How Low Should I Go

Listlad

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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I was told I was pre-diabetic like you and did a very similar adjustment in diet but it wasn't effective and I wish now I had got a monitor earlier. Got mine this weekend just gone and been on here asking advice ever since! it was £18 delivered with Prime and came with supply of testing strips. Worth it's weight in gold! I am finally seeing what various food choices do in my body!
Which one did you buy, Deborah? @Deborahdesylva
 
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Spl@

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
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Pre diabetes is a daft term if you ask me.

It's your body's sugar control on a knife edge. You can do nothing and go into full t2 with all its hassles.

Or do it my way and live as a t2 diabetic (mostly) and eat low carb. I mean low too. Typically 20 to 30g a day.

According to the docs I'm fine now. Personally I consider myself diabetic. Living as such will keep me much healthier and not stress my weakened pancreas.
 
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Listlad

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3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Pre diabetes is a daft term if you ask me.

It's your body's sugar control on a knife edge. You can do nothing and go into full t2 with all its hassles.

Or do it my way and live as a t2 diabetic (mostly) and eat low carb. I mean low too. Typically 20 to 30g a day.

According to the docs I'm fine now. Personally I consider myself diabetic. Living as such will keep me much healthier and not stress my weakened pancreas.
You seem to have had T2 symptoms?

That’s how I am viewing myself, sort of embryonic diabetic.

I had my gall bladder removed in 2005 and in the run up to that I had pancreatitis. So am not sure if my pancreas was weakened then. The surgeon said at the time that he thought it likely I would end up with diabetes.
 

Tophat1900

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If you are pre-diabetic then you have insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is imo a disease in itself, you are living in an unhealthy state that will get worse without intervention. It may or may not be classified as a disease, but this is just a precursor to diabetes and many other health issues, but it can be stopped. Low carb has proven to be very effective at stopping it. There are plenty of success stories on here and elsewhere. Some in this thread.

I'd be wanting a fasting insulin or c-peptide level (Blood test) to see how much insulin is circulating. Too much isn't good, but it can be fixed with diet as diet is causing the problem in most T2. IMO it's probably one of the most important tests you can get, yet few doctors are checking it.
 
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Without wishing to offend or unduly worry anyone, my own personal view is that prediabetes and diabetes are just two pins in the same graph of metabolic dysfunction. I do not believe that one day you reach a new number and suddenly you tip the scales into having a disease that you didn’t have the day before. The conditions are the same but one has a higher number attached to it than the other.
 

Listlad

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Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
If you are pre-diabetic then you have insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is imo a disease in itself, you are living in an unhealthy state that will get worse without intervention. It may or may not be classified as a disease, but this is just a precursor to diabetes and many other health issues, but it can be stopped. Low carb has proven to be very effective at stopping it. There are plenty of success stories on here and elsewhere. Some in this thread.

I'd be wanting a fasting insulin or c-peptide level (Blood test) to see how much insulin is circulating. Too much isn't good, but it can be fixed with diet as diet is causing the problem in most T2. IMO it's probably one of the most important tests you can get, yet few doctors are checking it.
Thanks Tophat. Why do you think doctors are not checking it? Budgetary constraints?
 

Listlad

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Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Without wishing to offend or unduly worry anyone, my own personal view is that prediabetes and diabetes are just two pins in the same graph of metabolic dysfunction. I do not believe that one day you reach a new number and suddenly you tip the scales into having a disease that you didn’t have the day before. The condition is the same but one has a higher number attached to it than the other.
Again you seem to make sense or at least your post reflects my thinking. My GP seems to feel there is a distinct difference and I cannot help but think it is partly budget driven.
 

daisy1

Legend
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26,457
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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Cruelty towards animals.
@Listlad
Hello Listlad and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it interesting and helpful.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:
  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

  • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why

  • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
 

Tophat1900

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Messages
2,407
Type of diabetes
Type 3c
Treatment type
Other
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Thanks Tophat. Why do you think doctors are not checking it? Budgetary constraints?

I just don't think there is a very good understanding of it. Or they are are not aware of its importance or both. Some are, but I think a lot are not.
 

