Oh and for an HbA1C test, it doesn't matter if fasted or not since it measures the glycation of red blood cells and they 'live' an average of 3 months - so it's like an average of your blood glucose levels over the last 3 months.
Just Got my Casual "Oh your blood test showed prediabetes"
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Wow thank you, this looks promising... I can't eat nuts tho. Also, I've read that dairy spikes insulin? And my last concern is that I'm so skinny losing any more weight may be dangerous wouldnt it? Thanks!Hi @SargeMaximus and welcome to the forum.
I am/was a TOFI - a slim T2 Diabetic (now in remission for over 3yrs).
I ate similar to what you seem to be doing now for over 10 years (low fat, lots of whole grains and fruit). Then I was diagnosed with Cardio Vascular disease (result 3x bypass) then following that Type 2 Diabetes. All while eating in a way my doctor, the NHS, the government, - all the experts told me would reduce my chances of those 2 health problems.
I found this forum, Dr David Unwin's success with his T2D patients on a low Carb way of eating (no calorie reduction) and Jo Kalsbeek's 'Nutritional Thingy':
The Nutritional Thingy
There’s a few things you should know. 1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested , so not just straight sugars, but starches...josekalsbeek.blogspot.com
Those are what got me into T2D remission.
I made the transition to Low Carb slowly, I added lots of high calorie foods like cheese, eggs, fatty meat, fatty fish, avocado, nuts to compensate for the reduced calories from carbs.
I switched from ordinary salt to 'Lo Salt' which is lower in sodium and contains lots of potassium, to compensate for no longer eating bananas and I took a magnesium supplement for a few months.
I had : No Keto flu; No loss of energy' bu5 I did lose weight (mainly water at first).
As soon as my Blood Glucose numbers got to where I wanted them, I increased amount of both Protein and of fat that I was eating (more eggs, nuts and cheese). I got my weight to where I wanted it and then eased off on the cheese and my weight is now stable.
Carbs spike insulin - I know because high Blood Glucose spike Insulin and carbs spile blood glucose.
On the other hand, high fat dairy doesn't move Blood glucose at all - so seems highly unlikely to spike insulin.
However, as a pre-diabetic or diabetic, any natural way of rising insulin is a good way of reducing Blood Glucose and becoming less diabetic !
On the other hand, high fat dairy doesn't move Blood glucose at all - so seems highly unlikely to spike insulin.
However, as a pre-diabetic or diabetic, any natural way of rising insulin is a good way of reducing Blood Glucose and becoming less diabetic !
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Where did you read that dairy raises insulin? There is comparatively little carb (it's lactose) in dairy. Insulin rises in response to glucose in the bloodstream: the more glucose, the more insulin.
How can losing some of the water that carbs retained in your body be harmful? Are you not allowed to drink at work?
How can losing some fat (probably only in/around your internal organs) be harmful? Do you need fat as insulation because you are going to North or South Pole, or going swimming in icy water?
Low carb does tend to reduce weight (not always), but only weight that isn't muscle or healthy internal organs.
How can losing some fat (probably only in/around your internal organs) be harmful? Do you need fat as insulation because you are going to North or South Pole, or going swimming in icy water?
Low carb does tend to reduce weight (not always), but only weight that isn't muscle or healthy internal organs.
Think about this for a second:
If it was true then there would be no need for all those drugs for Type 2 diabetes - just drink milk instead!
So no metformin, no Gliclazide etc.
