I think i might have hypoglycemia

[ghost_whistler]

I made the above post yesterday, and I still stand by it. Get hold of a meter and start testing at the times your symptoms appear. If you don't do that you have no evidence to present to a doctor, and quite honestly there is nothing anyone on here can do to help you. We aren't doctors, and we have no evidence other than your statements that you feel rubbish at certain times.

Fair enough, but this applies to everyone surely?

While it's pragmatic to remind people that ad hoc diagnoses aren't a substitute for a health professional, doesn't the same apply to people's advice regarding diet?

I get that a lot of people claim sincerely they are benefitting greatly from a low carb diet of some kind, and if they are then more power to them, but as you say people here aren't doctors. So it's entirely possible my (or anyone's) GP could recommend a diet that is not low carb, or a different approach - and I'm sure if I told them that well meaning and kind people online had advised a low carb diet they would admonish me for taking the advice of people who are not doctors.

Interestingly, there was an interview with a woman on local radio this morning who, apparently, had reversed her diabetes with a sugar free diet, no mention of carbs (so i assume it was not low carb). Now I'm sure if carbs were pertinent she would have mentioned them also. I don't know what the difference between hypoglycemia and diabetes is, perhaps someone can tell me, so it may be that a low sugar diet is completely irrelevant.

 

[ghost_whistler]

We don't know! We are not doctors, please ask your GP.

I am not asking you to diagnose me, I'm trying to find out what other conditions exist that can explain these symptoms. If you don't know then that's fine, but I am not asking you to diagnose me

 

[ghost_whistler]

Generally we don't get hungry quickly on a low carb high fats meal, eg a 150g plate of roast pork belly lunch with no sides can last me till next day lunch...your mileage may vary...

At least I don't get the intense, ravenous, jittery hunger that comes 3-4 hours after a carbs laden meal...

weird, i felt that way after xmas dinner which had roast potatotoes.

Sometimes if i eat fish and chips i feel the same as well.

 

[zand]

I am not asking you to diagnose me, I'm trying to find out what other conditions exist that can explain these symptoms. If you don't know then that's fine, but I am not asking you to diagnose me

If you do have another condition that is causing this, then the best thing you can do is what @Bluetit1802 and others suggest and buy a meter and write a food diary. This info can help your GP with his/her diagnosis and this may get you the answer you want more quickly.

 

[kokhongw]

weird, i felt that way after xmas dinner which had roast potatotoes.

Sometimes if i eat fish and chips i feel the same as well.

When I have a plate of roast pork belly with a serving of white rice for lunch, say 12pm ...I will get very hungry by 4pm and need a tea break. But if I only have the roast pork without the rice...then I may feel hungry...but the hunger is not intense. I don't need to desperately look for food. I can make more rational food choices.

People who experience reactive hypoglycemia may not be considered diabetic yet. That is because they are still able to produce excessive insulin to lower overall blood glucose level to normal levels. And the delayed excessive insulin causes a sudden glucose drop. But they would already have significant insulin resistance. Over time as the insulin resistance increases or the beta cells gets further impaired/dysfunctional...there will not be sufficient insulin to drive down the glucose level...we are then clinically considered type 2 diabetic.

My earlier post also tried to explain the same.

See Dr Joseph Kraft's insulin charts. Taken from Dr Jason's Fung blog
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/understanding-joseph-kraft-diabetes-in-situ-t2d-24/

 

[Brunneria]

weird, i felt that way after xmas dinner which had roast potatotoes.

Sometimes if i eat fish and chips i feel the same as well.

The inclusion of fat in those meals will be what makes the difference. Fat increases satiety, slows digestion, reduces the high spike that carbs cause, and helps to even out glucose levels. This is why there is a difference between low carbing (LC), and low carbing with added fat (LCHF).

 

[ghost_whistler]

If you do have another condition that is causing this, then the best thing you can do is what @Bluetit1802 and others suggest and buy a meter and write a food diary. This info can help your GP with his/her diagnosis and this may get you the answer you want more quickly.

Great, and when the chemist opens following the holiday I can ask how cheap they are to buy. If they are sufficiently inexpensive I may be able to afford one.

 

[ghost_whistler]

The inclusion of fat in those meals will be what makes the difference. Fat increases satiety, slows digestion, reduces the high spike that carbs cause, and helps to even out glucose levels. This is why there is a difference between low carbing (LC), and low carbing with added fat (LCHF).

How much fat is recommended?

The NHS (and the British Heart Foundation) recommend against saturated fats. I have a GP appointment next wednesday and I doubt, if we discuss diets, they will go against established guidelines.

