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I will just leave this here.......

Interesting! I found the second half particularly interesting. They do highlight there isn't data distinguishing types of diabetes in their quoted figures, or information on how well managed it was prior to hospitalisation. Also acknowledge that current strain in hospitals might result in less frequent glucose monitoring of hospitalised diabetics. I wonder if they'd still use CGM or Libre? I realise might not be advisable if glucose is high.

I wonder also what the figures are for those who have hyperglycaemia treated promptly? Would a non/pre diabetic or type 2 who wasn't previously on insulin be put on an insulin drip anyway to lower their blood glucose?

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to answer the question of whether anyone (diabetic or not) who is able to maintain target blood glucose levels throughout covid-19 infection is at a greater risk.

Hyperglycaemia and DKA seem to be regularly mentioned complications, but as the article suggests, would stringent following of sick day rules and being able to stay at home reduce risk of further complication?

So much unknown but I'm glad the article highlighted limitations and discussed them. Many just go for the sweeping statement headlines. Thanks for posting.
 
Did I read it correctly when it said anything over 6.5 % was more of a risk>? Isn't that an HBA1C of 47 or 48? (I get so confused with all these different numbers) If so is it stating "anything" in the diabetes range is a risk as if I remember correctly 47 and below is pre diabetes?
 
Max68 said:
Did I read it correctly when it said anything over 6.5 % was more of a risk>? Isn't that an HBA1C of 47 or 48? (I get so confused with all these different numbers) If so is it stating "anything" in the diabetes range is a risk as if I remember correctly 47 and below is pre diabetes?
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Pretty much, I think this was the cut off used to define who had hyperglycaemia and who didn’t. Though common sense would suggest the further into diabetic range you get the higher the risk, so the closer to it you can safely manage the better.
 
One issue might be that anyone who is intubated (the extreme form of ventilation used on the most serious cases) is sedated then fed via tubes, and might even be 'fed' via a drip, a drip of sucrose ...

A good reason for me to stay strictly low carb in spite of the tendency to snack when bored/confined to the house - so my T2 is well controlled just in case.
 
TriciaWs said:
One issue might be that anyone who is intubated (the extreme form of ventilation used on the most serious cases) is sedated then fed via tubes, and might even be 'fed' via a drip, a drip of sucrose ...

A good reason for me to stay strictly low carb in spite of the tendency to snack when bored/confined to the house - so my T2 is well controlled just in case.
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I'd be well and truly in trouble getting a sucrose drip!
 
HSSS said:
Is there an alternative drip feed that isn’t sucrose/glucose based? Ie a fat and protein based one?
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If it come to being tube fed \I| will be asking for nothing but fluids or eggs to be placed in that tube. A combo of veg oil and sugar won't help any kind of diabetic's chances of recovery.
Higher blood glucose is thought to both increase inflamtory response of the immune system. Diabetes also correlates with other metabolic conditions that are said to correlate with worse repsones to CoVid and of course it correlates with increasing age.
 
Hospitals seem pretty good at making type 2 diabetes ten times worse, so this is not at all surprising.
 
I have been holding back from saying this before as I know I will get slated for saying it. I am speaking from my experience and probably no-one else in the world will have the same experience but here goes.

I agree with you all that in theory carbs would be a bad thing to have. However when I had the virus I could not eat protein. The thought of it churned my stomach. When I tried it made me vomit. I didn't have a fever, just a mild raising of temperature. I was incredibly hungry and turned to carbs. My throat was so dry and sore I felt it was closing up so that I couldn't breathe. To keep it moist I ate. Drinking helped but food was better. During the long nights I sucked sweets in between bouts of coughing.

I was concentrating on breathing and staying alive. The future problems higher BGs might bring me weren't relevant if I died of COVID19. I wish I could have eaten healthy foods but just couldn't. I know some of you have, well done, you are better diabetics than me.

I read on another thread that one of the problems the medics have when patients are on ventilators is that they find it difficult to supply the patient enough energy to help them fight COVID19. In view of my own level of hunger I reckon that's right. This virus is very new and very different. None of us know what it will take to get us through it until we catch it.
 
zand said:
I will get slated for saying it.
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Hopefully not, you're talking from experience. I'm pleased you're here to tell us your experience. I hope you're fully recovered. Apart from there being mutations I wonder if the initial viral load has anything to do with outcomes?

zand said:
they find it difficult to supply the patient enough energy to help them fight COVID19.
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My greatest fear, apart from dying, is being given what doctors will tell me is my Basic Metabolic Rate. I'll have to insist that they weigh me every day (no chance)

I'm hoping that I can avoid catching this by staying indoors. Luckily we've managed to get the local co-op to do our shopping and deliver it. I've been shopping there for over 20 years in an effort to support local businesses. Might be payback time, and I'm very grateful.

