Inflammation and Diet

[graj0]

A personal story on inflammation. Inflammation causes everything or at least so it would seem (not technically 100% accurate, but it seems that way). I was having lots of problems with sciatica and muscular spasms across the lower back. Where the two aches and pains met was really painful.
I have consulted a Nutritional Therapist for some years and she recommended Curcumin and KappArest. They may not have been a miracle cure but have made a big difference, enough for me to virtually give up cocodomol (depends how much work I do in the garden LOL).
One thing to bear in mind with anything like the nutritional additives is that some have the THR mark and some don't. THR means they have been granted Traditional Herbal Registration. THR is not straight forward but does mean that some testing has been done on what a lot of people consider to be natural.

 

[Winnie53]

@graj0 in the US we have something called Consumer Labs. For a small annual fee, we have access to their website and can research which nutritional supplements contain what is stated on the label - (they test them) - so we can now take supplements with greater confidence.

@CatLadyNZ , I just PM'd you.

 

[poshtotty]

the discussion in the other thread was partly about whether diet has an effect on inflammation, and whether there is any evidence to back it up.

Returning to the OP, my personal situation is known by a few here. I was diagnosed around the same with both T2 and rheumatoid arthritis (quite severe, having initially been incorrectly diagnosed and treated for osteoarthritis for several years). I'd always considered the RA to be the worst of my conditions since I had few symptoms of diabetes except rapid weight loss of almost 2 stone in less than 2 months, lack of appetite and overwhelming tiredness at the time of diagnosis.

I was on a nasty cocktail of drugs for the RA, including a self-administered weekly injection of methatrexate but my RA was still, according to the rheumatologist, "almost off the scale".

Reluctantly resigned to a life on nasty meds which were having no effect on my inflammed joints (mostly hands and feet, making walking and gripping difficult and painful) I decided to concentrate instead on my T2 and found this site, and was particularly interested in the LCHF forum, receiving tremendous help and support from some of the successful practitioners of it. After a few months of LCHF, and noticing a decrease in my joint pain and inflammation, I weaned myself firstly off the methatrexate injection, and eventually all RA meds (5 in total) plus simvastatin and cocodomol. Instead I converted entirely to LCHF and was already taking food supplements on the advice of my personal trainer who is also a registered nutritionist. I did my own research on the supplements and they rank 4th in this list https://www.multivitaminguide.org/best-multivitamin.html

I still take the supplements, and if I run out for a few days, I notice a flare-up in my joint inflammation and pain.

At my last rheumatology appointment in June this year, I was told my RA is now in remission and I am drug free, with the knowledge of my consultant, who admitted that a change of diet can also help the condition - something I don't ever remember being told on diagnosis 10 years ago!

So to answer the OP, yes! In my personal experience, diet does have an effect on joint inflammation. Quite simply, I believe my joints have returned to near normal since they began receiving enough healthy fats to lubricate them. Simples.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I believe diet has huge effect on inflamation..

 

[Celeriac]

To me, the first step, is not to reach for a nutritional supplement, but to overhaul the diet.

It seems pointless to me, to be forking out fortunes for nutritional supplements and alternative therapies, if you haven't done it. To me, that's like trying to build a house without foundations.

Regardless of whether you go low GI, LCHF, Paleo, Primal or whatever else works for you, the quality of the food matters.

I don't eat processed carbs at all. The only added sugars I consume are those in organic mayonnaise (too lazy to make my own) and Lindt Excellence 90% cocoa chocolate. I eat a lot of organic vegetables and herbs (some home-grown), a little organic fruit as a treat, and the rest of my diet is split between organic fats/oils and organic/wild protein eg organic lamb and chicken, wild salmon.

I've lost three stones, my leptin is working and so are my tastebuds. I can taste the natural sugars in tinned tomatoes, milk and butter, all of which taste sweet to me.

I firmly believe that reducing my exposure to carbohydrates, added sugar, pesticides, artificial flavourings/colourings and chemical preservatives by eating organic is a positive thing. A study in 2014 said that organic food is more nutritious.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/11/organic-food-more-antioxidants-study

I don't go ultra low with low carbing, I'm not obsessively counting carbs but it has made a big difference in my life. I think organic food ought to contribute to a less inflammatory diet.

 

[poshtotty]

To me, the first step, is not to reach for a nutritional supplement, but to overhaul the diet.

I'm not aware that anyone has yet said they are reaching for nutritional supplements in place of overhauling their diet. I choose to use them in combination with my mainly organic diet, which sounds very similar to yours.

