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How do you do a low carb/low fat diet

I took high fat food to mean food that was high in fat but as I said earlier I struggle with the scientific stuff :?
 
Dillinger said:
Cugila - I didn't know that about the Metformin - interesting; why do you think that was? I thought it was generally considered to be a very benign drug (which is why I'm on it by choice).

Dillinger
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Not really sure, haven't been able to find much info about why........my Endo reckons it was because they had quite a few who couldn't tolerate such a high dose ? Who knows, I never had any problem with it.
 
I think that is the main issue of disagreement here; because as I understand it it is exactly the opposite that happens. The way I understand it is; insulin resistance causes an increased level of serum insulin which leads to more glucose being laid down as fat and simultaneously inhibits the 'burning' of fat and hence weight gain, which in turn causes greater insulin resistance.
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Wow, I just had a read of that and that can't be right - surely it's a journalist misquoting the study ? "The consumption of high-fat food causes more insulin to be released by the pancreas." That's just not true - unless, as Patch says, they mean by 'high-fat food' carbs AND fat. If you eat a pat of butter you will not have any insulin response. You will not feel well, but you won't need insulin to deal with it.
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The problem with most of the papers on the subject is that they full of detailed biochemistry so very hard to understand. There has been a huge amount of work on the subject particularly in the last 10-15 years.
This paper is a 1999 one by a well respected researcher. McGarry.
There is a bullet point summary. It certainly points to fats having an effect on the amount of insulin secreted.
5.) The insulinotropic potency of fatty acids increases with their degree of saturation. (insulinotrophic, I had to look it up, stimulating or affecting the production and activity of insulin)
6.) At any given time, insulin secretion will be governed not only by the blood glucose concentration, but also by the prevailing concentration and nature of the circulating fatty acids.
7.) An excessively high ratio of saturated to unsaturated NEFA in the blood might promote hypersecretion of insulin and thus contribute to the hyperinsulinaemia,dyslipidaemia and insulin resistance that accompany the overconsumption of dietary saturated fat.
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Fatty acids, lipotoxicity and insulin secretion 1999
http://www.springerlink.com/content/l50 ... lltext.pdf
A later paper by Keith Frayn has a simple diagram showing how dietary fats may contribute to insulin resistance
p378
http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... afcdd37ae9
Lastly and quite recenly they have begun to look more specifically at the effect of different types of fats upon insulin sensitivity/resistance. This short paper reviews recent research It seems to point to some fats promoting insulin sensitivity and others resistance. The seasaw diagram shows where current thinking lies. The referenced papers give the evidence.
Dietary fat and insulin sensitivity
http://www.springerlink.com/content/441 ... ltext.html
 
Dillinger said:
jopar said:
It may be the fat content that is causing the insulin resistence, so reducing fat content may well improve insulin resistence
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I think that is the main issue of disagreement here; because as I understand it it is exactly the opposite that happens. The way I understand it is; insulin resistance causes an increased level of serum insulin which leads to more glucose being laid down as fat and simultaneously inhibits the 'burning' of fat and hence weight gain, which in turn causes greater insulin resistance. Weight gain in diabetics (and arguably in anyone) is a consequence of the problem not a cause. Calories in versus calories out doesn't take into account the hormonal response to food.

What is your thinking on fat content causing insulin resistance? I can't think of how that would work. This is a link describing how fat is metabolised http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism and the only place that insulin comes into it is through inhibiting the break down of fat.

Dillinger
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I don't think that I need to expand on Phoneix posts concerning the whys and why nots..

But as you asked my personal opinion

Concerning is it a consequence or cause!

Personally it's grasping at straws, an attempt to either lay the blame at somebody's else's door or try to justify something...

Mind you; you could dispell the theory yourself, by lowering your fat intake adjusting your carb intake to compensate the fat lose and see whether your insulin needs drop or not!
 
jopar said:
Concerning is it a consequence or cause!

Personally it's grasping at straws, an attempt to either lay the blame at somebody's else's door or try to justify something...

