How do I help someone being given poor medical advice

[Goonergal]

Hi all

The preamble: have changed my avatar so that I am not personally identifiable in case the person I want to write about finds this forum. Also changed a few details to make self-identification harder and am not including the gender of the person concerned.

Someone I know has recently been diagnosed Type 2, with an HbA1c in the high 50s and very few other symptoms. While I don't want to turn this into a rant about the medical profession, they are being given really poor advice and I am in a quandary about the best way to help them (they definitely will not appreciate me interfering or acting as though I know it all).

Their doctor is telling them that they should:

- Not skip meals and definitely eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and not go more than a few hours without eating.
- More than that, not eating means the body is converting everything into glucose and their sugars will go up while not eating.
- Not test - that is just for type 1 insulin users.This is despite being warned about DKA (to the point of fear).
- Not taking their medication is dangerous and they can die if they don't take it. (The medication is making them feel rotten and worse than before being diagnosed).

Now obviously I am getting everything secondhand, but it breaks my heart to hear about such misinformation. I am going to (tactfully) share a link to this forum, but wanted to seek advice about how to broach this. The HbA1c is not dangerously high and it strikes me that dietary changes ought to be able to improve it significantly.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I am at work so will check in again a bit later.

Edited to remove a few potentially identifying comments as link to this site is to be shared! Thanks for all the comments.

 

[andcol]

why not direct them here so that we can all help. You are then not "interferring" and just providing support

 

[LooperCat]

Wow, what an epic collection of misinformation! One of my T2 friends has been told by his DN that his type two will naturally progress to type one because he’s so poorly controlled he’ll need insulin soon. In their mind insulin use equates to type one, so I explained to him the difference between the autoimmune condition I have compared to the insulin resistance he has. He said it finally makes sense, he’s been so confused by the “information” he’s been given.

I’d get your friend a copy of Dr Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution to read - they might be more inclined to believe (and act upon) information and advice from a doctor than a friend. Or as @andcol suggests, point them here

 

[bulkbiker]

Agree with @andcol @Goonergal I think that by directing them here they will learn things themselves (assuming they want to) which I think makes it "stick" more than being told things. If they don't want to learn or are in awe of the HCP's then I'm not really sure what to do (apart of course from locking them in the cellar and feeding them bacon and eggs until their Type 2 is in remission).

 

[rab5]

Direct them here. If they are inquisitive and know about how you changed the condition they will ask. At that point you tell them.

 

[DCUKMod]

Gonergal - Firstly, I'd say for me, it would very much depend if they were asking for my opinion. If they seem wedded to their Doc, the I might be inclined to mention that there seem to be many way to approach T2, and I chose something quite different to the Doc's suggestion and it worked well for me.

If they're saying their Doc's advice seems bonkers and they can't work kout how that'll work, then that's much easier.

If they're not looking for help and you have concerns about their raction to your interjection, then maybe just wait a wee while then ask how they're geting along against goals they agreed with their GP, and take it from there.

If you have any great books you learned a lot from since diagnosis, you could offer to lend?

I'd be very happy indeed for any of my friends or colleagues to be directed here, but some folks can't abide being directed anywhere. As adults they are allowed those options.

 

[Goonergal]

Hi @andcol @Mel dCP @bulkbiker @rab5 and @DCUKMod and thanks.

I will direct them here. They weren't directly asking for my opinion, but did share that they'd mentioned me and my approach to their doctor, who dismissed it so I think they're toying with the idea of looking into it themselves. That said, I think they are quite traditional in their approach to doctors, so I didn't question anything, just made a few observations which hopefully will have opened up some questions in their mind.

@DCUKMod I like your suggestion and will ask them how they're getting along in a couple of days and throw in that I've found this site useful for understanding more and helping me to have informed discussions with the doctor and see how that falls. I was thinking about books - all mine are kindle versions. Will wait on that to see how offer of linking here lands.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi @andcol @Mel dCP @bulkbiker @rab5 and @DCUKMod and thanks.

I will direct them here. They weren't directly asking for my opinion, but did share that they'd mentioned me and my approach to their doctor, who dismissed it so I think they're toying with the idea of looking into it themselves. That said, I think they are quite traditional in their approach to doctors, so I didn't question anything, just made a few observations which hopefully will have opened up some questions in their mind.

@DCUKMod I like your suggestion and will ask them how they're getting along in a couple of days and throw in that I've found this site useful for understanding more and helping me to have informed discussions with the doctor and see how that falls. I was thinking about books - all mine are kindle versions. Will wait on that to see how offer of linking here lands.