Unfortunately my liver appears not to be functioning as well as it should perhaps because of previous medications and I'm now endeavouring to rely wholly on nutrition - diet and supplements - to heal my conditions. From experience, the combination of both seem to be having a positive effect.

 

[donnellysdogs]

To me, the first step, is not to reach for a nutritional supplement, but to overhaul the diet.

It seems pointless to me, to be forking out fortunes for nutritional supplements and alternative therapies, if you haven't done it. To me, that's like trying to build a house without foundations.

Regardless of whether you go low GI, LCHF, Paleo, Primal or whatever else works for you, the quality of the food matters.

I don't eat processed carbs at all. The only added sugars I consume are those in organic mayonnaise (too lazy to make my own) and Lindt Excellence 90% cocoa chocolate. I eat a lot of organic vegetables and herbs (some home-grown), a little organic fruit as a treat, and the rest of my diet is split between organic fats/oils and organic/wild protein eg organic lamb and chicken, wild salmon.

I've lost three stones, my leptin is working and so are my tastebuds. I can taste the natural sugars in tinned tomatoes, milk and butter, all of which taste sweet to me.

I firmly believe that reducing my exposure to carbohydrates, added sugar, pesticides, artificial flavourings/colourings and chemical preservatives by eating organic is a positive thing. A study in 2014 said that organic food is more nutritious.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/11/organic-food-more-antioxidants-study

I don't go ultra low with low carbing, I'm not obsessively counting carbs but it has made a big difference in my life. I think organic food ought to contribute to a less inflammatory diet.

Snap.. My troubles with pain and inflammation were anything with artificial sweeteners (and I can also say preservatives)... Due to slow colonic transit cannot eat bread, pasta, rice etc.

My whole diet now is purely natural products-Some organic, a lot homegrown. I had never ate a lot of processed or ready made foods anyway but going totally home baked and knowing everything is untainted has totally given me my life back.

It hasn't only stopped pain (diagnosed as anything from palindromic rheumatism to fibromyalgia) but also I no longer have nightmares or sleep talk.

 

[Brunneria]

To me, the first step, is not to reach for a nutritional supplement, but to overhaul the diet.

It seems pointless to me, to be forking out fortunes for nutritional supplements and alternative therapies, if you haven't done it. To me, that's like trying to build a house without foundations.

Regardless of whether you go low GI, LCHF, Paleo, Primal or whatever else works for you, the quality of the food matters.

I don't eat processed carbs at all. The only added sugars I consume are those in organic mayonnaise (too lazy to make my own) and Lindt Excellence 90% cocoa chocolate. I eat a lot of organic vegetables and herbs (some home-grown), a little organic fruit as a treat, and the rest of my diet is split between organic fats/oils and organic/wild protein eg organic lamb and chicken, wild salmon.

I've lost three stones, my leptin is working and so are my tastebuds. I can taste the natural sugars in tinned tomatoes, milk and butter, all of which taste sweet to me.

I firmly believe that reducing my exposure to carbohydrates, added sugar, pesticides, artificial flavourings/colourings and chemical preservatives by eating organic is a positive thing. A study in 2014 said that organic food is more nutritious.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/11/organic-food-more-antioxidants-study

I don't go ultra low with low carbing, I'm not obsessively counting carbs but it has made a big difference in my life. I think organic food ought to contribute to a less inflammatory diet.

Whoa.

That's a heck of a lot of implied criticism there.
What about those not in the lucky position that you seem to be in?

Many people are not able to pay the higher cost of organic food.
They may not have gardens where they can grow veg.
They may not be able to source the foods you suggest.
And they may not have the time, the postage price or the transport needed to get hold of them, if they do find a source.

I agree that introducing a wide range of dietary supplements is not ideal. It would be lovely to rely entirely on a varied diet of nutritious and wholesome foods. But, as already mentioned, not everyone's body can absorb enough of some nutrients from food. In which case, good quality supplements are the sensible answer - even though not everyone can afford those, either.

 

[zand]

I agree that a healthy diet is important but sometimes we need extra help. Supplements have to be better than drugs surely?

 

[AndBreathe]

I'll just chuck in my 2p worth here.

I don't have any challenge to the belief that a quality, varied diet is the very best way to go. Undoubtedly it is. I'm fortunate to be able to allocate an adequate budget to my food and I enjoy it, but irrespective of that, if I ever reached a point where I believed a supplement would be in my best interest, I'd get on and take one, provided there was no danger of me reaching or breeching any toxicity thresholds.

