SargeMaximus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 61
- Type of diabetes
- Prediabetes
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Are you vegetarian? Which is perfectly fine but worth mentioning in light of what tips you'll get.and eat a steady diet of oatmeal, beans, sweet potatoes with lots of coconut, olive oils and butter.
No worries, I appreciate the questions.Are you vegetarian? Which is perfectly fine but worth mentioning in light of what tips you'll get.
You say you wanted to avoid prediabetes, what made you think you were at risk of it being thin and working a physical job?
Do you know what your hba1c was?
Sorry for all the questions!
Well - if you stop eating high carb foods you'll have a good chance of going back to normal numbers, but you might need to start eating steak and other meat, fish and some eggs and cheese as those are the foods which an ordinary type two can cope with.Hey guys, bit of context:
I'm 6 foot tall, 150lb (skinny) male. I work in constriction (8 hours cardio for 5 days a week) and eat a steady diet of oatmeal, beans, sweet potatoes with lots of coconut, olive oils and butter. My diet choices came from Gluten intolerance and wanting to avoid prediabetes (You get what you try to avoid am I right?)
So you can imagine my shock when recent blood tests (taken to determine what discomfort and pain in my legs when sitting, were cause by) apparently showed I have prediabetes.
I'm stunned and confused. Hopefully ya'll can help me manage this and if possible reverse it. Thanks
Ok but my construction job is very physically demanding, what can I eat to match the calorie requirements? Also I use an instant pot to cook pork tenderloin mostly for meat, is that like steak?Well - if you stop eating high carb foods you'll have a good chance of going back to normal numbers, but you might need to start eating steak and other meat, fish and some eggs and cheese as those are the foods which an ordinary type two can cope with.
I don't quite get why you think that low carb is low calorie - it is, if necessary quite a high calorie diet.Ok but my construction job is very physically demanding, what can I eat to match the calorie requirements? Also I use an instant pot to cook pork tenderloin mostly for meat, is that like steak?
I always thought fat calories didn't help the same way carbs do. Since I been trying to put on weight forever, the standard advice is to always "load up on carbs".I don't quite get why you think that low carb is low calorie - it is, if necessary quite a high calorie diet.
Any cut of meat, as long as it is not very lean is a good choice.
Yes, please ask what number gave you your diagnosis.I don’t know what that was. I see my doctor Thursday, can I ask him for it? Thanks
What about a hearty breakfast of bacon, eggs, sausages, onion, cheese and tomatoes? That should keep you going for a bit!Ok but my construction job is very physically demanding, what can I eat to match the calorie requirements? Also I use an instant pot to cook pork tenderloin mostly for meat, is that like steak?
I don’t have a stove. I use an instant pot. I could make a ton of meat with it but not the eggs. Also I’m allergic to tomatoes.Yes, please ask what number gave you your diagnosis.
What about a hearty breakfast of bacon, eggs, sausages, onion, cheese and tomatoes? That should keep you going for a bit!
Pork tenderloin sounds great too.
Hi, Sarge!I don’t have a stove. I use an instant pot. I could make a ton of meat with it but not the eggs. Also I’m allergic to tomatoes.
Oh and also all that meat worries me. I’ve heard carnivores get iron toxicity
But surely you want to have muscle and not fat deposits - especially around the waist which is where type twos tend to develop a 'bay window' effect.I always thought fat calories didn't help the same way carbs do. Since I been trying to put on weight forever, the standard advice is to always "load up on carbs".
I don't have fat deposits. My belly is lean. Not sure what you are getting at? Did I mention I'm skinny?But surely you want to have muscle and not fat deposits - especially around the waist which is where type twos tend to develop a 'bay window' effect.
Fats are not simply stored, they are the basis for a lot of substances within the nervous system and also for hormones - so you don't want to be running low on them.
Hey Grandma, thanks for stopping by. I have a few reservations with your suggestions.Hi, Sarge!
It may very well be worth getting a hot plate to expand your cooking options. But even without it, you can make boiled eggs in a hotpot.
Eating meat should not give you iron toxicity unless you have the gene for hemochromatosis.
There are other lower carb vegetables, so no worries about not being able to tolerate tomatoes.
Fat calories can be perfect for sustained exertion like you do in your line of work. You have to be able to switch from carb burning to fat burning to use them, but after that, they are much more effective. You might even find that they help you to put on the weight that has eluded you, since fat contains more calories than carb. (Sadly, for me, carb is the ideal recipe for weight gain!But it doesn't work that way for everyone.)
Have you been careful to get uncontaminated oats? If not, that could be a source of gluten that could prevent you from absorbing nutrients in the same as wheat does. But at any rate, oats and beans are not great foods for controlling your blood sugar. You'll want to lean in to the lower carb vegetables, fats, and proteins for that.