Tophat1900

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,407
Type of diabetes
Type 3c
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Uncooked bacon
Without wishing to offend or unduly worry anyone, my own personal view is that prediabetes and diabetes are just two pins in the same graph of metabolic dysfunction. I do not believe that one day you reach a new number and suddenly you tip the scales into having a disease that you didn’t have the day before. The conditions are the same but one has a higher number attached to it than the other.

Yes, pre diabetic or diabetic, the body is living in a state of insulin resistance. The degree of it depends on your results.
 

kokhongw

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,394
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
As @Tophat1900 and @Jim Lahey had pointed out, metabolic dysfunction is a continuum...there is really little distinction between prediabetes and diabetes...especially when we look at the post meal insulin response rather than the glucose response. It is this chronic excessive demand on insulin that leads to a whole host of issues down stream...

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/newbie-guide-to-t2d.1858/

Kraft-Curves-Cummins.png
 

Listlad

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Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi and welcome,

As the others have said, a glucose meter will become your best friend and will tell you instantly what your food choices have done to your blood sugar levels, giving you the chance to lower your carbs to a level your body can cope with.

Do ask for print outs of your last test results, and the next ones and all subsequent ones. This is important and it isn't just your Hba1c that matters, it is also cholesterol, kidney and liver functions. You really need all this information. It is never wise to accept what a doctor or nurse says. Hearing things like "normal" or "fine" isn't good enough because you may be teetering on the edge of normal and need to know by how much. All you need to do is ring the receptionist and ask for them. If you are in England you can also ask if your surgery puts test results on line and how to register for this.

I personally would forget about brown rice and wholemeal foods. They have just as many carbs as the white varieties and will raise your glucose levels just the same. Same with fruit juices and especially potatoes, including jackets..
Okay so my two previous readings for A1c test were both 41 so just marginal.
 

Spl@

Well-Known Member
Messages
513
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Humans that only take.
Don't think of it as low.

I'd regard it as a good early warning. A sensible reduction in your carb intake may be all you need.

You could do that with smaller portions. My 1c was 47. After 4months of lchf I dropped the better part of 3 stone. My 1c is now 31 and I'm in no mood to go back.
 
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Listlad

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Don't think of it as low.

I'd regard it as a good early warning. A sensible reduction in your carb intake may be all you need.

You could do that with smaller portions. My 1c was 47. After 4months of lchf I dropped the better part of 3 stone. My 1c is now 31 and I'm in no mood to go back.
Thanks SPL. Probably what I wanted to hear I.e. that I do not need to go all the way and ditch carbs completely and more a case of reducing the carbs....

I have tended to eat large portions in the past and can see scope for reducing carb portions to better levels for my circumstances.

I have just googled lchf and many examples contain advocados which I am not too keen on :). But the doc mentioned them yesterday.
 
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Spl@

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Messages
513
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Humans that only take.
Thanks SPL. Probably what I wanted to hear I.e. that I do not need to go all the way and ditch carbs and more a case of reducing the carbs....

You need a meter. No way round that.

Once you have one you will see what you can and cannot eat. When I was testing food, rice really doesn't affect me much. Bread or worse, alcohol (sucks to be me eh) are bad. Alcohol really is a high days and holidays treat.

You need to know.
 
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Messages
19
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi @Deborahdesylva - is it a case of acquiring a sample of blood from the device using a pin prick method and then spotting the blood onto a test paper?
Yes that's just right. But the paper is a little testing strips already put in the machine by you just before pricking and as soon as blood touches it counts down from 10 and gives a reading. It seems very good. I tried to reuse a needle though to save time and now I've got a purple sore finger lol it comes with about 100 strips I think and quite a lot of lancets (pins in plastic).
 
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Listlad

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Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
You need a meter. No way round that.

Once you have one you will see what you can and cannot eat. When I was testing food, rice really doesn't affect me much. Bread or worse, alcohol (sucks to be me eh) are bad. Alcohol really is a high days and holidays treat.

You need to know.
I see. I don’t touch alcohol now and that has been the case for about 12 years. Only very very occasionally. But it looks like I am heading towards getting a meter. Thanks.