How Low Should I Go

[Listlad]

Yes that's just right. But the paper is a little testing strips already put in the machine by you just before pricking and as soon as blood touches it counts down from 10 and gives a reading. It seems very good. I tried to reuse a needle though to save time and now I've got a purple sore finger lol it comes with about 100 strips I think and quite a lot of lancets (pins in plastic).

So a new pin every time?

 

[bulkbiker]

So a new pin every time?

I change mine about every 3 months.. If I remember..

 

[Listlad]

I change mine about every 3 months.. If I remember..

Thanks, when you say high fat, are we talking belly pork for example or are we talking dairy fat or both?

I have an issue with fatty and oily foods as I no longer have a gall bladder. So digesting fresh mackerel for example can be difficult.

 

[Mbaker]

Many full blown diabetics (reversed / managing / in remission, whatever the stage) don't ditch carbs completely. I eat all available fruit ending in berry. I eat green beans, asparagus, greens of any sort, Bokchoi, courgettes, butternut squash and carrots (the last 2 many cant tolerate). I replace wheat flour with coconut flour to make pancakes.

A complete removal of carbs is called Zero Carb or Carnivore diet, which is great as an elimination diet for chronic and difficult to resolve conditions, or for some a permanent lifestyle.

You will not know what your thresholds are for complications, so it is a choice as to what you are prepared to do and maintain. Some of those who had answered are in the camp of maximum optimisation for their body (I subscribe to this), others have a more liberal view, others somewhere between. Whichever dial point you chose I would say learn the possible impacts of the choices.

 

[Listlad]

Many full blown diabetics (reversed / managing / in remission, whatever the stage) don't ditch carbs completely. I eat all available fruit ending in berry. I eat green beans, asparagus, greens of any sort, Bokchoi, courgettes, butternut squash and carrots (the last 2 many cant tolerate). I replace wheat flour with coconut flour to make pancakes.

A complete removal of carbs is called Zero Carb or Carnivore diet, which is great as an elimination diet for chronic and difficult to resolve conditions, or for some a permanent lifestyle.

You will not know what your thresholds are for complications, so it is a choice as to what you are prepared to do and maintain. Some of those who had answered are in the camp of maximum optimisation for their body (I subscribe to this), others have a more liberal view, others somewhere between. Whichever dial point you chose I would say learn the possible impacts of the choices.

Thanks for that.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks, when you say high fat, are we talking belly pork for example or are we talking dairy fat or both?

I have an issue with fatty and oily foods as I no longer have a gall bladder. So digesting fresh mackerel for example can be difficult.

I'd go for pork belly yes ... dairy fat too I have cream in coffee instead of milk for example but only a tablespoon.. salmon instead of mackerel maybe.. There seem to be a lot who can eat higher fat foods with no gallbladder but I have little to no knowledge of that.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi I have prediabetes as diagnosed by my GP. I am trying to get to grips with managing it but finding it difficult to work out how far to go with carb suppression in the diet. Just now I have moved over to brown rice and brown bread, Jacket potato’s, mainly because advice that I read or received suggests I should do this. Am also using sweetener instead of sugar in everything I can possibly have a say in. And cutting out chocolates, cakes and sweets. I have also reduced the amount of dried fruits and fruit juice that I previously have indulged in.

I asked my GP to give me access to an NHS dietician but was turned down on the grounds of not being heavy enough.

I am due a 3 month non fasting blood test (HbA1c ?) in a few weeks and I too cannot remember my last test results but my GP assures me it is within the Prediabetes window.

My question is essentially, how low do I need to go with the the low carb diet?

Hi @Listlad ,

Welcome! Lots of people have already chimed in, so I'm probably going to repeat stuff here and there. Sorry in advance! Couple of things I'd like to touch on:

1. Brown or white indeed doesn't matter. A carb is a carb, and whether there's more fibres or not doesn't matter much, as it still will have to be processed out, and your insulin isn't quite doing that very well anymore. Potatoes, bread, cereals, corn, pasta, rice, fruits (save for berries, tomatoes, starfruit and the dreaded avocado) aren't going to do you any favors, no matter what colour they are.
   