Goonergal - This came out after I was well on my way, but it's a great, ver basic starter to LC with fats way of living: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Fat-Step-Step-Living/dp/0957141378

I ended up with two, by way of fluke - one has gone on a world tour (literally) and other other to a relative. The relative's family have made more than the original recipients, but if ti does good somewhere.......

Good luck with it all. It's always tricky not to end up becoming evangelical.

 

[shelley262]

Hi @Goonergal
Love your new avatar btw do you know where the carving is? Love sculptures.
This is really difficult isn’t it I think it’s probably harder than when a dr or nurse dosent give any advice but just says take the pills.
I think you can only lead by example and you are a star - until the person realises just how much misinformation is out there it’s going to be difficult. All I feel you can do is just mention sites like this and lead by example. I followed the official health advice when first diagnosed and did manage to reduce from 97 to 42 losing weight and doing a medium carb and low fat approach. It was only after two years when despite still doing this and increasing my exercise my hbaca1 and weight were both climbing and my DN said I was obviously slipping and not doing enough that I started to doubt the official advice -as I knew I was trying even harder and was hungry all the time - so went to dr google and found the low carb programme and later dr feung and later this forum. You can give her the info but she may need time to see the light!
Interestingly my mum and aunt were incredibly negative initially to my new way of eating and thought I was going too far but they are both as diabetics making definite changes because of my example and now are eating fewer carbs and both have lower hbaca1 s. I find it difficult not to evangelise when I know it works but that seems to cause more of a negative reaction. Good luck at least they have a lowish high figure.....

 

[Goonergal]

Thanks @DCUKMod haven't come across that book before.

@shelley262 thanks for the support. It is hard not to evangelise. Will just gently guide them towards this site. My avatar is a photo I took myself. It’s of an apsara on one of the temples (can’t remember which one) in the Angkor Wat complex in Siem Reap in Cambodia.

 

[shelley262]

Thanks @DCUKMod haven't come across that book before.

@shelley262 thanks for the support. It is hard not to evangelise. Will just gently guide them towards this site. My avatar is a photo I took myself. It’s of an apsara on one of the temples (can’t remember which one) in the Angkor Wat complex in Siem Reap in Cambodia.

Interesting info our youngest son has been to Angkor Wat on his travels but I haven’t but would love to thank you

 

[Pipp]

@Goonergal , The book recommended by DCUKMod really is invaluable. I have handed out several of them to grateful recipients. They all ended up paying me the £10 and saying it was the best tenner they had ever spent.

You have my sympathy in your plight. It is so hard seeing someone struggle, when you know you can help. Word of caution, softly, softly approach is needed, as others have already mentioned. Some people cannot relate to the fact that others have taken charge of their own health and gone against popular teaching on nutrition, and resent any well meaning advice. I have watched others following the recommended medical advice and have become progressively worse. It is impossible to reach some folks.

 

[Goonergal]

@Goonergal , The book recommended by DCUKMod really is invaluable. I have handed out several of them to grateful recipients. They all ended up paying me the £10 and saying it was the best tenner they had ever spent.

You have my sympathy in your plight. It is so hard seeing someone struggle, when you know you can help. Word of caution, softly, softly approach is needed, as others have already mentioned. Some people cannot relate to the fact that others have taken charge of their own health and gone against popular teaching on nutrition, and resent any well meaning advice. I have watched others following the recommended medical advice and have become progressively worse. It is impossible to reach some folks.

Thanks. Will get one of the books. Will definitely be treading carefully!

 

[AdamJames]

Hi all

The preamble: have changed my avatar so that I am not personally identifiable in case the person I want to write about finds this forum. Also changed a few details to make self-identification harder and am not including the gender of the person concerned.

Someone I know has recently been diagnosed Type 2, with an HbA1c in the high 50s and very few other symptoms. While I don't want to turn this into a rant about the medical profession, they are being given really poor advice and I am in a quandary about the best way to help them (they definitely will not appreciate me interfering or acting as though I know it all).

Their doctor is telling them that they should:

- Not skip meals (prior to diagnosis they would often only eat once or twice a day) and definitely eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and not go more than a few hours without eating.
- More than that, not eating means the body is converting everything into glucose and their sugars will go up while not eating.
- Not test - that is just for type 1 insulin users.This is despite being warned about DKA (to the point of fear).
- Because people in the person's family also have type 2, it is genetic and not lifestyle related so diet won't control it.
- Not taking their medication (which seems to be a combination of Metformin plus some other blood glucose altering combination - not Gliclazide) is dangerous and they can die if they don't take it. (The medication is making them feel rotten and worse than before being diagnosed).

Now obviously I am getting everything secondhand, but it breaks my heart to hear about such misinformation. I am going to (tactfully) share a link to this forum, but wanted to seek advice about how to broach this. The HbA1c is not dangerously high and it strikes me that dietary changes ought to be able to improve it significantly.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I am at work so will check in again a bit later.