So as I mentioned I work in construction and I live in Canada so I work outside. Not sure you understand how cold it gets here in the winter but I absolutely need all the padding I can get to stay warm
I mean, blueberries can reduce inflammation like advil so... yeah often there is a natural route one can take instead of pharmaceuticals
JoKalsbeek
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Let's see... The fat isn't supposed to be there at all. Think of insulin as a key. It opens up a cell, lets the glucose (that comes from carbs you eat) in, and the cell can then burn the glucose for fuel. Bob's your uncle, right? It gets burned off, it's gone. But when you're predisposed to diabetes, (and yeah, T2 is genetic, for the most part, unless brought on by long term steroid use and such), you slowly but surely become insensitive to your own insulin. The bulk of the keys won't turn the lock. So you produce more insulin, making your tolerance levels for it ever higher.... Until basically none of the keys fit anymore. You have lots and lots of insulin, and it's just not doing anything. The glucose doesn't enter cells to be burned for fuel, but it does end up just about everywhere else. Your saliva (how are your teeth? More cavities lately?), tears, blood, eyeballs, organs.... And think of it as it sanding away at your insides all the while, doing damage. Your body tries to store it, so it doesn't do damage, and the only place that'll take excess glucose is a fat cell. It's not how many you have (apparently your family has relatively few), but how full they end up being. Those suckers stretch! So the fat stores in the liver were never supposed to be there; it was supposed to be burned off, exhaled with your breath, wiped away with your sweat. How to remove that fat? Not putting more glucose into your body than it can handle. Because if it's not overloaded on glucose, then it doesn't get stored in fat cells.
I had a lot of problems with my feet. Just a sideways look at my toes, and they'd get inflamed. Weeping bloody pus for months, sometimes years. Made walking very difficult. That's also why people get checked for high blood sugars before having surgery, because if someone's high all the time, wounds won't heal properly, and chances of infection and sepsis go up exponentially. That's high glucose for you, and another reason to want to get it sorted. For me it was just bloody, weeping toes. For my uncle it was losing his feet up to his ankles, then halfway down his chins, then poof, both legs gone just above the knee. Still eating massive amounts of sugar though, because he loved it so. I am not going to be my uncle. I'll keep my feet, thanks.
So you're prediabetic. Keto obviously didn't tickle you pink. And your HbA1c, which I assume got done, is an average of the past 3 months, so it's not a fasting test, as an aside... No need to go straight to keto or the even more extreme, carnivore, if you're "just" prediabetic. A few tweaks are probably enough to get you back into the normal range. If you're a clean eater I assume you don't drink pop or beer? Beer is very carby, pop too, but if those are still on your menu, maybe ditch those. Just make a change here and there, and do something called moderately low carb. Mainly by just doing what we call eating to your meter. Test right before a meal and 2 hours after the first bite. If your blood glucose doesn't go up more than 2.0 mmol/l in that time, and preferably less, that meal suited you just fine: your body could process what you put in it. As a pediabetic you can probably eat a bit more carbs than I can. So find what works for you. And keep in mind, what you ditch in carbs, you have to make up for in fats and protein. Lose the sweet potatoes? Put in an extra chicken leg! Heck, take another two! Use mayo, bulk up the foods you do have in spades. And cauliflower's usually used because it's versatile, low carb, relatively cheap and easily bulked up. It's not some mythical superfood, it's just practical for a low carber. Just like broccoli. But you can use spinach as well, add in some bacon cubes, cheeses, salmon, cream or whatever... Find a carb-neutral main thing to base a meal on, and build around that with fats and protein. That's the idea. For breakfast, maybe try Purition protein powder (also very fiber-rich and gluten free) in your low carb, full fat yoghurt instead of oats, if you can't stomach eggs and bacon in the a.m.... It's a bit of a puzzle sometimes, trying to find what works for you... But if you feel like very low carb isn't for you, and your numbers are prediabetic, then there's no reason whatsoever that going moderately low carb won't do the trick.
JoKalsbeek
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And the rest f the post, because it was longer than allowed...
