Insulogenic Foods - Strange Question

[Lesleywo]

This might sound like a daft question but here goes:

I am not diabetic but am genetically pre-disposed to Types 1 (I am Gad positive with other autoimmune conditions) and Type 2. I am a little insulin resistant. So given my genes it is in my best interests to try to preserve my beta cells (given the possibility they are being attacked) by following a reduced carb diet.

My question is this: (remembering I am NOT diabetic at this point and my blood sugars are relatively good)

If we eat carbs (fruit, bread etc.) and we eat protein with them, the rise in blood sugars is less than if we ate carbs on their own. But, given many protein foods are insulogenic (i.e. they cause the body to release insulin), would it not be better to eat the carbs on their own so the body wouldn't have to produce as much insulin?

 

[Indy51]

Personal choice I guess but since protein is a necessary component for life, I'd be prioritising protein over carbohydrates which are not. Once I achieved the protein allowance, then I'd think about adding discretionary carbs, preferable non-starchy ones. Fat is also necessary for health - that's why I think LCHF is ideal for BG control. Only excessive protein will normally impact insulin, especially if you're not diabetic.

 

[Indy51]

You might find this blogpost by Dr Jason Fung on excessive protein useful in calculating how much protein you need:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/

 

[Lesleywo]

Thanks Indy ... but to answer my question ... apple and cheese or apple on its own? (Please dont say cheese on its own!!)

 

[Brunneria]

It has to be your call, because I don't think it is a question any of us can answer.

My view is that however insulogenic protein may be, I would rather get slow release blood glucose from protein than quick release from fruit. And then, of course, there is the fructose, which I try to avoid.

 

[azure]

Thanks Indy ... but to answer my question ... apple and cheese or apple on its own? (Please dont say cheese on its own!!)

No one can advise you as we're all different, so we can only give our own experience. I'm Type 1. I'd probably go with apple and cheese.

You say you're GAD positive and have other auto-immune conditions. Have you been given any diet suggestions?

 

[Lamont D]

As another non diabetic, I would go for little pieces of each.
There's that old adage of a balance between all the different foods.
But being in ketosis, I would opt for no carbs, as they are not necessary and balance the rest depending obviously on what your food choices are and necessary vitamins from fruit and vegetables.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks Indy ... but to answer my question ... apple and cheese or apple on its own? (Please dont say cheese on its own!!)

Why not cheese on its own? Certainly what I would have to preserve my lower blood sugars.. Am I missing something?

 

[Kristin251]

Of course carbs raise bs the fastest and highest over protein and fat so you will need even more insulin to control bs with a higher spike from carbs.
Again, this is why lchf is the better option when trying to control bs and insulin. If you keep bs lower and slower you will in turn keep insulin lower and slower.
I didched the apple years ago for the above reason. I ditched it as well as most carbs way before I was a diabetic. I do believe it prolonged the inevitable for years. But as others have said, your choice

 

[Robbity]

As a type two, by necessity I'd go for protein and fats before carbs - even those in a "healthy" sugary apple. It's the carbs ( in both starchy and sugary foods), that will raise my glucose levels. And we definitely don't need carbs as such, but we may need some of the vitamins and minerals in fruit and vegetables so we need to consume these with caution. So I'd eat my piece of cheese for my main nourishment from fats and protein, but possibly with a small slice of apple as a treat, and so avoid raising my glucose levels by very much, or at all.

But my priorities will differ from yours in that I need to control my diet by replacing carbs with extra fat and oils to keep my glucose levels down where I need them to be.

Robbity

 

[Lesleywo]

Some interesting opinions. I follow a reduced carb diet, not too many grains but I do eat a lot of vegetables and 2-3 serves of fruit per day, as well as some legumes. My belief is that we need these foods as they provide us with fibre (to help prevent bowel cancer) and vitamins, minerals, anti oxidants and phytonutrients which are essential for good health. To me, it's not all about diabetes, it's about eating for health in general.

 

[Lesleywo]

Of course carbs raise bs the fastest and highest over protein and fat so you will need even more insulin to control bs with a higher spike from carbs.
Again, this is why lchf is the better option when trying to control bs and insulin. If you keep bs lower and slower you will in turn keep insulin lower and slower.
I didched the apple years ago for the above reason. I ditched it as well as most carbs way before I was a diabetic. I do believe it prolonged the inevitable for years. But as others have said, your choice

Actually Kristin you would probably be the best qualified person to answer this question, being a type 1 diabetic. So, if you ate an apple with a piece of cheese, would you have to bolus more than you would for an apple on its own?

 

[azure]

No, the cheese might slow down the absorption of the carbs from the apple, but it wouldn't need more insulin usually. I'm Type 1 and I sometimes eat cheese as a 'free' snack.