 

[ghost_whistler]

When I have a plate of roast pork belly with a serving of white rice for lunch, say 12pm ...I will get very hungry by 4pm and need a tea break. But if I only have the roast pork without the rice...then I may feel hungry...but the hunger is not intense. I don't need to desperately look for food. I can make more rational food choices.

People who experience reactive hypoglycemia may not be considered diabetic yet. That is because they are still able to produce excessive insulin to lower overall blood glucose level to normal levels. And the delayed excessive insulin causes a sudden glucose drop. But they would already have significant insulin resistance. Over time as the insulin resistance increases or the beta cells gets further impaired/dysfunctional...there will not be sufficient insulin to drive down the glucose level...we are then clinically considered type 2 diabetic.

My earlier post also tried to explain the same.

See Dr Joseph Kraft's insulin charts. Taken from Dr Jason's Fung blog
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/understanding-joseph-kraft-diabetes-in-situ-t2d-24/

Can people be hypoglycemic without becoming diabetic? What if they are only hypo not reactive-hypo?

 

[douglas99]

Great, and when the chemist opens following the holiday I can ask how cheap they are to buy. If they are sufficiently inexpensive I may be able to afford one.

I would have thought you would have done an internet search by now?
Not many of us on here buy from the local chemist if we're short of money.

 

[Brunneria]

How much fat is recommended?

The NHS (and the British Heart Foundation) recommend against saturated fats. I have a GP appointment next wednesday and I doubt, if we discuss diets, they will go against established guidelines.

I would say you need to do your own reading on the fat issue. Lots of different opinions across different dietary guidelines.
Thankfully the whole cholesterol-heart myth has been prettywell debunked, although lots of doctors don't seem to have noticed this

Personally, as a reactive hypoglycaemic of around 40 years duration, I rely on fat to control my blood glucose, appetite, and satiety, as I mentioned above.

The simplest way of explaining how it works for me is to view it as a seesaw.
Fat on one side, carbs on the other, with a nice standard amount of protein sitting in the middle of the seesaw.
The fewer carbs I eat, the hungrier I get, so I replace those carbs with a satisfying amount of filling fat - with the benefit of stable blood glucose.
Likewise, the more carbs I eat, the lower fat I need to go to avoid weight gain and nasty blood glucose swings with hypo episodes.

As an example, think of an ordinary meal of grilled chicken, vegetables and boiled potatoes.
I keep the chicken the same, and have green beans, courgettes (basically any non-root veg, because they are lower carb). The decision comes with the potatoes. Since I LCHF, the simplest solution is to drop the potatoes completely, have extra veg to fill the plate, and then put a dab of butter on them, or sprinkle some grated cheese on them. Sorted. The calorie deficit from the potatoes is covered by the fat, I feel full of veg, satisfied by the fat content, and I won't get hungry for hours.

Other people might use olive oil and herbs instead of butter and cheese, different fat, same effect.

As regards quantity of fat, just eat to your appetite. None of us want food queasily swimming in grease, but neither do we want to be hungry again a couple of hours after the meal.

 

[douglas99]

How much fat is recommended?

The NHS (and the British Heart Foundation) recommend against saturated fats. I have a GP appointment next wednesday and I doubt, if we discuss diets, they will go against established guidelines.

Who said you had to eat saturated fats in this thread?

 

[Brunneria]

Can people be hypoglycemic without becoming diabetic? What if they are only hypo not reactive-hypo?

Yes.
I have had reactive hypoglycaemia since childhood, but only became a type 2 diabetic in my 40s.

From the reading I have done, mild RH is very common as a pre-cursor to T2 (so mild that people just think their appetite is increasing, and RH is particularly common amongst people with hormone issues, such as PCOS, menopause, and PMT). One study I found - sorry, I have lost the link - found that in a random sample of around 1000 women, 40% of them experienced RH at least several times a month, but they tended to dismiss it as hunger or food cravings, and just had a snack and carried on their day).

Here is the link to a thread I started on the subject, back when we were asking for a forum section on RH.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...orum-section-on-reactive-hypoglycaemia.65454/
The post with the study links is about half way down the first page.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Who said you had to eat saturated fats in this thread?

What other fats are there? Cheese is saturated fats as are eggs and meat. Fatty fish is different as are certain nuts and oils, assuming they don't contain carbs.

The recipes on the diet doctor site are heavy in saturated fats (fried eggs and bacon for breakfast).

