again in late afternoons the Glucose level is shown as the lowest level / `Neg` - I an guessing that is `Negligible`.

Now I am convinced that the frequent urination is NOT related to my type 2 Diabetes causing urination to expel excess glucose from my body - I had wondered why the frequent urination had not lessened when I had about 2 weeks of what would be considered `Normal` Blood glucose levels on my Home Blood Glucose Meter tests - I wondered why would there have been so much `excess glucose` with daily / weekly averages of 5.7 and 5.8 mmol results.

For the last week at Members suggestions I have been testing my Blood Glucose 5 times per day with very similar results throughout every day so now I will go back to Morning and Night testing.

The answer from the Urine test strips seems to be that there is NO excess glucose in my urine and some research online seems to point to `Diabetes Insipidus` which is not actually a form of Diabetes even though it is worded as such.

The symptoms are Dehydration / severe thirst which is what I have and although my Doctor diagnosed me with type 2 Diabetes from Blood test results which were specifically checking for high levels of Glucose etc. which I am sure did indicate that I do have Diabetes it looks to ME as if I also have this `Diabetes Insipidus` problem ?

From what I have read on an NHS website about this condition it is caused by a problem in a part of the BRAIN [!] which causes a particular Hormone to be produced or not produced and that hormone regulates Water retention or the reverse - frequent urination and the subsequent frequent thirst / frequent drinking causing a circular condition - Thirst / Dehydration - frequent Water intake - frequent Urination - Dehydration / Thirst on on it goes.

Obviously the next step is to see my Doctor however my Doctors Surgery is not booking face to face appointments unless needed very urgently [serious problems told to go to Hospital A&E] because Covid-19 precautions are still in place there.

I also know that telephone appointments are fully booked for many weeks - I will have to try and convince the Reception / Admin staff that I need an `Emergency appointment` - but even trying to speak to someone about this will mean being on hold for up to 45 minutes at each attempt to get through to someone.

You are often told by the automated switchboard that there are more than 20 people on hold / queuing [from previous and recent experience] and you are often `cut off` at about the 45 minute point - extremely frustrating.

I have read on an NHS website that the testing process for either confirming or otherwise that someone has `Diabetes Insipidus` has to be done in a Hospital which would obviously need a referral from my Doctor and as Hospital Outpatients waiting lists are apparently at the highest they have ever been I wonder what my priority rating would be for an appointment ?

Thanks again to Dark Horse and the other Members who have replied to me so far on this thread.

My Regards, Chris

 

[eliseypop23]

hello i am currently 3.1

 

[Antje77]

hello i am currently 3.1

Hi @eliseypop23 , have you eaten something to bring it up?

 

[CHRISXX]

Hello again All,

Although the details in my last message definitely indicate that I need to ask my Diabetes specialist Doctor about my home Blood Glucose test results / Dehydration / frequent drinking / frequent Urination because that will not be until an appointment after further Blood tests in May I wondered if any other Members have had a similar situation ?

I have carried out 76 Blood Glucose tests over about the last 4.5 weeks and my average result is 5.7 mmol/L.

Although as I mentioned in a previous message I bought some seemingly good quality - `as supplied to the NHS` Urine test strips which have showed Glucose = `Neg` on 10 x tests / 5 different days morning and afternoons - I am wondering whether the test strips could be faulty regarding not showing that there is still a high amount of Glucose in my urine and that is why I am still experiencing the frequent drinking and urinating ?

I was hoping that I might get some replies about whether [ignoring what I previously wrote about suspecting `Diabetes Insipidus`] - I should be expecting my frequent Dehydration / frequent Urination to have lessened because of the seemingly `normal` Blood Glucose test results that I have been getting every day for about the last 4.5 weeks ?

Because of the amount of Members on the Forum I wondered if anyone else had experienced what I described about me still being very dehydrated every day and night with the resulting frequent drinking and urination - and I would be very surprised / concerned if no one else had ?

As I previously mentioned I know that these questions should be asked of a Doctor but I doubt whether my Doctors Surgery would deem them `urgent ` enough to merit an appointment before the scheduled one at the end of May so any replies about my concerns would be very much appreciated.

My Regards,

Chris

 

[Antje77]

Using those 6 Test strips on 3 different days - Mornings upon waking up and then again in late afternoons the Glucose level is shown as the lowest level / `Neg` - I an guessing that is `Negligible`

Neg` on 10 x tests / 5 different days morning and afternoons - I am wondering whether the test strips could be faulty regarding not showing that there is still a high amount of Glucose in my urine

Why do you think there is glucose in your urine?
Glucose usually only starts to spill in urine when blood glucose is above 10 or 11 mmol/l.

 

[Rokaab]

As I previously mentioned I know that these questions should be asked of a Doctor but I doubt whether my Doctors Surgery would deem them `urgent ` enough to merit an appointment before the scheduled one at the end of May so any replies about my concerns would be very much appreciated.

It may be absolutely nothing to do with any type of diabetes.
You will need to talk to a doctor about it and ask them to check for non-diabetes related reasons - I know prostate issues can cause extra urination for instance - dunno if they cause the other issues though - but the point is that you need an open mind here