How intertwined is thyroid and pancreas?

[Triceraptors]

I started off my journey with diabetes symptoms and went on to do type 1 tests. Antibodies were negative. However, I then reflected on my older lab results for thyroid and I had present of anti-TPO antibodies (within limits though) and my FT3 and FT4 are on the high end for at least a year.

Forum members might remember me asking about diabetes when I failed OGTT. My endo thinks all is fine but is it? I am symptomatic for hyperthyroidism and the main cause of it is usually autoimmune issue. Now, if I failed OGTT and don't have antibodies against pancreas, can it still mean that thyroid being attacked actually is damaging the pancreas as well?

Any insight is appreciated. I was floored with this realisation today and have never felt more depressed for Christmas.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

I have no answers for you, but do know that the 2 are most definitely linked. I am hypothyroid and have t2d, plus a couple of other autoimmune thingies.

Most of my mums family have lots of autoimmune disorders as well, with t2d and hypothyroidism being the most common.

Please dont let it ruin your Christmas. I have used my diagnosis to be the most healthy I have been for years. It need not mean the end of life as you know it!

Do some research, have a good look around the web and ask questions.

And have a good Christmas.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I have no answers for you, but do know that the 2 are most definitely linked. I am hypothyroid and have t2d, plus a couple of other autoimmune thingies.

Most of my mums family have lots of autoimmune disorders as well, with t2d and hypothyroidism being the most common.

Please dont let it ruin your Christmas. I have used my diagnosis to be the most healthy I have been for years. It need not mean the end of life as you know it!

Do some research, have a good look around the web and ask questions.

And have a good Christmas.

As far as I know T2D is not an autoimmune disorder.

 

[Resurgam]

I have a non working thyroid - I get a test once a year and take the pills - sorted.
My diabetes is the type two sort - so I eat low carb, BG levels are normal - also sorted.
I have tried being worried about things a few times, but it seemed a rather pointless exercise so I stopped doing it - it seems far better this way.

 

[AdamJames]

I have tried being worried about things a few times, but it seemed a rather pointless exercise so I stopped doing it - it seems far better this way.

I'm getting a past-tense version of that putting on my gravestone.

 

[Resurgam]

I'm getting a past-tense version of that putting on my gravestone.

 

[ringi]

Remember that it is very likely high insulin level due to insulin resistance increase autoimmune responses. It is also claimed that insulin resistance in muscle cells can be triggered by an autoimmune response starting off the twin cycle of liver fat etc.

My sister is a trained biochemistry researcher (named on a few drug patents) she very match thinks of Type2 as being related to autoimmune, with most autoimmune conditions (other than Type1) in our family. And yes I do have an underative thyroid.

("low carb" also seems to give good results with other autoimmune conditions like arthritis)

 

[Kentoldlady1]

As far as I know T2D is not an autoimmune disorder.

This is true at the moment. However, lots of new research is coming out that shows a definite link between thyroid disorders and t2d. A huge study in india covering new t2ds and newly dx hypothyroidism showed a definite relationship. Other research is showing that far more people with hypothyroidism go on to develop t2d than should be expected.

Nobody knows why some of us develop t2d. If it was solely down to weight etc then all fat people would have t2d and that is not the case. In my mums family nearly all of us have hypothyroidism. Many of us also have t2d. We also have a nasty bunch of other autoimmune goodies, such as ms and t1d.

I am hoping that all this new research will find a link . Some of my children are already showing signs of autoimmune disorders and I dont want them to end up like some of my older relatives. And I hope its found in time to help me!

 

[Triceraptors]

This is true at the moment. However, lots of new research is coming out that shows a definite link between thyroid disorders and t2d. A huge study in india covering new t2ds and newly dx hypothyroidism showed a definite relationship. Other research is showing that far more people with hypothyroidism go on to develop t2d than should be expected.

Nobody knows why some of us develop t2d. If it was solely down to weight etc then all fat people would have t2d and that is not the case. In my mums family nearly all of us have hypothyroidism. Many of us also have t2d. We also have a nasty bunch of other autoimmune goodies, such as ms and t1d.

I am hoping that all this new research will find a link . Some of my children are already showing signs of autoimmune disorders and I dont want them to end up like some of my older relatives. And I hope its found in time to help me!

It also seems that if a cure for one autoimmune disease is found, then all others can be addressed as well.

 

[ringi]

It also seems that if a cure for one autoimmune disease is found, then all others can be addressed as well.

Very unlikely but I expect there will be common risk factors (like pollution) that could be changed to reduce the number of new cases of many types of autoimmune disease.

 

[Lamont D]

In my experience through misdiagnosis and getting a true diagnosis and of course doing tons of research. Symptoms of all endocrine conditions are similar in so many ways, combine the hypo and hyper thyroid problems, the symptoms are there again!
All hormones have an effect on how many different symptoms we get!
I came across the fact that the triggers that start with the expectation of food, saliva and those initial hormonal response decide how much insulin is needed, other hormones are in play. This is a trigger response from the brain and regardless of what we eat, we need a response to digest.
That initial response of what is called the gut brain trigger, can and does have an effect on how high your glucose/insulin response is, depending on how bad your insulin resistance is, will make you out pancreas work harder, if not T1 other Type two on insulin, and of course Lada!
So, in essence, yes, I do think that everything is connected and I would like to think that in the near future, it is shown that insulin and glucose conditions as well as thyroid issues can be controlled by sorting out the how it all works in response to food.
Gut bacteria has an important role in how we tolerate what goes down our throat!

 

[ickihun]

I've noticed a change in swallowing and how often this is done has evoked more enzymes to break the food down.
It stopped (reduced the frequency) recently after a bout of severe indigestion.
My breathing and gulping air has increased again on xmas carbs. 2lb add and loss for 3mths now with different variants of water tummy retention.
I believe it starts in the mouth and the whole digestive system.
What we eat affects more than the digestive system!