Also, get a glucometer as soon as you can because the very best advice is to "eat to your meter". That is, test before you eat and then two hours after you eat. If the meal caused a blood sugar spike, you'll know that that specific meal (particularly, that particular source of carbs) doesn't work well for you. Diabetes is an n=1 disease in that everyone reacts a little differently to foods, and a meter puts *you* in the driver's seat. (Early on, I discovered that any grains or pseudograins at all caused me a serious spike, but for a long time I was able to eat more of vegetable sources of carbs without a spike. I wouldn't have known that without testing, testing, testing.)
Congratulations for being so aware of your health! That will give you the edge in getting your blood sugar under control and keeping it there.
Hey Grandma, thanks for stopping by. I have a few reservations with your suggestions.
I have a hot plate but don't have the time to prepare the kind of food I can tolerate. I work a lot, so making 5 pots of vegetables just isn't feasible on my sunday prep day. Instant pot saves me quite literally.
I've followed a guy who went carnivore and it nearly killed him. I won't be making that same mistake.
As I already mentioned: I been eating beans, oats, and sweet potatoes for carbs. I was under the impression those WERE low glycemic. So I'm confused what other veggies you may be suggesting?
I tried going keto a few years ago and I felt it nearly killed me. Keep in mind I'm not fat, I'm very lean and skinny so my body just couldn't seem to handle it. Even tonight after reading all this, I tried sticking to meat and pork rinds for a snack. I got very tired and felt I would collapse. I had some pomegranate juice and some oats and suddenly feel much better so it seems hopeless. It's like my body is refusing anything but the impossible or an unhealthy diet. I been trying for over a decade to eat in a way my body can thrive on. I've tried all kinds of things. Nothing seems to work except the one I'm currently doing that of course has somehow got me pre diabetic. Very frustrating.
Anyhow I'm open to suggestions but odds are I have tried it. I have a host of food intolerances and what I'm eating now is a direct result of trial and error for over 10 years.
Ok but I only weigh 150lbs and I'm 6 feet tall, if there was fat on my organs, wouldn't I weigh more?@SargeMaximus the thing about carbs; our bodies are very, very lazy. And carbs can quickly be turned into energy for it to use. Carb loading makes sense if you want to get energy fast, and your body can actually process what you put in it. Yours, however, can't metabolise it like it should. It can use fats and protein for energy too, and perfectly fine, but it takes a little longer for a body to get there, so it'll always take the easiest route. You've been eating a high carb diet, and when you suddenly go decidedly low carb, your body can not possibly switch gears that fasts. It needs to get fat adapted first. (Meaning it starts burning fats for energy). It takes a few weeks, and you will be tired, your joints and muscles will be sore and feel like you have a flu, you'll have headaches... All of which can be helped by temporarily taking some electrolyte supplements, to help with the adjustment. After you've gone through it, (so don't quit after a few hours of feeling like a dishrag... It takes decidedly longer than that), you're perfectly fine on the faps provided by meats, fish, poultry, full fat dairy, avocado and the like... Mind you, you can get to low carb in stages, no need to go from a very high carb diet to carnivore... I did carnivore for a while and my blood sugars had never been better, I felt physically and emotionally stable, and I could take on the world. I do, alas, have a predisposition to a rare kind of kidneystone. So while carni is perfectl;y fine and an excellent idea for quite a few people, for some, like your friend possiblty, who was stacking iron, it might not be. (That, or some people do it wrong and end up with scurvy because they skip the organ meats where all the vitamins are). In any case... You can do this slowly. Replace the sweet potatoes with cauliflower. Switch to above ground veg rather than oats. Low carb yog with low carb protein powder might be a better choice. Make changes slowly, take your carbs down gradually, and keep those electrolyte supplements and/or bone broth at hand. It could ease the transition and you might be able to avoid what we call carb-flu that way.
As for you being skinny, there's such a thing as TOFI: Thin Outside, Fat Inside. It's when fat cells get packed onto organs like your liver and pancreas. You wouldn't be able to tell on the outside, but it would show up on an ultrasound. Not all T2's are overweight. But the bulk of us do have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease due to the liver storing the carbs it can't burn, as fats...
In any case, don't lose hope just yet, okay? You have to give your body a little time to shift gears, it doesn't happen overnight. And carbs are addictive, dropping them can and likely will result in some withdrawal symptoms, and they're not fun. Sorry. But once you're on the other side, fat adapted and with your blood sugars under control, you'll be glad you tackled those few weeks of dish-raggedliness.
Good luck!
Jo
PS: https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html might help some. As can dietdoctor.com .