We have a similar problem with our mum, helped by the combination of her being unable to use the Internet and putting complete faith in what her GP tells her.

Presumably you are worried about his/her adverse reaction to advice for a reason, i.e. they are not the type to respond well to suggestions?

In that case you could always make it about you and your GP in conversations, rather than theirs.

E.g. next time you meet you could make it sound like you are venting your annoyance about your circumstances rather than preaching about his/hers. You could convey how you were recently at your GP and were given awful advice, how when you researched the advice you realised it was likely to make things worse, and how glad you were you found a forum like this and how you've made a huge difference with your approach. If they start to talk about their situation, cut across them and keep bemoaning yours - that'll throw them off the scent! Maybe that's going too far, I don't know...

 

[Goonergal]

We have a similar problem with our mum, helped by the combination of her being unable to use the Internet and putting complete faith in what her GP tells her.

Presumably you are worried about his/her adverse reaction to advice for a reason, i.e. they are not the type to respond well to suggestions?

In that case you could always make it about you and your GP in conversations, rather than theirs.

E.g. next time you meet you could make it sound like you are venting your annoyance about your circumstances rather than preaching about his/hers. You could convey how you were recently at your GP and were given awful advice, how when you researched the advice you realised it was likely to make things worse, and how glad you were you found a forum like this and how you've made a huge difference with your approach. If they start to talk about their situation, cut across them and keep bemoaning yours - that'll throw them off the scent! Maybe that's going too far, I don't know...

Yes, definitely not the sort to welcome unsolicited advice! And I know how annoying that can be too so definitely a case of waiting for the right moment and being extremely tactful.

 

[Mbaker]

As a knowledgeable person on Type 2 matters, I see nothing wrong with giving some first hand information, your example is a strong starting position. This is often not well received in today's climate, but if someone were bleeding and I could stem the flow I would try.

My elder brother once warned me about an ex, I did not listen, I am glad he tried to help me though in hindsight, as I might have listened. I am quite direct, and I have recent proof with friends and family that direct can work, as well as being ignored - one family member has a rising HbA1c of 39 (A1cNOW+, compared to my 32 on the same device) and is still eating corn flakes, sugar in tea and having sugary desserts (saw this just today). As this person knows everything about my journey I am surprised there is no change in behaviour, but this is freedom of choice.

 

[Metabolism_Boss]

Wow, what an epic collection of misinformation! One of my T2 friends has been told by his DN that his type two will naturally progress to type one because he’s so poorly controlled he’ll need insulin soon. In their mind insulin use equates to type one, so I explained to him the difference between the autoimmune condition I have compared to the insulin resistance he has. He said it finally makes sense, he’s been so confused by the “information” he’s been given.

I’d get your friend a copy of Dr Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution to read - they might be more inclined to believe (and act upon) information and advice from a doctor than a friend. Or as @andcol suggests, point them here

I started with Dr Bernstein. Mind you I was an easy convert, common sense told me that the booklets given to me would not help, due to the huge amount of carb being recommended. I had a type 2 friend who told me that you weren't supposed to cut carbs. When I replied that I felt that advice was liable to kill me, she burst into tears. Sometimes it just takes an "aha" moment to alter the way someone thinks. My friend now does low carb and is doing well. All we can do is point out the alternatives to the NHS dogma and the logic that if you are carb intolerant it might be better to stop putting carbs into your mouth.

 

[Diane50]

I started with Dr Bernstein. Mind you I was an easy convert, common sense told me that the booklets given to me would not help, due to the huge amount of carb being recommended. I had a type 2 friend who told me that you weren't supposed to cut carbs. When I replied that I felt that advice was liable to kill me, she burst into tears. Sometimes it just takes an "aha" moment to alter the way someone thinks. My friend now does low carb and is doing well. All we can do is point out the alternatives to the NHS dogma and the logic that if you are carb intolerant it might be better to stop putting carbs into your mouth.

I have type 2 diabetes was diagnosed In February have managed to bring my levels down but finding it hard to find the right foods to eat which is making me very low don't know what to do

 

[librarising]

Thanks @DCUKMod haven't come across that book before.

@shelley262 thanks for the support. It is hard not to evangelise. Will just gently guide them towards this site. My avatar is a photo I took myself. It’s of an apsara on one of the temples (can’t remember which one) in the Angkor Wat complex in Siem Reap in Cambodia.

I'm still seeing a picture of you in a hooped back and white jumper (??). That may be because I use a VPN. I'll try without. No, that made no difference. A techie person may understand this.
Anyone else ?
Geoff