Sometimes the mental impact of "taking something" can be pretty marked. The mental life from the belief we are taking action and making a difference is important. We should never ignore even the placebo effect in any of this.

How many folks do we see in here mentioning they have missed, or been late with a single dose of Metformin and attaching an impact to that, when realistically any impact would be absolutely minimal, if not nil?

Provided individuals act, based on knowledge and research, I can see nothing fundamentally wrong with taking supplements. It wouldn't routinely be my choice, but that certainly doesn't make it a bad thing.

 

[poshtotty]

The OP asks whether diet has an effect on inflammation, and whether there is any evidence to back it up.

Here's my evidence: Despite my liver not functioning as it should, which I attribute to the damage done by one particularly nasty drug I was taking for RA, while on meds for rheumatoid arthritis my Disease Activity Score in March 2014 was in excess of 5.1 (described as severe disease activity likely to require a change in therapy)

In June 2015 after converting to LCHF and after a full 12 months without RA meds and continuing to supplement my diet with Vit D, a multi vitamin and Biomega, my disease activity score is less than 2.2 In a letter to my GP, my consultant described my disease as in remission, advising that I have chosen to manage my condition by continuing with my change of lifestyle, without medication.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I also take supplements.. Vit D, and a multivitamin... A multivitamin because our veg n fruit compared to 100 years ago has a lot lower percentage of vitamins and minerals in. I also take magnesium and garlic tablet. On days when I don't have oily fish I also have omega 3, evening primrose, lipo-carn (alpha lipoic acid)- this is meant to help with neuropathy.

I am lucky though to have an income to afford these though. However, as I only eat one meal a day and no snacks though - this means we don't buy cereals. breads etc...

 

[Winnie53]

I'm inspired by the stories shared here. Keeps me trying. Brunneria, thanks for starting this topic.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I agree that a healthy diet is important but sometimes we need extra help. Supplements have to be better than drugs surely?

Why would supplements be better than drugs? Drugs have been extensively tested and there is a lot of information about their positive and negative effects. What evidence do you have to support your statement?

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I'll just chuck in my 2p worth here.

I don't have any challenge to the belief that a quality, varied diet is the very best way to go. Undoubtedly it is. I'm fortunate to be able to allocate an adequate budget to my food and I enjoy it, but irrespective of that, if I ever reached a point where I believed a supplement would be in my best interest, I'd get on and take one, provided there was no danger of me reaching or breeching any toxicity thresholds.

Sometimes the mental impact of "taking something" can be pretty marked. The mental life from the belief we are taking action and making a difference is important. We should never ignore even the placebo effect in any of this.

How many folks do we see in here mentioning they have missed, or been late with a single dose of Metformin and attaching an impact to that, when realistically any impact would be absolutely minimal, if not nil?

Provided individuals act, based on knowledge and research, I can see nothing fundamentally wrong with taking supplements. It wouldn't routinely be my choice, but that certainly doesn't make it a bad thing.

I think the key word here is knowledge. Some knowledge is more accurate than others. A website can recommend a certain supplement for a certain symptom or illness, but what evidence is that recommendation based on? For me that is the key question. I am not claiming all supplements don't work... I think some do, and some don't, and there are many variables involved. But it is hard to get accurate information about supplements.

The placebo effect is real. How much are we prepared to pay for a placebo effect? 10 pounds/dollars a month, 100 pounds/dollars a month? If that money was spent on other things to support our wellbeing, would that be a better use of the money? Just some things to think about.

 

[AndBreathe]

.... The placebo effect is real. How much are we prepared to pay for a placebo effect? 10 pounds/dollars a month, 100 pounds/dollars a month? If that money was spent on other things to support our wellbeing, would that be a better use of the money? Just some things to think about.

I agree with you, but in an imperfect world, it's down to us to do our own research and invest in ourselves. Delegating responsibility for our health isn't a healthy way forward.

Of course, in so many areas, we have to accept the help and support of "experts" in their fields, but that doesn't stop me from researching and reading up on everything they recommend and challenge it, if necessary.

Of course, I think that probably means my GP has nightmares when she sees my name on her list for the day, but she has conceded that I make her think. From my side of the desk, I have her in training with regard to diabetes and lipids, but she's coming along.

