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How it used to be

H

hanadr

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soaps on telly and people talking about the characters as if they were real.
Is there anyone out there, who has been diagnosed a Long time ( say over 30 years) who can remember what advice they were given and who would be willing to share? T1 or T2
I got a PM from a comparative newbie, which hurt my feelings and was obvious that the pm'er only knows modern advice.
 
Thanks guys. I have read your fascinating references.
I was thinking back to when T1was diagnosed in the 70s. He was told to take a certain amount of insulin( once a day initially) and not given much in the way of diet instruction.
I think it may have been down to the local consultant. I know other diabetics were learning "exchanges"
Of course there wasn't much in the way of home monitoring either. I don't remember when he was first given Urine testing tablets( they consisted of Benedicts reagent and sodium hydroxide).
Eventually urine sticks were dispensed and then BM sticks for blood( I've noticed nurses still talking about BM, which I think just stand for Boehringer Mannheim( who made them).
These had one advantage. You could cut them into narrower sticks and spin them out. The reading by eye depended on our own vision. I remember my vet brother getting them for us and then me( because of my steady hands) carefully cutting them into 3..
Over the years, the number and type of insulin injections has changed. T1 did ask receently to be sent on a course and was told our PCT doesn't do them and he got half an hour with a rather dippy dietitian, which he didn't find very useful at all.
Those newly diagnosed, although rightly shocked and probably scared too, have no idea how much worse things could be.
Thanks to Richard Bernstein for getting the BG meters out into patient use.
 
Hi Hanna

When I was dignosed just over 20 years ago I ws put onto 2 injections a day, which included a mixing a long acting with a short acting (the then short acting) I was required to inject at least 1/2 before I ate... Injection where taken before breakfast and before tea...

I was put on the exchange system where 10g of carbs = one exchange... You were given a set amount of exchanges for the day spead over 3 main meals and 3 snacks...

The dietitian worked out the amount of carbs per day and meal ect, at first it was suggested that I required 180g of carbs per day, or 18 exchanges,

Breakfast 4 exchanges
snack 2 exchanges
dinner 4 exchanges
snack 2 exchanges
tea 4 exchanges
supper 2 exchanges

I tried this for a week, and it was far too much food to eat, so a rethink and this was reduced down to 120g of carbs 3, 1, 3, 3, 2...

I was told to eat at the same times (nightmare) through out the day, to avoid sugary foods eat homemeal type food such as pasta, pastry ect... Fresh fruit, even a measure of fruit juice if I didn't feel hungry at snack time and plenty of vegetables and salad ingredients as these were considered freebies.. with the exception of swede and potatoes, grill food rather than fry... cook using oils rather than lard... The encouragement of dry roasting or roasting my roast spuds rather than roasting in beef dripping must admit fell on deaf ears then and still do...

I was given sources of where to find information on how to adapt recipes so that they were diabetic friendly, i.e swapping sugar for sweetners etc...

My husband was told very similar to what I had been told/taught 10 years earlier, they also worked his exhange's out from what he would normally eat in one day...

I think the only real difference was the equipment and insulin used..

I started with standardised insulin, disposible syringes and BM test strips..

He started with glass syringes, chemical lab test tube urine test kit, and his insulin came in different strengths, that he had to calculate and mix together...
 
Restricted yess, but the Lines diet certainly wasn't as nearly as restricted as some lowcarb diets.
'In 1925 in the early days of insulin, it was usual to give equal numbers of black and red portions, for example, ten black and ten red, providing 100 g carbohydrate/approximately 1500 calories; this was the line ration diet.'

'As insulin became more available, more blacks (carbohydrate) were given than reds. As each black portion contained 10 g carbohydrate and 40 calories and each red (protein and fat) 111 calories the scheme could be used to supply any number of calories for any type of diet'


'For patients on insulin, the diet should start with 15 black portions/ten red portions and distributed to balance the action of whichever type of insulin used (see Table 2). More black portions, 20 or 25, would be required for a patient with an active physical life.'

'For patients needing to lose weight, the usual diet prescription was 100 g carbohydrate/1000 calories.'

Incidently the author of the lines diet RD Lawrence was a type 1 (diagnosed just before insulin was 'discovered') and the co founder of the BDA (diabetes UK).

If you have some time.You might also like to look at changes from the professional point of view here are 20+ accounts from doctors, dietitians, nurses etc who trained from the 40s onwards
http://www.diabetes-stories.com/research-all.asp
Harry Keen is very interesting since he was involved with all sorts of developments
Patricia Torrens describes the Lines diet in action and moves forward a little
Gillian Mcguinness describes the exchange diet and subsequent thinking.
 
Thanks for the interscience link, pheonix, it was fascinating.