...Ah, yes... Regular eating... When my mom passed earlier this year, and in the preceding 6 weeks, I ate a lot of food I shouldn't. Part ease, part grief, part a severely botched rootcanal. It was a fraction of the carbs my husband ate, but still about three to four times more than I usually would have. While my blood sugars weren't as bad as they would've been on the same diet 7 years ago, I still went up, and I regained some of the weight I'd shed 7 years back. Being a 44 year old perimenopausal woman with thyroid issues means I can't shift the weight as easily as I could've done maybe even 4 years ago. But yeah.... The way I ate for a bit there, in my grief and emotional and physical pain, was what others might've considered moderately low carb. And my blood sugars, which didn't hit 22's or anything, went no higher than nines in spite of me having a raging infection in my jaw, well... That food did have an impact. I'm seven years into low carb eating, save for that glitch. My wounds heal, I have energy I didn't have for a long time, I am stronger, my eyesight makes sense for someone my age, my (present since birth) heart murmur is still nothing to worry about, I am emotionally as stable as a rather messed up woman can be... I also know if I get back to eating like my non-diabetic husband does, I will be back to where I started within a year. I'll be 15 or 20 kilo's heavier than I am now, I'll be ill all the time, with infections, wounds and fungii running rampant, and too weak to leave the bed. My life'd just grind to a halt again, and not be worth living. So... If you decide to tackle your (pre)diabetes through diet, and only diet... Then this is for life. Maybe you'll ditch the diet for a christmas dinner, maybe for a wedding, but the rest of the time... It's a long term thing. It's not something that'll be a permanent fix, because for T2, there isn't one. You can start medication, but as time goes by you'll need more of it, and maybe a few different kinds. Some'll eventually progress to insulin. Some do a combo, especially if there's a reason for high blood sugars that can't be avoided, like needing steroids to control rheumatism or asthma. Then diet and meds can keep things from getting worse. But if you do nothing, then it will progress. So you'll need to make a choice. Moderate to low carb eating, or medication, or a smidge of both.
When you went keto, did you just ditch all carbs, and not up the fats and protein to compensate? Because than you're not doing keto, then you're on a crash/starvation diet and that'll just waste away your muscles within no time flat. Just wondering. People sometimes make small mistakes that have big impacts, and that way lies scurvy, rickets etc... You really do need to know what you're doing before following any extreme diet if it's supposed to be doable long term, because it's remarcable how fast we'll be deficit in rather vital things if we get it even a little bit wrong. (I personally have to keep an eye on fatty fish, because I don't absorb vitamin D well, for instance: I had rickets for most of my life. I get my b*tt kicked if I don't have fish once or twice a week, at minimum.). I don't know what you ate, mind you, but that'd be my guess. Not enough fats and protein, from your description.
Like I said, our bodies are lazy. They like carbs because they can turn those sugars into energy the fastest, it has to work more to turn fats into energy, and even harder to do the same with protein. Also, carbs tickle our pleasure centre, same as cocaine would. (It makes a brain scan light up like a christmas tree in the exact same way). The thing is, it's a quick fix... And a quick crash afterwards. Carbs demand carbs. You feel better for a moment, then a few hours later you crash again and need more. Exactly like an addiction to hard drugs works. It's temporary, and it's fleeting. And it's a cycle. Breaking the cycle is hard and unpleasant, it truly is going cold turkey with the phsyical drawbacks that come with it. But it does have its perks. Like no diabetic complications.
Keep this in mind: There are no healthy carbs for a type 2 diabetic. A carb is a carb is a carb. You can't metabolise them as others can. Thanks, genes. A friend of mine is allergic to peanuts, her little girl can't kiss her if she's had some, for fear of killing her. I'm fine with a few peanuts... She's not, because her body can't handle them. Diabetes is not an allergy, so there the analogy goes wonky, but... The main point is that you have to realise that your body just doesn't work the way other people's does. So you can't do everything they do.
On more thing. @Antje77 'll know this, I keep forgetting which it is, but there's a type of diabetes (Mody? Lada?) that runs very strongly in families. Usually slim ones. It might be worth it to get the potential type checked if things keep progressing, with the blood sugars. Because for those types, low carb, moderate or extreme, isn't going to cut it. In any case... You're asking all the right questions. I don't know if my answers are in any way useful, but I'm hoping they are. When it comes down to it though, diabetes isn't a death sentence, you can get help in various ways, you have a say in how you tackle this and you're not going to die any time soon. Unless you get hit by a car or something.
Better get dinner started, husband's almost home and I have to get out there for my flu-jab right after the noms.
Later!
