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HYPO buffer with LCHF

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by jack412, Dec 17, 2014.

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  1. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    #1 jack412, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:44 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2014
  2. diamondnostril

    diamondnostril Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jack . . .

    This is what I experience every day, and is central to my strategy for safely managing my T1 Diabetes.

    I live on my own, and hugely appreciate the extra safety buffer that Ketosis provides.

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-t1-changes-to-hypos.68062/#post-688999

    I have been embarrassed to mention it so many times on this forum; I thought that probably many members just got fed up with my oft-repeated boring topic. But on the other hand I really really wanted to spread the message, because it seems such an inherently safe way to manage T1. I'm very glad that at least a couple of others also mention it. :) :) :)

    Regards,
    Antony
     
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  3. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    don't be embarrassed.., sing out loud :)
    people need to know this stuff, it could even save a life

    perhaps some would even like to share their stories
     
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  4. AlexMBrennan

    AlexMBrennan Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    "again very circumstantial [data]"
    Excuse me if I don't immediately jump at that
     
  5. LucySW

    LucySW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Ah Jack. Yes it does look that way, but - prepare for the STORM that will come your way for daring to say so. You bored?

    You could have a look at what Tim200os said on here.

    That article dates from 1980. Anything a bit recent? Hey ho, what fun it is to pass one's days on the diabetes forum ...

    Lucy
     
    #5 LucySW, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:55 PM
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  6. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    I came across the video and remember it being talked about, so I thought it's own thread might be worthwhile, it's nice to have what people know happen shown on a graph

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15975714
    Ketogenic diet reduces hypoglycemia-induced neuronal death in young rats.
    Hypoglycemia is an important complication of insulin treatment in diabetic children and may contribute to lasting cognitive impairment. Previous studies demonstrated that 21-day-old rats (P21) subjected to brief, repetitive episodes of hypoglycemia sustain cortical neuronal death.

    The developing brain is capable of utilizing alternative energy substrates acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. In these studies we tested the hypothesis that the developing brain adapted to ketone utilization and provided with ketones during hypoglycemia by eating a ketogenic diet would sustain less brain injury compared to littermates fed a standard diet. Supporting this hypothesis, P21 rats weaned to a ketogenic diet and subjected to insulin-induced hypoglycemia at P25 had significantly less neuronal death than rats on a standard diet. This animal model may provide insight into

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14604265
    Ketones: metabolism's ugly duckling.
    Ketones were first discovered in the urine of diabetic patients in the mid-19th century; for almost 50 years thereafter, they were thought to be abnormal and undesirable by-products of incomplete fat oxidation. In the early 20th century, however, they were recognized as normal circulating metabolites produced by liver and readily utilized by extrahepatic tissues. In the 1920s, a drastic "hyperketogenic" diet was found remarkably effective for treatment of drug-resistant epilepsy in children. In 1967, circulating ketones were discovered to replace glucose as the brain's major fuel during the marked hyperketonemia of prolonged fasting. Until then, the adult human brain was thought to be entirely dependent upon glucose. During the 1990s, diet-induced hyperketonemia was found therapeutically effective for treatment of several rare genetic disorders involving impaired neuronal utilization of glucose or its metabolic products. Finally, growing evidence suggests that mitochondrial dysfunction and reduced bioenergetic efficiency occur in brains of patients with Parkinson's disease (PD) and Alzheimer's disease (AD). Because ketones are efficiently used by mitochondria for ATP generation and may also help protect vulnerable neurons from free radical damage, hyperketogenic diets should be evaluated for ability to benefit patients with PD, AD, and certain other neurodegenerative disorders.
     
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    #6 jack412, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:23 PM
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  7. anna29

    anna29 Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    Please read with wise caution as how do you propose to treat a severe unconcious hypo ?
    If isolated on your own and the 'promise buffer given here' totally fails ?
    Yep - this could happen .

    Type1's can and do vary within their own diabetes performance daily .
    Diabetes does its own tricky thing each and every day .

    Each person is unique and there are certainly no firm guarantees present
    within this data .

    Please discuss this data with your GP/DSN/Consultant if unsure .
    Data is data - the real reality of own circumstances can be very different .
    Best to remain wise and err on the side of caution .
     
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  8. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    as always ask your Dr,

    there are 2 Dr's saying this, it's not my unfounded opinion that I'm presenting
    there has been several people posting anecdotal information about LCHF and their hypo's are less severe, I though the video and book along with a couple of studies, about their observations would be welcomed

    I think this is the purpose of the post to err on the side of caution, a ketogenic diet may provide a buffer by having 2 fuels the brain is using, which may reduce the bad symptoms of a hypo, as said by some members here.
    I guess you would treat your BG as you always treated your BG, and treat hypos as they appeared,,no one is encouraging running hypo level BG or ignoring hypos
     
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    #8 jack412, Dec 17, 2014 at 5:02 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2014
  9. anna29

    anna29 Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    Promoting to run levels so low is fraught with serious risks here .

    Please - seek and ask your GP/DSN advice on this data .

    Let the HCP'S conclude this matter with DCUK members
    health and safety in mind .
    Data posted as info is welcomed to read here - but to try to entice
    or insist members to do this as the only way forward isn't acceptable !

    Please see the forum rules on this matter.
     
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  10. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    So what your saying it's safe for insulin dependant diabetics to go down as low as 1.4mmol provided they follow a ketogenoc diet, that I'm afraid is dangerous advice and has no purpose on a forum such as this, it will lead members into a false sense of security. as a diet controlled type 2 jack you know nothing about how dangerous low bg can be for a type 1 diabetic, and IMHO this thread should be removed.
     
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  11. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    @anna29 , there seems to be some misunderstanding, I'm not promoting running low levels, in fact I have said as such
     
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  12. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    did you read my "I guess you would treat your BG as you always treated your BG, and treat hypos as they appeared,,no one is encouraging running hypo level BG or ignoring hypos"
     
  13. douglas99

    douglas99 I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I thought there was a policy on type 2's offering advice to type 1's?
    Particularly as they couldn't possibly have any knowledge of the subject.
     
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  14. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    The thraed is dangerous and misleading Jack to new and old members alike, better not to post this nonsense in the type 1 section of the forum.
     
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  15. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    Quite, hence my replies to Jack.
     
  16. anna29

    anna29 Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    Your thread indicates this totally jack .
    Safe to run levels this low ! ?

    Advice as this ?
    You are not medical trained Jack .

    Read the forum rules on this matter .

    You are promoting and encouraging this intently within - your thread .
    The 2 doctors you speak of - do not treat all our members here .
     
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  17. anna29

    anna29 Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    This thread is being locked as too dangerous and
    potentially harmful to members left open .

    Crazy BG levels for Type1 and some Type2's at 1.4mmol :eek:
    Data and buffer isn't fully means tested or guaranteed .
     
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