If I have an appointment with her to discuss something, I'm not happy unless she writes at least one thing on her pad to look up later. Her knowledge on lipids has come on in leaps and bounds, and most recently, she was rather fascinated by my Libre sensor which she saw when examining me for something completely unrelated to diabetes. Yes, she took notes.

So, as you can gather, I look upon my advisors in a collaborative way. They're not the boss, when it comes to my body. That's not to say I only do what I want to do. Sometimes, I have to reluctantly concede to their advise or treatment plans, but when I do, at least I understand why and what any alternatives might have been.

Supplements can be tricky; particularly in non-regulated areas, so we just have to do our best and keep an open and vigilant mind.

 

[Indy51]

I'm quite happy to keep paying for Co-Q10 supplements as I've proved by a start/stop/start again experiment of n=1 that it controls my blood pressure. Since every BP medication tried gives me either upper GI issues or headaches, I'd rather take that and pay for it myself. I don't really care if it's placebo effect or not - it works.

 

[poshtotty]

I'm quite happy to keep paying for Co-Q10 supplements as I've proved by a start/stop/start again experiment of n=1 that it controls my blood pressure. Since every BP medication tried gives me either upper GI issues or headaches, I'd rather take that and pay for it myself. I don't really care if it's placebo effect or not - it works.

Likewise with mine. In my post I say I began taking supplements on the advice of a qualified nutritionist and after doing my own research, and choosing a reputable brand.

My disease is now medically considered to be in remission. I don't and never have suffered mood swings or crabbiness when hungry and am able to juggle running a full-time business with a challenging domestic life, I have energy, and a good sleep pattern of 8 hours daily. I therefore consider my body to be in balance. This can only be credited to LCHF with a little help from 3 supplements.

 

[zand]

Why would supplements be better than drugs? Drugs have been extensively tested and there is a lot of information about their positive and negative effects. What evidence do you have to support your statement?

This is my personal opinion so the only evidence I have is personal experience of which I have 57 years. I don't intend to quote everything I have experienced in that time to justify what is only my opinion, but here's a couple of reasons I say that.

My mum was offered Thalidomide whilst she was pregnant, the only reason she refused it was that she didn't suffer from sickness at all. If she had been sick I would have preferred her to take natural remedies such as ginger or peppermint. It was said at the time that the drug had been properly tested.

I suffered from atrial fibrillation for 2 periods of around 2 years each. I had 4 short stays in hospital for treatment and was on some very potent drugs. One of these has potential side effects of blindness and death. I agreed to take it because I was so breathless I couldn't bend to put shoes on or walk a very short distance without having to stop for breath. Since than I have discovered that when my heart goes out of rhythm all I need to do is take a dose of a magnesium supplement. This is a supplement of something my body needs and is lacking. If I'm lacking a nutrient then no amount of drugs will give me that so they won't cure me whilst a supplement may.

My supplements were recommended by a qualified naturopath.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I agree with you, but in an imperfect world, it's down to us to do our own research and invest in ourselves. Delegating responsibility for our health isn't a healthy way forward.

Of course, in so many areas, we have to accept the help and support of "experts" in their fields, but that doesn't stop me from researching and reading up on everything they recommend and challenge it, if necessary.

Of course, I think that probably means my GP has nightmares when she sees my name on her list for the day, but she has conceded that I make her think. From my side of the desk, I have her in training with regard to diabetes and lipids, but she's coming along.

If I have an appointment with her to discuss something, I'm not happy unless she writes at least one thing on her pad to look up later. Her knowledge on lipids has come on in leaps and bounds, and most recently, she was rather fascinated by my Libre sensor which she saw when examining me for something completely unrelated to diabetes. Yes, she took notes.

So, as you can gather, I look upon my advisors in a collaborative way. They're not the boss, when it comes to my body. That's not to say I only do what I want to do. Sometimes, I have to reluctantly concede to their advise or treatment plans, but when I do, at least I understand why and what any alternatives might have been.

Supplements can be tricky; particularly in non-regulated areas, so we just have to do our best and keep an open and vigilant mind.

I agree with doing our own reading and investing in ourselves, and not delegating responsibility for our health. I'm not sure why you said that, as I wasn't implying differently.

I was referring to a process of thinking about the knowledge/information we access when we do our reading. What evidence did they base their claim on? Is there just anecdotal evidence? Have they done research? How was it designed? Was it independent? What sort of journal was it published in? How long ago? Has the research been replicated by others? Are there meta-reviews? Often there is no scientific evidence behind a website's recommendation for a supplement. What do we do then?