Jo
...Ah, yes... Regular eating... When my mom passed earlier this year, and in the preceding 6 weeks, I ate a lot of food I shouldn't. Part ease, part grief, part a severely botched rootcanal. It was a fraction of the carbs my husband ate, but still about three to four times more than I usually would have. While my blood sugars weren't as bad as they would've been on the same diet 7 years ago, I still went up, and I regained some of the weight I'd shed 7 years back. Being a 44 year old perimenopausal woman with thyroid issues means I can't shift the weight as easily as I could've done maybe even 4 years ago. But yeah.... The way I ate for a bit there, in my grief and emotional and physical pain, was what others might've considered moderately low carb. And my blood sugars, which didn't hit 22's or anything, went no higher than nines in spite of me having a raging infection in my jaw, well... That food did have an impact. I'm seven years into low carb eating, save for that glitch. My wounds heal, I have energy I didn't have for a long time, I am stronger, my eyesight makes sense for someone my age, my (present since birth) heart murmur is still nothing to worry about, I am emotionally as stable as a rather messed up woman can be... I also know if I get back to eating like my non-diabetic husband does, I will be back to where I started within a year. I'll be 15 or 20 kilo's heavier than I am now, I'll be ill all the time, with infections, wounds and fungii running rampant, and too weak to leave the bed. My life'd just grind to a halt again, and not be worth living. So... If you decide to tackle your (pre)diabetes through diet, and only diet... Then this is for life. Maybe you'll ditch the diet for a christmas dinner, maybe for a wedding, but the rest of the time... It's a long term thing. It's not something that'll be a permanent fix, because for T2, there isn't one. You can start medication, but as time goes by you'll need more of it, and maybe a few different kinds. Some'll eventually progress to insulin. Some do a combo, especially if there's a reason for high blood sugars that can't be avoided, like needing steroids to control rheumatism or asthma. Then diet and meds can keep things from getting worse. But if you do nothing, then it will progress. So you'll need to make a choice. Moderate to low carb eating, or medication, or a smidge of both.
When you went keto, did you just ditch all carbs, and not up the fats and protein to compensate? Because than you're not doing keto, then you're on a crash/starvation diet and that'll just waste away your muscles within no time flat. Just wondering. People sometimes make small mistakes that have big impacts, and that way lies scurvy, rickets etc... You really do need to know what you're doing before following any extreme diet if it's supposed to be doable long term, because it's remarcable how fast we'll be deficit in rather vital things if we get it even a little bit wrong. (I personally have to keep an eye on fatty fish, because I don't absorb vitamin D well, for instance: I had rickets for most of my life. I get my b*tt kicked if I don't have fish once or twice a week, at minimum.). I don't know what you ate, mind you, but that'd be my guess. Not enough fats and protein, from your description.
Like I said, our bodies are lazy. They like carbs because they can turn those sugars into energy the fastest, it has to work more to turn fats into energy, and even harder to do the same with protein. Also, carbs tickle our pleasure centre, same as cocaine would. (It makes a brain scan light up like a christmas tree in the exact same way). The thing is, it's a quick fix... And a quick crash afterwards. Carbs demand carbs. You feel better for a moment, then a few hours later you crash again and need more. Exactly like an addiction to hard drugs works. It's temporary, and it's fleeting. And it's a cycle. Breaking the cycle is hard and unpleasant, it truly is going cold turkey with the phsyical drawbacks that come with it. But it does have its perks. Like no diabetic complications.
Keep this in mind: There are no healthy carbs for a type 2 diabetic. A carb is a carb is a carb. You can't metabolise them as others can. Thanks, genes. A friend of mine is allergic to peanuts, her little girl can't kiss her if she's had some, for fear of killing her. I'm fine with a few peanuts... She's not, because her body can't handle them. Diabetes is not an allergy, so there the analogy goes wonky, but... The main point is that you have to realise that your body just doesn't work the way other people's does. So you can't do everything they do.
On more thing. @Antje77 'll know this, I keep forgetting which it is, but there's a type of diabetes (Mody? Lada?) that runs very strongly in families. Usually slim ones. It might be worth it to get the potential type checked if things keep progressing, with the blood sugars. Because for those types, low carb, moderate or extreme, isn't going to cut it. In any case... You're asking all the right questions. I don't know if my answers are in any way useful, but I'm hoping they are. When it comes down to it though, diabetes isn't a death sentence, you can get help in various ways, you have a say in how you tackle this and you're not going to die any time soon. Unless you get hit by a car or something.
Better get dinner started, husband's almost home and I have to get out there for my flu-jab right after the noms.
Later!
