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Insulin resistance without excess visceral fat

H

hose1975

Well-Known Member
Messages
108
Location
Cambridge
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Is it possible to have insulin resistance without excess visceral fat? My numbers are creeping up again but my waistline is a healthy 27 inches and when I lay down on my back my abdomen caves inwards (which is apparently a rough guide to whether you're carrying too much visceral fat).

My weight is also increasing. I'm only on about 90g of carbohydrates per day and an intake of roughly 1500kcal. And I'm not willing to go any lower. I'm confused

Bah!
 
Hi There

I am no doctor, but I believe there are many different possible causes for insulin resistance, one of which is an inability to properly metabolise vitamin B12 (and / or maybe B1 too)

This can also lead to weight gain, and possible dementia and similar mental problems in the long term and maybe one reason why the media keep pushing the myth that Type 2 is caused by excessive weight - in this case they are linked, but are both due to the same underlying problems.

I am taking Alpha Lipoic Acid, methyl B1 and methyl B12 as supplements, initially to try and address peripheral neuropathy, but I found that my FBG levels were reducing too - to the extent I have now reduced from 4 x 500 Metformin to just 2 per day, and I am debating cutting that to just 1.

Have you had your B12 levels checked?
 
I had them done in summer 2014 and they came back in the 'grey area', i.e. between 200 and 500. I supplement with 1000 mcg sublingual B12 now.

Thanks.
 
I'm in a similar situation but am only just managing to stop going below 70kg by eating a lot of anything low-carb, with a high proportion of fat (and probably too much protein). On holiday I lose about 3kg in 2 weeks.
My lowest BS reading this year has been 5.0, and the highest 11 (elderflower cordial -- oops) with an average of 6.2, whereas a year ago the lowest level was 4.4 and the highest 12 (fish and chips) with an average of 6.0.
So the wave is smoothing out. hopefully as I manage my diet better, but the base level and average are higher. Perhaps it's because I eat so much, particularly protein. But if I don't, I lose weight, and I'm already scrawny. If I include more carbs, my BS will rise.
It's a puzzle. But I'm quite excited by the journey and I feel in good company.
So all I've said here is hi there, me too, haven't a clue but keep searching
 
Cheers, Deej (may I call you Deej?). Nice to know it's not just me! I'm definitely not a TOFI so I'm just scratching around for possibilities. I really can't go much lower than 90g carbohydrate per day without serious revision to my diet, which has already cut out all starchy carbs, sugar and most fruit

Milk is my gremlin. I've not found a low(er)-carb alternative that gives anything like the same mouthfeel as the real thing in tea. It's all just too ... thin.
 
The other problem is that I can't eat huge amounts of most things without weight gain (**** you, wonky thyroid!) so I really do need to keep to around 1500kcal per day. And it's not easy without either going overboard on protein or fat. I rarely feel full so I can't just chug down a carton of double cream (oh! that I could).
 
hose1975 said:
Milk is my gremlin. I've not found a low(er)-carb alternative that gives anything like the same mouthfeel as the real thing in tea. It's all just too ... thin.
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I simply gave up ordinary tea for fruit tea and became addicted to coffee with double cream. How come I can gorge on fat and you can't? Is it in our ancestral genes? Was I an eskimo? Or simply thyroid?
 
Everyone is different I know but even tho I do the LCHF thing with coffee (loads of lovely cream) I still have milk in my tea, ...

I mean unless you are drinking 20 mugs of tea a day the amount of milk is pretty low................
 
mfactor said:
Everyone is different I know but even tho I do the LCHF thing with coffee (loads of lovely cream) I still have milk in my tea, ...

I mean unless you are drinking 20 mugs of tea a day the amount of milk is pretty low................
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Well... I have at least 50mls of milk in a cup, probably nearer to 75mls. And I have about 4 cups per day. 75mls is not that much when you eyeball it. So bam! there's 20g carbs right there.
 
hose1975 said:
Well... I have at least 50mls of milk in a cup, probably nearer to 75mls. And I have about 4 cups per day. 75mls is not that much when you eyeball it. So bam! there's 20g carbs right there.
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Yep thats , 15/20g (full fat is better) as part of your 90g day limit, ..............