Stay safe everyone.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
If it come to being tube fed \I| will be asking for nothing but fluids or eggs to be placed in that tube. A combo of veg oil and sugar won't help any kind of diabetic's chances of recovery.
Higher blood glucose is thought to both increase inflamtory response of the immune system. Diabetes also correlates with other metabolic conditions that are said to correlate with worse repsones to CoVid and of course it correlates with increasing age.
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Realistically what can they give instead if a person cannot eat. Ie what’s it called? I for one intended to take an a4 sheet of my wishes in with me should it get to that at any point. An actual description of what that alternative is would be useful.
 
zand said:
The future problems higher BGs might bring me
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My concern isn’t even for future problems. It’s the immediate ones whilst on the hospital bed and high glucose levels inhibiting healing and facilitating the virus actions.
But as you say I don’t know how I’d physically feel or cope. Just the order of preference and which treatments I think I would like trying on me. You tried proteins. It didn’t work for you. Next option turned to. Nothing to be slated there.
 
HSSS said:
My concern isn’t even for future problems. It’s the immediate ones whilst on the hospital bed and high glucose levels inhibiting healing and facilitating the virus actions.
But as you say I don’t know how I’d physically feel or cope. Just the order of preference and which treatments I think I would like trying on me. You tried proteins. It didn’t work for you. Next option turned to. Nothing to be slated there.
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I have a friend of a friend who had a much more mild cough than me. She didn't once think she had COVID19. After a month she had back pains and consulted her doctor who sent her to hospital. She had various tests and was told she had had the virus and the pains were from her kidneys. The pains have gone now. I was left with kidney pains too and I am wondering if I had had alot of protein to give me the energy I needed then these pains may have been worse for me. Maybe my body was protecting me from even more kidney damage by not allowing me to eat protein temporarily? Whatever the reason, the moment I opened the fridge and chose cheese I knew I was on the mend.:)
 
NicoleC1971 said:
If it come to being tube fed \I| will be asking for nothing but fluids or eggs to be placed in that tube. A combo of veg oil and sugar won't help any kind of diabetic's chances of recovery.
Higher blood glucose is thought to both increase inflamtory response of the immune system. Diabetes also correlates with other metabolic conditions that are said to correlate with worse repsones to CoVid and of course it correlates with increasing age.
Click to expand...

This is right on the money. It would make chances of recovery less likely imo. Possibly far less likely.
 
HSSS said:
Realistically what can they give instead if a person cannot eat. Ie what’s it called? I for one intended to take an a4 sheet of my wishes in with me should it get to that at any point. An actual description of what that alternative is would be useful.
Click to expand...

Ivor cummins discussed it in a podcast with someone, sorry, can't remember who but they have done tube feeding of eggs. It was a much better alternative because you are getting every nutrient you need minus all the rubbish. It may have been one of his covid podcasts and possibly with Dr.Paul Mason.
 
Covid 19 it is now thought able to infect and replicate in the gastrointestinal tract giving symptoms such as vomiting, Diarrhea and loss of apatite etc as well as the cough sore throat and breathing difficulties etc.

"The novel coronavirus disease is currently causing a major pandemic. It is caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2), a member of the Betacoronavirus genus that also includes the SARS‐CoV and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus. While patients typically present with fever and a respiratory illness, some patients also report gastrointestinal symptoms such as diarrhea, vomiting, and abdominal pain. Studies have identified the SARS‐CoV‐2 RNA in stool specimens of infected patients, and its viral receptor angiotensin converting enzyme 2 was found to be highly expressed in gastrointestinal epithelial cells. These suggest that SARS‐CoV‐2 can actively infect and replicate in the gastrointestinal tract. This has important implications to the disease management, transmission, and infection control. In this article, we review the important gastrointestinal aspects of the disease."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgh.15047

https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2020/04/09/gutjnl-2020-321195
 
Thought that I would add too this thread rather than start a new one, unless there is enough interest to start a new thread, but what are peoples thoughts on the research re the effect of ACE-Inhibitors and Angiotensin Receptor Blockers in Covid19?

I was looking at some videos on You Tube last night (not doing myself any favours!) and whilst I had heard of this I decided to look into it a bit deeper because I am on blood pressure meds. Turns out Amlodipine that I take is a calcium blocker, which hasn't been mentioned, bar not allegedly having as much effect on BP than the drugs above, but I was interested to hear, if I heard correctly, that ACE's and ARB's are used in the treatment of diabetes as well as Hypertension? I take Metformin so was unaware of this.

So whilst discussing the paper at the top of the thread with regard to potential reasons why diabetes is considered a risk factor with Covid19 along with Hypertension what do you think about possible ACE and ARB roles in this>?

After all could it be the diseases themselves that elevate that risk or are certain drugs (treatments) the possible culprits? I ask because in some studies certain illnesses are above some lung issues/diseases in the medical tables of risk it seems but Covid affects the lungs so why is that the case?

Thoughts?
 
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