Mind you; you could dispell the theory yourself, by lowering your fat intake adjusting your carb intake to compensate the fat lose and see whether your insulin needs drop or not!
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Phoenix - thank you I'll have a read of those when I can - but a very thorough answer, as ever. In comparison to glucose and insulin response it must almost by definition be pretty minimal though? Anyway, I'll read up. Thanks

Jopar - Well, then it must follow that you think any over weight Type 2 has brought it on themselves through some character defect or lack of will. That's not going to make you the most popular person on here I imagine!

Continuing on that theme - if obesity is caused by the sins of sloth and gluttony, which sin or sins cause people to be short? Vanity perhaps?
 
I have to say, the words 'might', 'may' and 'current thinking' always make me pretty distrustful of the authenticity of any given statement. The words 'may' or 'might', 'can' put things into the Public Psyche that are unproven or unconfirmed, and that is pretty snidey.

Shredded wheat 'may' be good for your heart.

Pigs 'might' fly......
 
Sorry Ali, but very few things in scientific writing are written as definitive, there are few laws. Everything must be testable and rejectable. Hence we still have the theory of evolution, not Darwins law.
The whole scientific paradigm is about testing hypotheses and seeking evidence that supports or falsifies a proposition.
Statisical testing shows the probablities that a certain finding is likely or unlikely to be due to chance... but even when the probaility is extremely strong , and even when several different studies show similar results, so that perhaps something moves from an hypothesis to a theory there is always that element of uncertainty hence the conventional use of the words may, might, etc. Pragmatically, no one would think to write a paper using the language of certainty.
 
Well absolutely.

How can you kick a ball at the goal when the goal posts keep moving.....

I know a lot of people put a lot of faith in Science and won't believe anything unless it has a scientific backup attached to it but I am afraid that I am a Science heretic. When it comes to scientific laws, such as the apple dropping on your head then things like that are indisputable, but when every new study that comes out seems to tell a different story to the last one, then how can anyone put any faith in it?

There may be a few that appear to tell a relatively similar story, but then others will come along to refute them. Then again, it all depends on who is paying the piper, or what particular angle is being looked at, or whether they have included all the relevant data, or whether they have missed any crucial 'evidence'...or....

Even scientists are human. And humans can be influenced by external pressures or persuasions. There are very few independent scientific studies being done. Financial constraints do not allow for independence or lack of bias. If the sugar bureau is paying for studies to be done, it isn't going to want its scientists publishing damning data!

Prof. John Ioannides and his team have conducted a very careful assessment of a lot of scientific studies and data, and has found much of it to be sorely lacking - and even fraudulent in some cases.

I know some would say, if we can't trust science then who can we trust, but we have to be very careful that we aren't putting blind faith in it.
 
Dillinger said:
Jopar - Well, then it must follow that you think any over weight Type 2 has brought it on themselves through some character defect or lack of will. That's not going to make you the most popular person on here I imagine!
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Hi Dillinger, please discuss the issue rather than the people discussing it.

With thanks
Benedict
 
I've now lost the weight I put on. I've also been to physio this morning for some exercises so that I can stand and walk some more. It's recommended that I swim 3 times a week, so I'm looking into that, too.

This week's diet will be mainly salami as they were selling it cheap at Sainsbury's and I've bought enough for 5 days breakfasts :lol: . At least it'll be a change from eggs.

Thanks for all the help.

Cheers
Ailz
 
I have been a diabrtic for ten yrs now and its taken me all of that time to get my suger level,s stable, but it will never stop me from eating anything i want in moderation, i find a posative atitued is the way to go, i'm 53yrs old and feel great also i have a heart condistion, but i happy and takeing it all in my stride, all the best to all who reads this. xx margie
 
