Intermittent fasting: 14/10-16/8, 5:2, 24-hr fast, 20-hr fast

Today is my second 5:2 day in the last 7 days. Since beginning various IF regimes (15/9, 6:1, and now 5:2 to try and find the right one, if any, for me), from mid June I think it is - I have lost 2kg. This is a gentle rate of 1kg a month, which is fine for me.

Today my Low Calorie day seems to be going much easier.

I am wondering if this is so because in the last week, on reading more about LCHF, Atkins, and real low-carbing, I have been upping my fat intake by quite a lot, and much more aware of the carb content of foods, so have lowered my carbs too. When I did the Low Cal Diet/Deviated Newcastle Diet, I was blithely unaware of fat content and even the carb content of the food I was eating, but was focussing on its being clean food, and paleo food (just tiny portions of what I normally eat). And counting the blasted calories, as I had to calorie count, of course, to insure I was in a 800-1000 cal window. But now I am looking up the carb gram-age of the food as well as the calories during these :2 days. (Where have I been in this past year? How could I not have started doing this earlier??!!)

I have been testing with ketostix too, and am apparently in a low state of ketosis, which was not the case 6 or 7 days ago. And I do feel pretty good. (I was a moderate to low carber anyway, as a paleo-betic.)

Best of all, in the past 7 days my FBGs have improved a lot. Four days out of 7 - low to mid 5s. Big relief to see those more regularly again. (Two upper 6s, and one on 6.0. ) But no 7s or 8s in the past week. Whew. This is what it has all been about - seeing those FBGs and (therefore the whole day's) BGs come down.

Today, after a relatively high-fat low-carb breakfast and lunch, and chomping on cabbage leaves (I had a mad desire for cabbage), and delightfully upping my carbonated water with lime juice intake - it feels like it has been much easier, in the sense I am not so plagued by strong feelings of hunger. Just a teeny weeny bit. (I saw some nuts in the cupboard when I opened it for a teabag.)

Hmmm. Could it be the diet doctor and the LCHF folk really are on to something? (Yeah, that's me in the pic reading the diet doctor's book.) (He's very witty in Swedish and plays good word games, as well as being cute and earnest and deeply intelligent which he is in English too of course.)

And, could it be that the sun has come out? And I don't have such a big appetite in warm weather. (Up until mid July I was in winter, and for a month the Swedish summer has been..... disappointing. But now it is proper summer weather.) I can be kept happy with some frozen grapes, for instance - which is not so in the cold. (A fancy way of saying today I kept away from the homemade paleo orange and brandy cocoa balls!)

Whatever it is, I am grateful for this mercy. (And today - cabbage leaves!)

I have lost a centimetre each off of my hips and my waist. This is good.

Hi summer dreamer,

Ah yes! I recognise your feelings about BGs and weight. Much sympathy indeed.

You are lucky the IF is easy to stick to! This is a good sign. (I have been thinking a lot about my own journey with IF in the past week - I'll come back soon and write about it.)

A kilo in a month is not to scoff at. Especially with the second kilo, yo-yoing or nae.

Hope the HBAIc results were OK for you? Big cheers. (What a lovely profile name by the way!)

summer dreamer said:

I'm sticking with the 5:2 and the weight is finally starting to come off, 3 kilos down now. I feel like it's a sustainable journey for me as I don't have to worry too much about calories on the non fast days, though I've also found I'm naturally making healthier choices. I didn't eat badly before but would have a bag of crisps now and again or a couple of biscuits, I'm finding now I have absolutely no desire for either!

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Wonderful about the weight loss! And if the personal fat threshold is true, and there is fat on your liver and pancreas, then your HBA1c should be coming down with time as well. Yes - sustainable is good! (I like the word 'journey' very much .)

I have heard about people IFing having lowered food cravings, and developing a better relationship with healthy food - it's all good indeed!

I have pretty well decided to stop IFing. I did this after I woke up one morning, a month or so ago, thinking “Oh no! Today is a fast day!”, followed by, “I'm so miserable I don't want to be alive.”

As the whole point of IFing is to improve my life as a diabetic by improving my blood glucose control, (and I thought to do that I had to lose more weight), wanting to no longer be alive experiencing regular intermittent hunger has not been a successful experiment for me. (I just thought I would make that very clear - lol.) Especially as I wasn't seeing the kind of results I wanted. Or at least – not nearly as dramatic or as quickly enough, for me, at least.

A very worrying aspect of doing IF for me is it re-started sugar cravings to levels I had not experienced since first adjusting my diet and activity, the first couple of months after diagnosis.

And something that has always made IFing hard for me is that when I significantly lower my calorie intake to IF levels I have a lot of problem with keeping up my moderate-active walking and more-active strength and muscle exercise levels. I just don't have the energy. This is added to the sugar cravings, and the feeling miserable.

I probably can't go low-cal enough on the IF days to make a big difference to my insulin sensitivity, blood glucose and or my weight. Hence the lack of results – for me.

After a sleepless night, I went online and found many others who have the same experience as I do on a low-cal diet.

I don't know if I have bung leptin and hunger hormone levels due to insulin resistance/T2D (probably!), or if I was born this way (probably!) – but I have always had a hearty appetite, and come from a family of strong bodies with hearty appetites. In any case - regular IFing does not seem to suit me.