If you're looking to reduce your risk of Type 1, then there are a number of approaches but no definite trigger known yet, so you can only try to do what you can to minimise possible triggers.

 

[Lamont D]

Some interesting opinions. I follow a reduced carb diet, not too many grains but I do eat a lot of vegetables and 2-3 serves of fruit per day, as well as some legumes. My belief is that we need these foods as they provide us with fibre (to help prevent bowel cancer) and vitamins, minerals, anti oxidants and phytonutrients which are essential for good health. To me, it's not all about diabetes, it's about eating for health in general.

Having been really ill through my food, I think that you are quite right in saying that we need a balance of different types of foods. But it has to be right for you, not necessarily the foods you prefer, but the right foods.
I've found mine through testing an f found that my tastes are not really healthy.
My alternatives have made me fit and healthy.
The one really important thing I found out was that for me, individually, carbs are carbs, and that regardless of the 'supposed' healthy complex carbs or whole grains or healthy options are poisonous to me.
I am weird in that respect but aren't we all weird in our own individual way?
We all have different needs and we all react differently to food. For example, another type two will spike at a different time than you.
I have just noticed that you have GAD. I had anxiety as a symptom.
It is a horrible condition, you are always questioning yourself.
Don't over think things, be brave and have a look at the success stories forum.
Keep asking, the only stupid question is one not asked!
Best wishes.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I would have the cheese in fact I just did I have not eaten an apple since diagnosed as type 2.

 

[Kristin251]

Actually Kristin you would probably be the best qualified person to answer this question, being a type 1 diabetic. So, if you ate an apple with a piece of cheese, would you have to bolus more than you would for an apple on its own?

I would bolus a lot more for an apple than cheese. Even combined. Fat and protein slow and lower onLy to a certain degree in my experience.

It is MY goal to keep insulin levels low. Not everyone's. I don't eat carb because they require more insulin. Loads of people eat their carbs and take loads of insulin. Not my choice. Low carb suits m better for many reasons but you need to decide your own diet. Carbs require insulin be it your own or injected. Protein requires insulin but a lot less thqn carbs

 

[Moosepig]

do you have any means of testing your blood glucose cos if so I would say try it first together, then test 2 hours later and then try on their own and again test - it's the way a lot of us learn our tolerances to different foods.

 

[Lesleywo]

do you have any means of testing your blood glucose cos if so I would say try it first together, then test 2 hours later and then try on their own and again test - it's the way a lot of us learn our tolerances to different foods.

Yes Mandy I do but testing my bs levels doesn't tell me what my insulin levels are doing. My bs levels are ok and my fasting is good but my fasting insulin is elevated. Given protein foods make your body produce insulin without having much impact on your bs (i.e. are insulinogenic), my thinking was that if an apple makes you produce insulin and so does cheese then wouldn't the apple on its own make you use up less of your beta cells, as you would think less insulin is required for the apple than the apple and cheese combined? It is a complex subject and is relatively new. To clear up any confusion to my question, here's a link:

https://optimisingnutrition.com/tag/insulinogenic-foods/

So on this list it says that fish and lentils have the same insulinogenic response (but obviously different effect on bs levels). Hope that explains my drivel.

 

[Lesleywo]

Having been really ill through my food, I think that you are quite right in saying that we need a balance of different types of foods. But it has to be right for you, not necessarily the foods you prefer, but the right foods.
I've found mine through testing an f found that my tastes are not really healthy.
My alternatives have made me fit and healthy.
The one really important thing I found out was that for me, individually, carbs are carbs, and that regardless of the 'supposed' healthy complex carbs or whole grains or healthy options are poisonous to me.
I am weird in that respect but aren't we all weird in our own individual way?
We all have different needs and we all react differently to food. For example, another type two will spike at a different time than you.
I have just noticed that you have GAD. I had anxiety as a symptom.
It is a horrible condition, you are always questioning yourself.
Don't over think things, be brave and have a look at the success stories forum.
Keep asking, the only stupid question is one not asked!
Best wishes.

Just want to clarify ... GAD in this instance is not general anxiety disorder, it's an antibody that is found in most Type 1/LADA diabetics. People aren't usually tested for it until they are diagnosed as diabetic; I was tested because I have other related autoimmune disorders. At this point I don't know if my beta cells are under attack; my bs levels are ok and my c-peptide, whilst not high, is still good. My mum was Type 2 so I am at risk of both types of diabetes, hence my interest.

 

[Paula62]

I have never agreed with "diets" - I try eat a balanced diet which most of time I do, there are times I am not so good but pull myself back. There are a lot of foods out there that I can't eat not because I don't like them but I have a very sensitive tummy and will not tolerate what It doesn't want. Listen to your body, truly listen, it will always tell you what you need when you need it.