Jo
I had always suffered from cold hands and cold feet throughout my life - particularly when skiing ( I have skied in the Rockies). But no longer!
A way that some people can lose weight on Low Carb even when eating more calories ( there are twice as many calories in fat than in same weight of carbs) is an increased resting metabolic rate. It is to this that I atribute not needing to wear heated gloves and heated footware any more.
A way that some people can lose weight on Low Carb even when eating more calories ( there are twice as many calories in fat than in same weight of carbs) is an increased resting metabolic rate. It is to this that I atribute not needing to wear heated gloves and heated footware any more.
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JoKalsbeek
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Lived in Canada for a bit. I was so happy when my first Ontario blizzard happened, because I thought I'd just missed the snow. I got out of the shower that evening, saw it was snowing, and ran outside. When I got back in, my hair, which I hadn't bothered to dry before going out, was frozen solid on my head and I had learned that Canuck-winters are a far cry from the mild stuff the Dutch get. I was the only one crazy enough to be out there along with my then-partner (who thought it was hilarious that I got so excited over a foot of snow) and the guy working the snowplow.
All I can say is, thermal underwear. Several layers. I hear you, but yeah... If it can't be fats, make it alpacawool!
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Thanks for this. I've had a very quick look.
The 2015 paper is based on 275 middle-aged non-diabetic women. Unfortunately it's a self-report study - this is what people said they ate, rather than what they actually ate. So you need to approach the conclusions with some caution.
The references in the paper mainly say that there is little coherence between the GI value of milk and the amount of insulin produced. The studies all appear to be quite old - one is from 1986 - and the focus on GI was current then. The most recent paper is from 2009 and was on eight-year-old boys (and looking primarily for impact on growth factor - either from casein or whey).
At best, it seems that the body probably produces more insulin than would be predicted from the lactose content alone: the paper does suggest that this might be helpful to people who need to manage their blood glucose levels, and also that this might contribute to insulin resistance. It doesn't seem to know which.
CatsFive
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Hi there - Not all fat is visible, and in some folks, it doesn't cause a lot of internal fat for problems to arise.
If you are taking longer to heal from injuries, in your shoes, I would be upping my protein but a decent margin, just to make sure you are taking enough on board.
In terms of being low carb and slim, that's me. Low carb doesn't have to be a weight loss regime. I have lived a low carb lifestyle for 10 years, with the last 4 or 5 totally gluten free. I also have an Instant Pot (well, 2 actually, but that's unimportant), and several other kitchen gadgets.
Particularly in the cooler months, the IP is great. A deecnt hearty stew - lots of meat and veg, or chilli, with a dollop of sour cream added on serving to enrich it all, and ensure the calories are up there.
I note that you tried keto at some stage? How long did you try that?
For folks with a carb-based diet, going from carb-based straight to keto, their bodies can object. Our bodies like routines, and when those routines are interupted, our body objects - sometimes we have indigestion, sometimes we feel like we've been run over by a bus and other times it's headaches and aches and pains.
That our bodies run to routines extends to our digestive systems generating the digestive juices and enzymes required to digest efficiently, to big changes can catch it out, and it's just not prepared for what we throw at it. This kind of thing going keto, or very low carb is often referred to as carb flu.
As someone diagnosed with prediabetes, you probably don't need to make massive, massive changes, but it does make sense to make changes to stave off T2, or even reduce to under pre-diabetic levels again.
As someone who has walked the walk, I'd urge you to open your mind, and read a lot on here. Basically, long term pre-diabetes and T2 is strongly linked with how we live our lives - especially of we want to avoid medications or complications. Not everyone is able to do it, but for may it is very doable - and have a good life.
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Do you have significant inflamation? If so, where is that? Is it in your joints, gastro or elsewhere?
As others have said, low carb is not the same as low GI - some low GI foods would spike my blood sugars - and there are some famous athletes who are low carb such as LeBron.
If you try avoiding low gi and go for low carb instead then fill up with healthy fats such as butter, olive oil, etc. Eat the fat on meat, the skin on chicken, eat some cheese, add in a little good quality dark chocolate if you like that (85% plus). And don't forget that cauliflower is not just a rice substitute but makes good mash too.