2. Prediabetes really is a gradation of T2; means you're headed to full-blown diabetes if you don't do something about it, but it's still relatively low enough not to cause complications as yet. You are insulin resistant though, and will in all likelyhood be getting worse if you don't change your diet or get onto medication.
3. If you want to know what to eat, do check dietdoctor.com. There's loads of avocado everywhere, I know, but it's not a dietary requirement. Just does have a lot of stuff like potassium, and fats which would make you feel full. But if you have to choose between a salad with all sorts and avocado which you hate, or a salad with all sorts with a boiled egg... Choose what makes you happier. (If you enjoy what's on your plate, a lifetime's diet is a lot more doable!). By the way, I don't like it much on its own either, but when tossed in a salad with other strong flavours, it's fine, hardly notice it's there except that I feel full afterwards.
   
4. How low you need to go, well, your meter'll tell you. Test before a meal and 2 hours after first bite, and if you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, it was carbier than you could handle. Change the lancets regularly. (I use mine for eons, until sticking my finger hurts because it's blunt; then I get a new one. )
5. Extra dark chocolate (85% and higher) is fine. So you don't have to get rid of chocolate alltogether. And there's cake recepies on dietdoctor.com which are low carb, should you be inclined to do some baking yourself.
   
6. In the a.m. I just have a cup of tea, so my husband and I can still have breakfast together and start our day at the table. At works he eats whatever he likes, and I'm at home with my tuna salad. In the evening I cook for the both of us, though I might double up on the veggies (and maybe meat), and skip the spuds. It's still one meal to cook, I just don't have the potatoes. Not too much bother at all. (You might want to look up fathead pizza)
7. Dried fruits aren't doing you much good... Maybe have some beries and nuts instead? If you need something to munch on, try cheese, pork scratchings, olives, nuts, a few squares of extra dark chocolate, something like that. Way, way better than fruits. Fruit juice is just fructose and glucose without fibres or fats to slow down the uptake: it will make you spike hard and fast. Maybe better have some tea instead. (Don't worry about vitamins, you'll get enough if you up your vegetable-intake)

Foods that won't spike you: Meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, bacon, bacon and bacon, cheese, nuts, full fat greek yoghurt, butter, cream, olives, extra dark chocolate etc etc...

So you could eat, without issue:
Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonaise, capers, olives and avocado
Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.

Hope something in this load of babble helps. You'll be okay, you're in a good place here.
Again, welcome,
Jo

 

[Listlad]

I'd go for pork belly yes ... dairy fat too I have cream in coffee instead of milk for example but only a tablespoon.. salmon instead of mackerel maybe.. There seem to be a lot who can eat higher fat foods with no gallbladder but I have little to no knowledge of that.

I can eat higher fat stuff but there is a limit and I have found mackerel tough even though I quite like it. I have in the past tried to steer off fatty meats. My wife’s favourite food is belly of pork, but I never share it with her. Perhaps I will now but in small quantities.

 

[Member496333]

I read somewhere that the gallbladder thing with dietary fat is often only a problem during the transitional period. Although I have no idea if that’s true.

 

[Listlad]

Hi @Listlad ,

Welcome! Lots of people have already chimed in, so I'm probably going to repeat stuff here and there. Sorry in advance! Couple of things I'd like to touch on:

1. Brown or white indeed doesn't matter. A carb is a carb, and whether there's more fibres or not doesn't matter much, as it still will have to be processed out, and your insulin isn't quite doing that very well anymore. Potatoes, bread, cereals, corn, pasta, rice, fruits (save for berries, tomatoes, starfruit and the dreaded avocado) aren't going to do you any favors, no matter what colour they are.
   
2. Prediabetes really is a gradation of T2; means you're headed to full-blown diabetes if you don't do something about it, but it's still relatively low enough not to cause complications as yet. You are insulin resistant though, and will in all likelyhood be getting worse if you don't change your diet or get onto medication.
3. If you want to know what to eat, do check dietdoctor.com. There's loads of avocado everywhere, I know, but it's not a dietary requirement. Just does have a lot of stuff like potassium, and fats which would make you feel full. But if you have to choose between a salad with all sorts and avocado which you hate, or a salad with all sorts with a boiled egg... Choose what makes you happier. (If you enjoy what's on your plate, a lifetime's diet is a lot more doable!). By the way, I don't like it much on its own either, but when tossed in a salad with other strong flavours, it's fine, hardly notice it's there except that I feel full afterwards.
   
4. How low you need to go, well, your meter'll tell you. Test before a meal and 2 hours after first bite, and if you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, it was carbier than you could handle. Change the lancets regularly. (I use mine for eons, until sticking my finger hurts because it's blunt; then I get a new one. )
5. Extra dark chocolate (85% and higher) is fine. So you don't have to get rid of chocolate alltogether. And there's cake recepies on dietdoctor.com which are low carb, should you be inclined to do some baking yourself.
   