I was on keto for a good month. I am familiar with the keto flu but I was drinking salt water for electrolytes but could barely walk and I had a job where I was walking a lot at the time so that was a no go. Plus I didn't just feel under the weather, I felt like I was dying. Not a fan of that. Since embracing carbs my life had improved for a time but not lately.,How long were you keto? What you describe sounds a lot like Keto flu - but it also sounds a lot like my thyroid reaction to extended keto. And lower carb, doesn't have to mean keto - it's a contiunuum. You have to find what works for your body along that continuum somewhere. Maybe eat half as much sweet potato and add some beetroot or something like that. It lowers the carb, without cutting it entirely.
As to the impossibility of finding a diet that works, I hear you there, too. I have been struggling with that for 25 years and I periodically find one, but then the board changes and I am back to square one. We have to take this as a lifelong n=1 experiment.
Good luck, Sarge! It's a tough one. Tougher for some than for others.
Yes, you will definitely need to add butter or olive oil to the cauliflower, and eat plenty of both. Since you are eating clean, you are not super likely to have any downsides to eating fat. It's the folks who eat a lot of empty carbs plus seed oils who are most likely to have problems with fats (though I interpret that as a problem with empty carbs.)Are you saying I can eat as much fa as I want? What are the downsides to that? I'd rather just switch over eventually but I fear my body simply needs carbs. I was seeing improvement adding carbs till things went south about a year ago and my health began to fall apart.
Okay, I'll try to cover everything, but it's a lot so I may miss something, so do forgive me if I do, okay? Yes, fat weighs something, but I have a feeling you're thinking you need pounds and pounds of it to inhibit the organs' function. If the fat is marbled throughout the organ, maybe just 100 grams worth, I dunno, maybe less, rather than just packed upon it. It's not so much the amount and weight of it, just that it's there. Doesn't have to be a whole lot, maybe just a slice of bacon or less worth, but it's just not supposed to be there, wrecking your insulin sensitivity and the functioning of the organ. And both the liver and pancreas are very important to a diabetic or prediabetic, we need to get them working properly again without wearing one out (pancreas) or piling reserves you don't need on the other (liver). You can be built like 80's Arnold Schwarzenegger with not a gram of fat, seemingly, and still have a fatty liver. And if it's combined with prediabetes, you can be pretty sure the fat is coming from stored carbs. You can't burn them efficiently, because you're insulin resistant, and with no insulin helping you sort the glucose the carbs turn in to, your body has to put it somewhere.... So it puts it in fat cells. In your liver. Which you won't feel until it gets pretty bad. By the time mine was discovered, my liver was rock-hard, and I couldn't bend over to put my shoes on with the pain of it. Was I massive? Heck yeah. But it started long, long before that, and because I had a bunch of succesive locum specialists, no-one bothered to go over my blood test results and connect the dots. (The doc who discovered the ovarian cysts that caused my insulin resistance, wasn't the same one who gave me the news. So no-one bothered to check my HbA1c, liver function etc, and I was basically probably diabetic, going by my symptoms, for about ten years before diagnosis. By then, I was morbidly obese, yeah.).Ok but I only weigh 150lbs and I'm 6 feet tall, if there was fat on my organs, wouldn't I weigh more?
As for switching to lower carbs gradually, I like that idea. I will get some cauliflour tomorrow and begin immediately but won't I need to supplement something for the lost calories? When eating clean I'm finding it very hard to gain weight and I'm beginning totake longer and longer to heal from injuries. I suspect it is because I don't get enough calories tho now I'm thinking it's because the insulin inolerance is blocking it somehow? Not sure how that works.
Are you saying I can eat as much fat as I want? Wha are the downsides to that? I'd rather just switch over eventually but I fear my body simply needs carbs. I was seeing improvement adding carbs till things went south about a year ago and my health began to fall apart.
I was on keto for a good month. I am familiar with the keto flu but I was drinking salt water for electrolytes but could barely walk and I had a job where I was walking a lot at the time so that was a no go. Plus I didn't just feel under the weather, I felt like I was dying. Not a fan of that. Since embracing carbs my life had improved for a time but not lately.,
I prepare my sweet potatoes specially for diabetics because as mentioned I wanted to avoid diabetes. IK boil them for 45 mins which is supposed to make them low glycemic index.