My tsh improved in the summer and weight loss came about, very very easily.
I wasn't breathing well not sleeping well but my tsh was the best I've seen it.
More meds to block more palpatations and to slow my heart beat down. Chest pains are few and far bètween now.
The weight loss was a god send, for sure.
Now my levothyroxine was decreased and betablocker increased I'm not living on my wits end.
I can at least relax and sleep off.

 

[ickihun]

@Triceraptors
T3 & T4 are a bit of an individual thing as to what's normal. You'd want to look at TSH to see if it's much below normal. If so your pituatary is trying to turn down the T thermostat and having a hard time of it. Sub-clinical hyperthyroidism perhaps.

From what I understand about T2 it starts with our genes which predisposes us, because of our lifestyles, to develop T2. We use food efficiently and that goes against us. Getting fat is a symptom not a cause. However, once our fat cells are absolutely packed full of trigs and expand then inflammation sets in. Some people have different genes, causing fat cells that don't blow up like balloons, they reproduce and never cause inflammation. There's just lots more of the small ones. Skinny fat cells I guess.

Not having read the mentioned research I'm skeptical about the autoimmune going after the pancreas beta cells and cells, of a different type, in the thyroid. I think the T2 is a liver/pancreas fat problem. HyperT could be many other things; it's endo territory IMO and needs to be checked out. The long term affects are subtle and have their own problems separate from T2 complications.

My experience is HypoT and HyperT are caused by different things, sometimes autoimmune attacking cells and other times autoimmune mistakenly making an antibody that looks like TSH, Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. HyperT can be caused by extra, overgrown thyroid nodules (putting out TH) that are unresponsive to TSH.

I believe insulin resistance is solely a liver problem. I'm convinced.
I'll go as far to say alcohol induced by sperm or egg in conception.

Show me 2 none alcohol users for genetical parents to any type2 sufferer?
Or drug user, legal or illegal.
That is why type2 is a pandemic.
Alcohol and medication/drugs are sooooo widely available. Not like in the pre-war years but definately in the past 60-70yrs.
Even cough medicine has been readily available but not pre-war. It was very rare.

Autism is the same. Its so common now.

Its all in what we eat or take for ailments or pleasure.

The liver has to process it ALL.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Show me 2 none alcohol users for genetical parents to any type2 sufferer?

So you are saying there are no type 2's in Islamic countries?

 

[Triceraptors]

@No2D
Here is a thing. I originally went to endocrinologist scared about having diabetes symptoms. So, he did antibodies tests and they are negative, as in all 0s. The problem is that I have shown him the thyroid tests, and while he was not concerned, maybe because my TSH is weirdly normal, while FT3/4 are elevated, I do experience hyperthyroid symptoms and on my humble opinion, it started earlier than my woes of 'beetus symptoms.

I have been loading up on thyroid blockers such as foods: brocolli, brussel sprouts, etc. and was drinking acetyl-l-carnitine that is supposed to prevent the thyroid hormones from binding to body cells, and also, supply some energy to muscles. I was reading a lot on the web and people say that keeping FT4 in the very upper range is actually a good idea since it calms down immune system and, if there are antibodies, stops their production.

Basically, I don't think that my symptoms are worth ignoring .... they are there for a reason.

 

[ringi]

I believe insulin resistance is solely a liver problem. I'm convinced.

It's not, insulin resistance effects every cell in our body. But there is a great increase in insulin resistance when fat increase in the liver, and the liver fat is what we can have the more effect over.

 

[ickihun]

So you are saying there are no type 2's in Islamic countries?

Some muslims drink or and take meds!

 

[Mr_Pot]

Some muslims drink or and take meds!

In general they don't, so if your theory that diabetes is linked to alcohol consumption was true we would expect Arabic countries to have the least number of diabetics per head of population, not among the highest. Saudi Arabia for example is ranked 3rd for diabetics but alcohol is illegal in that country.
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SH.STA.DIAB.ZS/rankings

 

[Guzzler]

My parents never drank alcohol. My older sister was alcoholic but was not T2. I have been teetotal for 25 years and yet I am T2. I live in a multi ethnic community and can say that I have seen those of the Islamic faith who partake in smoking and drinking and those who do not. I am not aware through my reading of anyone who blames alcohol alone for their diagnosis.

I do not understand your 'egg and sperm' comment @ickihun could you clarify for me please?

 

[Triceraptors]

Fair enough. Toxic thyroid nodules can also cause elevations, but TSH, I think, would go down over a period. Maybe years depending on how far out your FT3/FT4 are. Cabbage is another veggy. I know someone that kept her Graves in check with LOTs of cabbage until it went into remission after a few years. You might look into bone loss - getting a DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry) bone density test now as a marker for future comparison - can be a good idea. HyperT can cause bone loss and resistance training is something you can do to slow it down. DEXA is not that expensive but endo might poo-poo it given he already doesn't think thyroid is an issue. But you have to have a marker for comparison if you're going to spot the problem.

Thanks for the advice, going to get some cabbage and hopefully sauerkraut or kimchi.

Well, I can tell you that my FT4 was 1 point lower 6 months ago with the same TSH value and I felt functional. Now it is 1 point higher with the same TSH and I feel horrendously bad. No one measured my FT3, but I bet it is higher as well. Time to load up on some anti-thyroid herbs and teas and foods, because maybe it is a coincidence, but I was eating brocolli almost every day. I stopped all carbs for a few weeks due to diabetes and now have hyperthyroid symptoms. Maybe brocolli was keeping things at bay hehe.