6. In the a.m. I just have a cup of tea, so my husband and I can still have breakfast together and start our day at the table. At works he eats whatever he likes, and I'm at home with my tuna salad. In the evening I cook for the both of us, though I might double up on the veggies (and maybe meat), and skip the spuds. It's still one meal to cook, I just don't have the potatoes. Not too much bother at all. (You might want to look up fathead pizza)
7. Dried fruits aren't doing you much good... Maybe have some beries and nuts instead? If you need something to munch on, try cheese, pork scratchings, olives, nuts, a few squares of extra dark chocolate, something like that. Way, way better than fruits. Fruit juice is just fructose and glucose without fibres or fats to slow down the uptake: it will make you spike hard and fast. Maybe better have some tea instead. (Don't worry about vitamins, you'll get enough if you up your vegetable-intake)

Foods that won't spike you: Meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, bacon, bacon and bacon, cheese, nuts, full fat greek yoghurt, butter, cream, olives, extra dark chocolate etc etc...

So you could eat, without issue:
Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonaise, capers, olives and avocado
Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.

Hope something in this load of babble helps. You'll be okay, you're in a good place here.
Again, welcome,
Jo

I just noticed this. Thankyou very much for that comprehensive response. Yes, this forum seems to have plugged a lot of gaps for me. I was getting frustrated with my local GP and they would not allow me a visit to an NHS dietician. So I have managed to find out a lot of good advice here.

Do you eat rice, @JoKalsbeek , you mentioned cauliflower rice.

 

[Listlad]

I read somewhere that the gallbladder thing with dietary fat is often only a problem during the transitional period. Although I have no idea if that’s true.

Not sure what is meant by the transitional period. I had the op in 2005.

I do forget myself now and again and get tripped up by the missing gall bladder when I gorge on fatty foods. I get severe indigestion.

 

[Member496333]

Not sure what is meant by the transitional period. I had the op in 2005.

I do forget myself now and again and get tripped up by the missing gall bladder when I gorge on fatty foods. I get severe indigestion.

Sorry. I meant the transitional period as in that which one goes through when adapting to using fat as the primary source of fuel for the body. I guess in the context of the gallbladder it means the digestive system adapting to higher fat, rather than having anything to do with becoming keto-adapated or whatever. As I say, I’ve no idea if it’s even true

Edited above for clarity.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I just noticed this. Thankyou very much for that comprehensive response. Yes, this forum seems to have plugged a lot of gaps for me. I was getting frustrated with my local GP and they would not allow me a visit to an NHS dietician. So I have managed to find out a lot of good advice here.

Well, if its any consolation, I went to a dietician, she perscribed a low fat, high carb diet, and I went from obese to morbidly obese in about half a year, because I was insulin resistant and unable to deal with carbs, which she completely ignored in my file, and I didn't know about back then. She shrugged, told me I was just "one of those people" who can't lose weight, and sent me on my way.

If it wasn't for google, and people like Dr. Jason Fung, or this forum, or dietdoctor.com, I'd be on insulin now and getting dealt blame for it from my specialist, dietician etc. You're in good hands here.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Listlad
Might be worth you starting your own thread about LCHF and gallbladder issues as I'm sure there is more than one person without one on the forum but for the life of me can't remember who they are...

 

[Listlad]

Well, if its any consolation, I went to a dietician, she perscribed a low fat, high carb diet, and I went from obese to morbidly obese in about half a year, because I was insulin resistant and unable to deal with carbs, which she completely ignored in my file, and I didn't know about back then. She shrugged, told me I was just "one of those people" who can't lose weight, and sent me on my way.

If it wasn't for google, and people like Dr. Jason Fung, or this forum, or dietdoctor.com, I'd be on insulin now and getting dealt blame for it from my specialist, dietician etc. You're in good hands here.

I suppose it just confirms how difficult and complex the whole thing is for those that are confronted with these challenges. I hope that the recently talked about 10 year plan includes the beefing up of the support for those with diabetes related difficulties.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I suppose it just confirms how difficult and complex the whole thing is for those that are confronted with these challenges. I hope that the recently talked about 10 year plan includes the beefing up of the support for those with diabetes related difficulties.

I'd hope so. There's so much to be gained by proper nutritional education, both for patients and professionals. Honestly, if one of the specialists had clued me in about my prediabetes and what it meant, and that I could do something about it, I never would've become a diabetic. I don't mind eating the way I do now, I really do enjoy my meals, it's no suffering or sacrifice... I would've switched over in a heartbeat if I'd known. Ah well. Water under the bridge and all.