Aliz
I wantted to try and get my Blood sugars under control, but despite trying all sort of medical problem it came on not off. I also suffer from Sleep Apnea and last year just before Christmas I went to see the consultant and I told her about the weight problem and she suddenly came up and said "Have you tired a GI Diet?" I had to ask what that was and she told me, it is cutting down on your Fat intake and Carb intake. You DO NOT stop eating it completely because your body still needs some of each to function properly. So when we got home my wife and I started looking into it, a GI Diet as it is sometimes called. So I cut down on fat and carbs, Bread and potatoes went virtually completley and I made sure everything had it fat cut off or was grilled slowly, so any fat dripped away. A couple of weeks later I felt a lot better than I had for a long while, I also noticed my clothes were a bit loose, but I was scared to jump on the scales. I left it 6 weeks before I got the dreaded scales out and I had lost over 10kgs it was a shock I did nto expect to lose that weight, but I had to be sensible and not lose it too quickly. One benefit was that my blood sugars appeared to be very stable, so much so that my Nurse stopped my Insulin completely, that left me with taking only Metformin a day only.

I carried on and lost altogether (up to today) 14Kgs from my bulk weight of 145kgs.
But I did have to go back on the Insulin and I am now on 105 units of Insulin a day, (Previous when I started the GI Diet I was on 186 units the). With regards to the food, I am very careful what I eat and the quantity, but other than cutting down a hell of a lot of bread and potatoes I don't eat just any old food I keep to "Healthy foods only" as much as possible.

I do have a fair few other medical problems which affect my ability to lose weight as much as i can, but if you are sensible you can use the cutting of fats and carbs as a way of adjusting not only your weight but your amount of Diabetic medicines you have to use. But I will add it takes a lots of will power on the GI diet and you can easily lapse backwards.
I am 56 yrs old and have been type 2 diabetic for over 10yrs now.Good luck
Keefyboyuk
 
Well I didn't see what you ate before bed (dinner). Try keeping a log of everything you eat. What you describe here looks pretty low glycemic. Try getting a book on the glycemic index and loads. Most diabetes researchers say eating fat will replace carbs. so you should lose weight. But fat calories are very high too. The goal should be to get your insuln levels down to lower your insulin resistance. Sad to say but saturated fat can make insulin resistance worse. I love Thai food so I was eating ground chicken dishes thinking this would be good for my insulin resistance. Even Very limiting any brown rice, I discovered it was raising my blood sugars. Come to find out chicken has more cholesterol than 5% or 15 % fat hamburger and even more than serloin steak. I liked the ground chicken, which I discovered has 3 times more saturated fat than not ground. So maybe cut down the bad fat and replace it with good fat, like fish or seafood. Eggs are good nutrition but they and red meat are the highest food source or arachidonic acid, the precursor of all inflamation in your body. Try one egg yolk and two whites.

I wanted to lose weight and lower my glucose so I tried going on the USANA reset program for 5 days. You eat the USANA shakes for meals and bars for snacks. I lost 9 lbs. the first week and 3 additional the next week even after being off it. My blood sugar went to non diabetic levels and after a few months of eating low glycemic foods and dancing a few hours a week, I lost 51 lbs. So low glycemic does work better than any other program I've tried. http://secretdietsolutions.com/diet-bas ... available/
 
Hi I am Nutritionist, also a diabetic (type 1)
In response I would say that your current diet is to high in saturated fat, lacking in fibre and vitamins and minerals, so thought I would give you some healthier weightloss tips along side some foods that are known to help control blood sugar levels.

Breakfast
Blueberry pancake, 2 egg whites, spoonfull of wholemeal flour, spoonfull of milk, beat mixture,
place a tea spoon of oil in pan and smear around pan with some kitchen role,
place on heat and make your pancake, plate and put three spoonfulls of blueberries in middle with a sprinkle of stevia and a pinch of cinnamon. Eat with low fat greek yoghurt or quark,or soya yoghurt
Blueberries are very high in antioxidants, lower bloodsugar and support eye sight,
cinnamon for diabetes control is well known
lunch or Diner
Choose fish, tofu, chicken, turkey with prefference for oily fish,
mixed green salad, raw carrot and cellery sticks and steamed veg with herbs, spices, be creative !
make your own salad dressing pinch of mustard olive oil and cider vinegar (lowers glycemic response)
Have fun !!!
Ps always eat fruit at different time to main meal and choose low glycemic ie plums, raspberrys
 
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