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Is this safe?

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by bookcook, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. bookcook

    bookcook Prediabetes · Member

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    Hi guys. I plan to eat once every 24h for 5-6 days per week. I cannot eat too much at that one meal, maybe 1000kcal? Is this safe? I want to lose 40kg tbh.
    Also, if I eat carbs at that 1-2 days per week, like bread and chips, will I ruin my ability to control my appetite? Because while on low carb, I don't have any cravings or extreme hunger.
    Thanks!
     
  2. PurpleArmadillo

    PurpleArmadillo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Are you type 2 @bookcook ?

    No science behind this, just my personal opinion, but I find spreading out carbs in multiple meals a day to work better for me in terms of keeping my readings stable.

    But having said that, in four months of testing, the lowest ever readings have been when I've been so busy and active at work that I've missed meals.

    So I guess in the long term, if the fasting decreases your weight as hoped then that will compensate for the fluctuations from the occasional higher carbs.

    I have found that the more I allow myself the odd carby treat, the more I crave them though. It has really opened my eyes to how addictive carbs are. Hopefully you have better willpower than me!
     
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  3. MartyB

    MartyB Type 2 · Member

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    Hi
    Pretty new to all this stuff myself but I do know that any change in eating habits must be sustainable. If you need to lose 40kg you should aim for around a kilo a week maximum. The golden rule that I've found is "fast off fast on"... and it often brings extra weight with it. Having said that, we are all different so it may work well for you but keep in mind that if you are not eating enough your body will go into "famine" mode.. i.e after an initial weight loss it will slow right down to next to nothing and anything you do eat will be stored by the body and not processed through. Many people go on severe diets and don't lose an ounce. This is often followed by "it must be my condition that's causing it" then more often than not this is followed by depression and then the eating changes and it all goes round and round in a vicious circle.

    There will be more knowledgeable people to guide you but the above is from personal experience.
     
  4. cusally

    cusally Type 2 · Active Member

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    it doesn't sound safe bookcook, but it's your body !
    in the last few weeks of eating low carbs i am noticing my appetite has been diminishing, your proposal would not help that process happen, also I would suspect side effects like constipation would be an issue.
    Extra exercise of any kind is a must and i wouldnt be able to do any if i was only eating once per day.
    Remember poor circulation is a risk for all us diabetics, and foot health could be impacted if you don't move about because you are too tired from lack of eating.
    I'm eating 4 times per day and getting 800 calories, not feeling at all hungry as i have realised a lot of eating is habit
    Good luck with whatever you choose
     
  5. chalup

    chalup Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Eating carbs causes hunger, as to safety I have no idea but there are a fair number of members who practice fasting who should know.
     
  6. MagicFirefly

    MagicFirefly Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt think it was safe.
    You can have a low carb diet and still have 3 meals a day and keep the calorie count down. Emphasise on fibre and protein. Especially fibre.

    Constipation is a serious problem. It can lead to faecal impactation and at worst can cause bowl perferation which can lead to sepsis and will require surgery and query a stoma.

    Speak to your dietician before making any major dietary changes.
     
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi
    I would first try and cut down dramatically on carb consumption. Once you get adapted to running on fat you will find fasting much easier to stick to and you shouldn't get strong hunger pangs. When diagnosed I immediately gave up breakfast so was naturally fasting for 16-7 hours per day.. just had a couple of large mugs of tea (bit of milk) to start the day. I found that was easy. So then started to extend the fasting period by not eating lunch and effectively did what you are wanting to do just eating dinner or lunch whichever meal suits you.
    I would say that if you eat carbs the dreaded carb craving will make it much more difficult to resist eating. It may be doable if you are incredibly strong willed but it will make the whole experience less enjoyable which kind of defeats the object. By doing this I am down about 35 kg over the last 10 months. Definitely try to cut out all the carby stuff from your diet first.
    You could do a lot worse than take a look at the 2ketodudes podcast and facebook page as there are lots of people there who intermittent fast and are getting the results you are after.
    Hope that's helpful
    Regards
    Mark
     
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi Marty
    I think what you are talking about are various low calorie diets which may cause the metabolism to slow down to match the food you are taking in. The theory behind fasting is that you are not triggering insulin production when you do not eat so your system gets a complete break. Dr Jason Fung is great for explaining this (much better than me!) and why reduced calorie diets usually fail over time.
     
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  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I am assuming you are Type 2 and not on any meds.. if this is not the case then I wouldn't want to advise.
    I wouldn't worry about counting calories either just eat (Low Carb) until you are full then stop.
     
  10. walnut_face

    walnut_face Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @bookcook welcome to the forum, you have found what is probably the most supportive corner of the internet!
    There are all sorts of theories about Intermittent Fasting (IF) which is, in effect, what you are planning and also Very Low Cal diets, like the Newcastle Diet, and the spin-off Dr Moseley's 8 week blood sugar diet. I have fasted for 23 hours from time to time as a means of trying to increase insulin sensitivity
    I am tagging @KevinPotts who recently concluded a 7 day fast and @Brunneria who is a real time typing encyclopedia on IF
     
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  11. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    you've been given some great advice above.