 

[Listlad]

@Listlad
Might be worth you starting your own thread about LCHF and gallbladder issues as I'm sure there is more than one person without one on the forum but for the life of me can't remember who they are...

I do okay without it. I just have be careful occasionally. Thankfully unless I forget myself, I have noticed little difference with or without it.

I'd hope so. There's so much to be gained by proper nutritional education, both for patients and professionals. Honestly, if one of the specialists had clued me in about my prediabetes and what it meant, and that I could do something about it, I never would've become a diabetic. I don't mind eating the way I do now, I really do enjoy my meals, it's no suffering or sacrifice... I would've switched over in a heartbeat if I'd known. Ah well. Water under the bridge and all.

It will probably happen in time. I expect the pudding tax to be applied in the not too distant future, for example. And get the feeling that nutritional education will be more available in the years ahead.

 

[Mbaker]

Hi @Listlad ,

Welcome! Lots of people have already chimed in, so I'm probably going to repeat stuff here and there. Sorry in advance! Couple of things I'd like to touch on:

1. Brown or white indeed doesn't matter. A carb is a carb, and whether there's more fibres or not doesn't matter much, as it still will have to be processed out, and your insulin isn't quite doing that very well anymore. Potatoes, bread, cereals, corn, pasta, rice, fruits (save for berries, tomatoes, starfruit and the dreaded avocado) aren't going to do you any favors, no matter what colour they are.
   
2. Prediabetes really is a gradation of T2; means you're headed to full-blown diabetes if you don't do something about it, but it's still relatively low enough not to cause complications as yet. You are insulin resistant though, and will in all likelyhood be getting worse if you don't change your diet or get onto medication.
3. If you want to know what to eat, do check dietdoctor.com. There's loads of avocado everywhere, I know, but it's not a dietary requirement. Just does have a lot of stuff like potassium, and fats which would make you feel full. But if you have to choose between a salad with all sorts and avocado which you hate, or a salad with all sorts with a boiled egg... Choose what makes you happier. (If you enjoy what's on your plate, a lifetime's diet is a lot more doable!). By the way, I don't like it much on its own either, but when tossed in a salad with other strong flavours, it's fine, hardly notice it's there except that I feel full afterwards.
   
4. How low you need to go, well, your meter'll tell you. Test before a meal and 2 hours after first bite, and if you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, it was carbier than you could handle. Change the lancets regularly. (I use mine for eons, until sticking my finger hurts because it's blunt; then I get a new one. )
5. Extra dark chocolate (85% and higher) is fine. So you don't have to get rid of chocolate alltogether. And there's cake recepies on dietdoctor.com which are low carb, should you be inclined to do some baking yourself.
   
6. In the a.m. I just have a cup of tea, so my husband and I can still have breakfast together and start our day at the table. At works he eats whatever he likes, and I'm at home with my tuna salad. In the evening I cook for the both of us, though I might double up on the veggies (and maybe meat), and skip the spuds. It's still one meal to cook, I just don't have the potatoes. Not too much bother at all. (You might want to look up fathead pizza)
7. Dried fruits aren't doing you much good... Maybe have some beries and nuts instead? If you need something to munch on, try cheese, pork scratchings, olives, nuts, a few squares of extra dark chocolate, something like that. Way, way better than fruits. Fruit juice is just fructose and glucose without fibres or fats to slow down the uptake: it will make you spike hard and fast. Maybe better have some tea instead. (Don't worry about vitamins, you'll get enough if you up your vegetable-intake)

Foods that won't spike you: Meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, bacon, bacon and bacon, cheese, nuts, full fat greek yoghurt, butter, cream, olives, extra dark chocolate etc etc...

So you could eat, without issue:
Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonaise, capers, olives and avocado
Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.

Hope something in this load of babble helps. You'll be okay, you're in a good place here.
Again, welcome,
Jo

Great post.

 

[bulkbiker]

I suppose it just confirms how difficult and complex the whole thing is for those that are confronted with these challenges. I hope that the recently talked about 10 year plan includes the beefing up of the support for those with diabetes related difficulties.

Nope..

 

[Fo]

Hello
I am pre Diabetic and followed the advise on the forum and bought a monitor last week. I am so glad I did, it really is what we eat that is the problem. Slowly realising and getting to know the best foods to eat to prevent diabetes. X