I was diagnosed in the early '80s and, if memory serves, was started on pre-mix insulins twice a day before breakfast and dinner. I remember the exchange system but not a prescribed diet to follow. The exchanges were more of a ready-reckoner so that one could adapt insulin doses to dietary preferences. I suppose it was quite flexible in that sense. Was anyone else told to use 'reverse testing'? It made no sense to me at all, so I ignored it completely. If I recall, it had something to do with not increasing your dose if you showed glycosuria, but to wait till the following dose instead?

The premixes were pretty unsophisticated though. Lunch was sometimes a bit of a risky affair - delay too long and the blood glucose could come tumbling down. The urinalysis regime even then seemed terribly crude, like a kids chemistry set that you peed on twice a day. My memory is that it really only told you when you'd screwed up, and without a bolus insulin there was ****** all you could do about it if you had. You kids today don't know you're born! :lol:

Basal / bolus was the big breakthrough I think, as was the electronic bg meter. Diabetes suddenly went space-age.

Unlike the dietary advice unfortunately, which went dark-age at around the same time.

All the best,

fergus
 
Fergus
You got similar dietary advice to T1 husband then?
i.e. Not much at all.
Eat at the same time each day wasn't much use to him as he had to do occasional night shifts as a brewer. the medics didn't have any help for that one as I remember.
 
I know that you don’t rate the dietary advice given by the DUK, which is your prerogative…

But to trash this charity completely based on this prerogative, using it to imply that they have not helped or improved the diabetic life is being unfair.

Here are some of the campaigns that the DUK or Diabetic Association has fought and supported over the years…

Implementing insulin pens for all insulin users on prescription
Implementing the inclusion of the needles on prescription
Implementation of Insulin Pump therapy and NICE guidelines

Implementation of Test Strips for T1 and T2 diabetics, and they still campaign for easier access to these for T2’s…

They were involved in the Discrimination Act, which helps to protect diabetics concerning employment and employers…


They have and are funding many different projects, research etc of diabetic care and treatment to find a cure, better treatment to improve the daily life and outcomes of the diabetic…

In fact they do a lot for the diabetic, and whether you think that haven’t, they have helped to improved your life and your outcome, as well as mine and all other diabetics

You may laugh at the DUK, because you disagree with there dietary advise, but think of some of the benefits that you have had, because they have fought on the behalf of the diabetic, your test strips for example? Who provide the funding so that others can research areas of diabetic control and medication…?


They might give what some perceive to be naff and misinformation concerning dietary advise, but this is only a small part of a very big far reaching charity that covers a lot more than dietary advise indeed..
 
They have and are funding many different projects, research etc of diabetic care and treatment to find a cure, better treatment to improve the daily life and outcomes of the diabetic…
Click to expand...

Perhaps their research should cover the dietary issue then and then the outcome for many would be a lot better than it is just now.
 
like this one?
Research studies in progress in Exeter


DRN 026 – this study compared the effects of a low carbohydrate diet versus a healthy eating diet in patients with Type 2 Diabetes. Analysis of the final data is ongoing and the results are being presented at the Diabetes UK conference in March 2009.
( funded at least in part by DUK )
 
Once again, clear and to the point.

I would be like you still killing myself at the behest of the NHS and DUK if I hadn't found this site and listened to all the debate, sometime heated, always passionate.

Long may that debate continue - only then will we learn from each other.

Ken.
 
If the answer is an automated "cut the carbs" 99% of the time then there can be no "healthy" discussion.

Why ask questions when one already knows the answer?

But then again, thankfully, there are people who do have or at least do their best to give a non-low-carb diet answer that is actually related to the question.

Like me there must be a lot of people who shy away from asking questions because they are afraid of starting yet another argument that has nothing whatsoever relating to their original question.

What we "newbies" need are proper answers and not "heated debates".

Happy easter to all.
 
Eric,

Every diabetic must ration his/her carb intake to help control their diabetes.How much depends on the individual person,their medication ,etc.Please do not confuse reduce carbs with low carbs.Yes there are quite a few who low carb on here i.e use less than 50 gm per day but equally there are many who eat a lot more than that and still achieve control.The debate will go on as long as there are diabetics!!!
 
Hi Sue,

I am not talking about the difference between "low-carb" and "reduced carbs" and I know enough not get myself confused about it. But there are people who seem to genuinely believe that the answer to every diabetic question is and will be "cut the carbs".

If the [cut the carbs] answer is not related to a question then why answer with "cut the carbs"?

"heated debates" are healthy but at the right time and the right place, reading about carbs (low or reduced) or how "bad" it is for humans in 99% of the threats, no matter what the subject, is getting out of hand and boring to say the least.
 
Eric,if you read that link that I put on about before insulin you will see that that was exactly what people had to do to survive diabetes back then.
 
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