    I think the best thing with fasting and IF is just to make it work for you, in your life.
    For instance, I don't ever fast on weekends (I go out for a meal with my partner at least once during the w/e, and I go out for Sunday breakfast with a friend. No way will I place Fasting over those little joys. :) )
    So I fast in different patterns to suit my mood during the week. It works out well.

    Also, for me and my body (I am not speaking for anyone else) avoiding carbs is a far greater priority than avoiding calories. I only get carb cravings, gnawing hunger and wobbliness if my carbs have been above my personal tolerance for them. If I stay below that magic number, then I can fast indefinitely and deal with any hunger by ignoring it, or having a drink with a splash of cream in it. Of a fat bomb. Calories really aren't my thing, and I certainly don't count them.

    My primary reason for fasting is to reduce insulin resistance. If weight loss happens as a side effect, then whoopie! But I would rather be fat with low insulin resistance, than slimmer with higher insulin resistance, because I think the long term health implications of insulin resistance (Alzheimers, heart disease, fatty liver, inflammation, etc. etc.) far outweigh the health implications of being fit and fat with low insulin and good blood glucose control.
     
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  12. bookcook

    bookcook Prediabetes · Member

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    So the last two days I ate only once per day, so I fasted 24h twice.

    Today I ate a breaded chicken breast (I think the breading is not too many carbs) and a chicken kiev with garlic butter (breaded again but small like a medallion). I counted the calories to be maximum 700-800. I don't feed hungry but a bit strange, maybe a feeling of less energy? I am not sure.

    My plan is to fast forever from 24-72h (so that the body won't adapt) during the weekdays and feast on weekends. Would it be a mistake to include carbs in the weekend? I tend to think yes.
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    The current thinking on the state of ketosis (which is kind of what you are trying to achieve and will assist most with your weight loss) is that it takes from 1-8 weeks to get the full benefits. Once you are in ketosis and push yourself out by eating carbs it can take a number of days to get back in again. So, if you are in a state of ketosis for a week then eat a bunch of carbs it may take up to a week to get back into ketosis again if you then have another bunch of carbs the process will start again and you'll never get there. You will be kind of hobbling yourself by eating the carbs. Do a month of very low carb and then try the fasting and you'll probably get better results and will hopefully loose the craving for the carbs. That's the theory as I currently understand it.
     
  14. bookcook

    bookcook Prediabetes · Member

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    your theory contradicts with the cyclic ketogenic diet
    I am not sure what are the results for the CKD and if it achieves the maximum weight loss though
     
  15. sewist

    sewist Prediabetes · Member

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    I'm pretty new to all this but doing well.
    I started by reducing carbs, eliminating grains and my favourite addiction, JAM! Then I stopped breakfast, then lunch, now I have an eating window of 4hrs, time for 2 large but sensible meals , then back to the 20hrs fast. This took about 2 months of gradual change and reading all the info I could find.
    I feel great. Weight is beginning to drop, my purpose for change, I was diagnosed pre-diabetic. I feel supremely confident for the first time in my 60+yrs that this will be my answer.
    My advice to you, take your time. Be gentle to yourself. And cut out the chips!
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    If you want to maximise weight loss as well as lowering your blood sugars then cutting carbs completely should be much better. That's what I have found. Fasting and low carb is not only easier but also more effective. Just my experience.
     
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  17. lovinglife

    lovinglife Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have no experience of fasting so can't comment on that but you have had some excellent advice from some very experienced fasters but - what I am going to say now comes from a good place so please don't be offended

    Your choice of food when you do eat doesn't seem to be the healthiest choice - why the carbs in the breadcrumbs? No above ground veggies or salad stuff - I get the feeling from what you are saying you have eaten and the plans to eat chips and carbs on non fast days is more about being able to indulge in bad carbs rather than getting into fasting ketosis- I may be totally of the mark and if I am I apologise but you could have far healthier more filling food for your one meal a day if you ditched the carby bits of your meal

    Once again not meaning to offend just wondering :)
     
  18. julieemma

    julieemma Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Lost my appetite blood sugars dropped between 4 and 5 stopped meds and still no change any advice plz
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Not sure what you are really asking? Sounds like you have normalised your blood sugars..Was that your aim?
     
  20. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It depends on your goal...will it totally mess up your HbA1c? Probably not. Because the A1c is a 60-90 day average, there about.

    Will your glucose level spike and you re-introduce the ravenous hunger that is commonly experience after a high carb meal. Very likely. And each glycemic excursion does some damage...we just don't know how much. A bit like how much radiation exposure before we get cancer... :D
     
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