My experience is much the same as you in that I find I get things good with my diet but then my body goes crazy again. I suspect there's more to it than we know
Thank you for taking the time to help me understand this. I have no allegiance to foods so I want to get on the diet to thriving ASAP. I'm also quite overwhelmed so I'm happy you and everyone is helping me navigateOkay, I'll try to cover everything, but it's a lot so I may miss something, so do forgive me if I do, okay? Yes, fat weighs something, but I have a feeling you're thinking you need pounds and pounds of it to inhibit the organs' function. If the fat is marbled throughout the organ, maybe just 100 grams worth, I dunno, maybe less, rather than just packed upon it. It's not so much the amount and weight of it, just that it's there. Doesn't have to be a whole lot, maybe just a slice of bacon or less worth, but it's just not supposed to be there, wrecking your insulin sensitivity and the functioning of the organ. And both the liver and pancreas are very important to a diabetic or prediabetic, we need to get them working properly again without wearing one out (pancreas) or piling reserves you don't need on the other (liver). You can be built like 80's Arnold Schwarzenegger with not a gram of fat, seemingly, and still have a fatty liver. And if it's combined with prediabetes, you can be pretty sure the fat is coming from stored carbs. You can't burn them efficiently, because you're insulin resistant, and with no insulin helping you sort the glucose the carbs turn in to, your body has to put it somewhere.... So it puts it in fat cells. In your liver. Which you won't feel until it gets pretty bad. By the time mine was discovered, my liver was rock-hard, and I couldn't bend over to put my shoes on with the pain of it. Was I massive? Heck yeah. But it started long, long before that, and because I had a bunch of succesive locum specialists, no-one bothered to go over my blood test results and connect the dots. (The doc who discovered the ovarian cysts that caused my insulin resistance, wasn't the same one who gave me the news. So no-one bothered to check my HbA1c, liver function etc, and I was basically probably diabetic, going by my symptoms, for about ten years before diagnosis. By then, I was morbidly obese, yeah.).
Cauliflower is happily a very versatile thing. Can be a mash, can be a rice, can be very welcoming to real butter or massive amounts of grated cheese, and whatever herbs/spices you like. Kind of like nature's chicken, really, it can taste like whatever you want it to, and I do love me some (in my case, due to issues with cow milk), goat's cheese. Keep in mind that whatever fats you add to bulk up your meal, that they're not overly processed. Seed oils and such are generally not a good idea. Butter, ghee, coconut oil, olive oil are fine, as is lard. And like I said, cheeses! Lean meats provide protein, yes, but the fattier cuts are more filling and give your body fuel to go on to replace tha carbs. (Fats are metabolised faster than protein. The latter'll help built/maintain muscle-mass though.) So go for the chicken with the skin on, the pork belly, the fatty ground beef. Breakfast? Maybe invest in a hot plate and make yourself some scrambled eggs with bacon, high meat content sausages and whatnot.
The whole glycemic index thing... Let it go. Your body is gearing up to become a type 2, not a type 1, so it's not particularly relevant. The glycemic index lets you know whether the carbs, or the glucose they turn in to, are fast or slow ones. That's nice to know if you have to stagger your insulin intake for instance,or need something fast to help with a hypo, but it's not relevant for non-insulin dependant T2's and prediabetics, really. (Some of us are on insulin, and then it does matter, but you're nowhere near that stage and we can hopefully avoid it all together!) Whether you get a big, short spike due to a high glycemix index, or a very long, somewhat more moderate one which is stretched out over hours because it's low, doesn't matter: It's still a spike/rise, and your body'll have to deal with it, one way or another. Which it can't. It's still a kick in the head, no matter which way you turn it. So index doesn't matter, the carb load however, does.
Taking myself as an example again: I was told to cut the fats and eat massive amounts of carbs. Thanks, hospital dietician: that got me to 105 kilo's. It's when I switched it around that things changed. I went for high fat, low carb, and I could go shopping for a new wardrobe a few months in a row, because the fat was falling off of me. Perks of that, I no longer had wounds that wouldn't heal, no more boobthrush, suddenly there was emotional stability, and oh my, I had energy! Where first I couldn't lift a fork, and sometimes my knees would give our due to muscle weakness, I was now walking long distances with rather heavy camera gear. So yeah, fats, the healthy ones, are most certainly my friends. They don't raise my blood sugars, they keep me full, and they keep me active. Haven't really discovered a downside yet, but if I do, I'll let you know. (And no, my cholesterol's fine, the bulk of it is something we make, not what we consume anyway.).
Just salt water? Nothing with also magnesium, potassium, calcium? Because you needed those supplemented, too... You say you felt like dying, could you be more specific? Because if your heart was doing loop-de-loops for instance: when you're low on potassium, you can end up in hospital with a heart that goes absolutely bonkers. Pounding, arrythmia, all of it. Been to hospital with my mom more than once because she was on diuretics that made her potassium go too low, and she'd sometimes forget to take her potassium supplements.
I think that covers everything for now. But might I suggest you read Dr. Jason Fung's the Diabetes Code? He answers a lot of your questions and may be more medically thorough than I could ever be, with my annecdotal stuff.
Good luck!
Jo
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