Is it not possible ? I tend to cut elsewhere to enable me to have a treat at another time.............
 
mfactor said:
Yep thats , 15/20g (full fat is better) as part of your 90g day limit, ..............

Is it not possible ? I tend to cut elsewhere to enable me to have a treat at another time.............
Click to expand...
I could cut out my one apple per day. And that really is it. Everything else is pared back as far as I'm willing to go, otherwise I'll be into the realms of unsustainable punishment.
 
hose1975 said:
I could cut out my one apple per day. And that really is it. Everything else is pared back as far as I'm willing to go, otherwise I'll be into the realms of unsustainable punishment.
Click to expand...



Go on do the apple ,
 
Those inches really sound okay, but I cannot put them in context unless I have bmi, bodyweight, height and with bodyfat that would be perfect.

You also say that your weight is increasing, and you do not eat that many carbs.

My guess would be this, when you eat very lowcarb you are actually causing yourself peripheral insulin resistance, and if your weight is okay, I would advise you to eat some carbs. After a day or two with high readings your body wold become used to carbs again, and your sugars would probably be okay.
 

Height 5'1", weight 8st 4lbs, BMI 21.9, bodyfat 26.5%. I'm fairly certain that most around here would not consider 90g carbohydrate / day very low-carb; that falls into the realm of under 50g / day.
 
DeejayR said:
I simply gave up ordinary tea for fruit tea and became addicted to coffee with double cream. How come I can gorge on fat and you can't? Is it in our ancestral genes? Was I an eskimo? Or simply thyroid?
Click to expand...
Fruit tea... ugh. Not great with sweetener, even worse with. I may up my intake of jasmine tea. And I've discovered that I don't need to add as much milk to Tesco's chocolate tea so may sub that for my morning tea at work.

As to why I can't gorge on much of anything. Who knows? It's a right bummer, though. Because I really could drink a whole carton of cream in one sitting. (I know that's repulsive to most people, but they can sod off.)
 
Hi. Some people do have a low metabolism. My wife who is not diabetic probably has less than 50g carbs per day but still struggles with weight gain. She has a much lower metabolism than me. I'm afraid this problem is in the genes and no easy solution.
 
hose1975 said:
Well... I have at least 50mls of milk in a cup, probably nearer to 75mls. And I have about 4 cups per day. 75mls is not that much when you eyeball it. So bam! there's 20g carbs right there.
Click to expand...
75mls is, in my world, 33% of a mug of tea... how many scoops of tea do you use?
 
hankjam said:
75mls is, in my world, 33% of a mug of tea... how many scoops of tea do you use?
Click to expand...
Just the one teabag (Mrs Wembley). And no, it's not 1/3 of a mug. And my household has standard-sized mugs.
 

Hi Tim55 and all

I'm a recently diagnosed type 2 (Jan this year) and stumbled across your mention of Alpha Lipoic Acid and the B12 And B1 supplements and just had to drop in and say hi. Since diagnosis I have tried the Michael Mosley 800 cal per day diet which did help but I'm now about 9st in weight and 5'7" tall and can't lose any more weight. And my blood sugars are going up again so had to go back on metformin (2 X 500mg per day but about to up it tomorrow I think). Since diagnosis I have started noticing numbness in my feet, mainly my big toes, which I never noticed before but now can't stop thinking about!

Really interested what you were saying about the supplements. Wondered if you could tell me more. I will be down Holland and Barrett tomorrow morning anyway though!
 
Sounds like you have some choices to make. Your BG is telling you that your body can't tolerate 90 carbs a day - an you're telling it "Tough noogies." I know which one is going to win that particular battle of wills, and it isn't the 90 carbs.

Since you're not wiling to cut out more, the next best thing is to spread the carbs out. Test your BG at your first bit (or sip), an hour later, 2 hours later, and (if hour 2 is higher than hour 1) three hours later. Find out how many carbs you can tolerate in what time frame. Spread them out. Separate your milk from other carb-containing food. Drink more, smaller, glasses of milk spread throughout the day. Split your apple in half.

If your goal is to lower your BG by diet, you don't have much choice beyond letting your meter guide what, when, and how much you eat. The other alternative is likely progression to diabetes - or more meds to do damage control.
 
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