I had a look at the shopping list for their 2 week low carb introduction and it's way beyond my budget

 

[douglas99]

What other fats are there? Cheese is saturated fats as are eggs and meat. Fatty fish is different as are certain nuts and oils, assuming they don't contain carbs.

The recipes on the diet doctor site are heavy in saturated fats (fried eggs and bacon for breakfast).

I had a look at the shopping list for their 2 week low carb introduction and it's way beyond my budget

I've already answered your budget questions.
You appear to be very good with the internet, and have certainly been looking at many sites, and reading many conflicting views.
Re-read them as all list different types of fats, and foods.
The NHS (and the British Heart Foundation) you already quoted is a good guide for you to re-read initially.
Maybe you should wait until you see your doctor, and post up what course of action you have decided on then, based on all your research, and let us know if it has made any difference?

 

[ghost_whistler]

Yes.
I have had reactive hypoglycaemia since childhood, but only became a type 2 diabetic in my 40s.

From the reading I have done, mild RH is very common as a pre-cursor to T2 (so mild that people just think their appetite is increasing, and RH is particularly common amongst people with hormone issues, such as PCOS, menopause, and PMT). One study I found - sorry, I have lost the link - found that in a random sample of around 1000 women, 40% of them experienced RH at least several times a month, but they tended to dismiss it as hunger or food cravings, and just had a snack and carried on their day).

Here is the link to a thread I started on the subject, back when we were asking for a forum section on RH.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...orum-section-on-reactive-hypoglycaemia.65454/
The post with the study links is about half way down the first page.

Thanks.

I don't remember having these symptoms as a kid, but I can't be sure of course.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I've already answered your budget questions.
You appear to be very good with the internet, and have certainly been looking at many sites, and reading many conflicting views.
Re-read them as all list different types of fats, and foods.
The NHS (and the British Heart Foundation) you already quoted is a good guide for you to re-read initially.
Maybe you should wait until you see your doctor, and post up what course of action you have decided on then, based on all your research, and let us know if it has made any difference?

The diet doctor website was linked to from here; I had never heard of it before.

What would be helpful to see would be a low budget shopping list for LCHF. This is why i mentioned up front the difficulties of diets and recipes because they are not written for everyone. I'm sure the meals are lovely, but they are too exotic and too expensive for my tastes.

I'm not sure what you would like me to re read regarding the NHS and the BHF, both were pretty clear in their advice:

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/Eat-less-saturated-fat.aspx

https://www.bhf.org.uk/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2014/march/saturated-fats-explained

The latter says that Saturated fats increase cholestorol and " A high cholesterol level is linked to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, so that’s why current recommendations emphasise the importance of reducing the saturated fat in our diets."

Now, if they are wrong, or that information is out of date then by all means please correct me. But these two seem credible sources. The information I have seen regarding LCHF diets is that saturated fats are not bad for you. I do not know if their sources are as credible. The diet doctor links one article to the Sunday Express of all soources. Hardly reputable IMHO.

Clearly there are fats that are better than others, as recommended in diets likt he mediterranean style which also includes a lot of bread for example.

I'm not claiming that diet is good for diabetes or hypoglycemia.

I'm also not claiming to be an authority, I'm merely reporting what the established experts in the NHS and, hopefully, the BHF say. If they are wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Chook]

Here is a link to a thread on the Low Carb forum with a list of low carb foods that people buy. You will have to decide which are in the right price range for you. I found that since cutting out carbs I have been able to use the money I would have spent on those to buy more interesting foods that are suitable for me.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/a-few-asking-for-low-carb-food-lists.96321/

 

[Chook]

I really do think we are talking round in circles on this thread - @ghost_whistler you really ought to get a diagnosis before changing your diet. You need to present yourself to your doctor while still feeling poorly and with a record of what you have eaten and how it has made you feel - and blood glucose readings if possible. Once you know what (if anything) is wrong with you then you can consider whether there is a way to alleviate your symptoms by changing your diet.

 

[Lamont D]

The question about the possibility of having Hypoglycaemia and not have diabetes has been covered by @Brunneria. Except that it is common in females but much rarer in males.
It is quite normal in children and pregnant women.

I personally stay away from anything low fat, I eat a lot of saturated fats, especially in cooking. I had a variety of health problems whilst trying to eat with the so called healthy diet, that the NHS recommendation. My cholesterol and had warnings of heart trouble, a lot in my family. Also, my organs were going downhill, full of visceral fat.

This was because of the fats I was using and the carbs I was eating!
On a low carb diet you do have to balance with natural animal fats. Unless you are a vegetarian!
I have found that it is better for me.
My health has improved greatly since going low carb.