At the same time I was rethinking my stance on calorie restriction, I began researching and reading about real low carb diets, and the LCHF diet, (after following a thread on fat fasting), so I tried lowering my carb intake more, and increasing my fat content. I had to go off my paleo breakfasts to do this, as to have that high level of fat I need to eat dairy products (I mean – exactly how much avocado and olives and olive oil can a person eat?), and ate a lot of dairy in the morning – when I like to eat half my daily calorie load. I couldn't believe it – I instantly had FBGs in the 5% range. To the extent I had FBGs in the 5s 10 days in a row. (I was a low to moderate carber before anyway – but one who had never counted a carb in my life.) (I hate counting!). My FBGs have gone back to my post D-ND levels since. (In the 5s to mid 6s.) (Not another 7-8 FBG in sight!)

I listened to Dr Jay Wortman's experience, and studied the Atkins induction diet, and the LCHF website, and started reading the carb count on food labels (something I had never done – yes to the amount of sugar, but not actual carbs), and adjusting my diet accordingly, I am getting the good FBGs. For me it seems I really can talk about my T2D as a form of carbohydrate intolerance. Lower my carbs, and lower my blood glucose levels, (and therefore lower my risk of complications for the duration would be the plan). I join the throng of diabetics getting better on low carbing. (I try not to exceed 50gs, but do really well BG-wise on 20g and less.)

All without having to get lean! I am at the upper end of normal weight, but it is a comfortable place for me, and one my body does not seem to want to shift from that readily, without a lot of pain and anguish and hunger on my part. I would rather stay this weight and not carry around a cushion in my backpack due in order to sit on wooden chairs! (Something I have to do when at the lower end of normal weight, ie, when lean.)

I would rather can a lot of carbs, eat my very small portions of the tropical fruit I love in dairy, and can the periodic hunger pains. Not to mention to can the lowered ability to move easily.

What I have found is, since stopping the regular IFing, I have skipped a meal, due to satiety (having eaten well in a meal, or had carbs in the evening the night before), or gone 15 hours during the night before and in the morning, a couple of times. Spontaneous IFing! That I can do effortlessly, with no hunger. And this is probably due to having IF as part of my routine for a couple of months. And possibly the increased fat consumption.

This is the kind of IFing I will do in the future I think – spontaneous sessions! When I am full. And not hungry. Just a natural part of my eating repertoire – to not eat sometimes.

We shall see!

Me on a fasting day

Brunneria said:

Your experience is very similar to mine @AloeSvea

I just don't do low cal, or nil by mouth fasting. They send me into a weird alternate universe of headgames, cravings and obsessive food thoughts.

Yet here I am, about 6? 8? weeks into my daily Intermittent Fat Fasts, and am finding it totally comfortable and effortless. I just eat normal lchf lunch and evening meal, and in between fast except for fat - that is coffee with cream for breakfast (or bulletproof), and maybe a broth with a dash of cream at other times. Home made coconut yog is also an option. So would fat bombs.

It still astonishes me that I am finding it so effortless and hassle free.

Weight loss was half a stone the first month, and then nothing, but I have started having the Lidl protein rolls quite often for lunch, and I suspect that water retention has crept back on. yet my weight has not increased, so who knows what the weight loss is, under the water...? Shrug. Will wait and see. I certainly feel good on this.

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Yes - I've thought about your experiences more than once - and think too that how you, these days, and Photognut's experience fasting, and fat fasting as being effortless is how it OUGHT to be! For sure. And if it is a struggle - then perhaps there is something not right for oneself in it, at least, for me, at this stage of my diabetic journey.

I'm finding my way in dairy fat, and love the idea of making my own coconut yoghurt one day - so very good to read about yours!

I had a look at the wonderful Michael Mosley on the Horizon docos sharing his all with intermittent fasting, and did indeed have a sigh - it is clearly not too big a hassle for him either - so effortless he has gone on to write a 5:2 book I see? Ah yes.

That's how it ought to be for sure!

tuatara said:

And I never go to bed hungry.

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Kia ora Tuatara! Great to see the IF working well, and the way of eating, with great weight loss.

I started explaining my post-diagnosis way of eating (after a few months modified paleo, lately lchf) recently, and even my diabetes, as having wheat and carb intolerance at the base of it, and it's helped my friends and extended family understand it all a bit more. (Especially my not eating bread thing. ) Which all helps.

With the VLCD and fasting regimens I have tried - that was tougher to explain! I even ended up with a couple of folk reassuring them I was not, and had never been, eating disordered (in the anorexic sense). When doing the Deviated Newcastle low-calorie regimen I even showed someone a flow chart with livers and pancreases and so on, and the low-calorie effect on the whole caboodle. (Disappointingly, he was not impressed! I loved that flow chart!) And I am pretty sure my favourite aunt thinks I have become obsessive.

Any ways of explaining various fasting and IF regimes to the ordinary non-diabetic folk in our lives out there you might want to share?

AndBreathe said:

Aloe - Could you please share the flow chart? I'd be curious to see it as I'm always looking at ways to get messages across.

Many thanks.

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Good point! Have the chart nice and handy but just chasing it in my docs, so I can reference it...

Sorry about the delay - I gave Herr Svea a big speech about contributing to the body of knowledge for we diabetics by stacking the dishwasher for me while I trawled the net for the ref of the flow chart... but he just didn't buy it. Here tis.