A few sites for keto/lowcarb with a one pot
alldayidreamaboutfood.com
tasty.co
gypsyplate.com
I mainly eat salmon or chicken with green veg and cauliflower for dinner. Breakfast is usually a porridge made with milled flaxseed plus chia seed and a mix of chopped nuts and seeds - served with double cream.
For lunch if I eat any I'll have eggs or cheese and maybe salad, or low carb cake with coffee.
I boil up a carton of eggs, cool them quickly then store them in their shells in the fridge for up to 5 days.
I cook with a crock pot, a toaster, a kettle, an induction hob and a combination microwave/oven. With those, I can cook just about anything I want to and even for a group of people with some planning!
I don't use my crockpot all the time but I know there are even low-carb cakes and even fudge recipes that are made in a slow cooker/crockpot.
If you try avoiding low gi and go for low carb instead then fill up with healthy fats such as butter, olive oil, etc. Eat the fat on meat, the skin on chicken, eat some cheese, add in a little good quality dark chocolate if you like that (85% plus). And don't forget that cauliflower is not just a rice substitute but makes good mash too.
A few sites for keto/lowcarb with a one pot
Keto Slow Cooker Recipes
We are dishing up the Best Keto Slow Cooker Recipes, from breakfast to dessert. Simplify your meal prep and your life with these mouthwatering crockpot meals!
alldayidreamaboutfood.com
27 Delicious Low-Carb Dinners To Make In A Slow Cooker
Eating low-carb can be hard, but cooking low-carb doesn't have to be.
tasty.co
The 30 BEST Keto Crockpot Recipes
This great collection of easy Keto Crockpot Recipes has plenty of great low carb dinner ideas for you to cook in your slow cooker.
gypsyplate.com
I mainly eat salmon or chicken with green veg and cauliflower for dinner. Breakfast is usually a porridge made with milled flaxseed plus chia seed and a mix of chopped nuts and seeds - served with double cream.
For lunch if I eat any I'll have eggs or cheese and maybe salad, or low carb cake with coffee.
I boil up a carton of eggs, cool them quickly then store them in their shells in the fridge for up to 5 days.
I cook with a crock pot, a toaster, a kettle, an induction hob and a combination microwave/oven. With those, I can cook just about anything I want to and even for a group of people with some planning!
I don't use my crockpot all the time but I know there are even low-carb cakes and even fudge recipes that are made in a slow cooker/crockpot.
Yes I want to GAIN weight/muscle too tho. So it's hard. I tried keto for about a month before I nearly died I am certain of it
Also I can't justify hard boiled eggs. The shells never come off clean.It wastes time and it wastes edible egg that sticks to the shell.
I do have an open mind. I've tried nearly every diet one can think of. It's easy for you to say I was just experiencing keto flu when you never felt what I felt the day I stopped.
I used to, no longer with my diet changes. Bread/gluten caused arthritis in my right hand when I was a teen. I don't have it anymore. I'm also prone to rosacea and have it even today. Can't figure out what causes it.
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I do have several layers of thermal underwear thoLived in Canada for a bit. I was so happy when my first Ontario blizzard happened, because I thought I'd just missed the snow. I got out of the shower that evening, saw it was snowing, and ran outside. When I got back in, my hair, which I hadn't bothered to dry before going out, was frozen solid on my head and I had learned that Canuck-winters are a far cry from the mild stuff the Dutch get. I was the only one crazy enough to be out there along with my then-partner (who thought it was hilarious that I got so excited over a foot of snow) and the guy working the snowplow.
All I can say is, thermal underwear. Several layers. I hear you, but yeah... If it can't be fats, make it alpacawool!
@JoKalsbeek
So I had my appendix taken out last year and there was no mention of high glucose. This just seems so odd to me. Aside from callouses on my big toes, my feet are fine. Yes I had a cavity this year and they say there are more but I attribute that to my lax brushing lately due to time constraints (I work so much i barely have enough time to eat when I'm home and pack my lunch for the next day before it's time for bed)
I don't drink pop or beer normally. This year I drank pop a few times trying to up my fast carbs. What was happening is I was getting constipated and I reasoned that my body didn't have enough energy to digest all the slow carbs I was eating. Adding a few fast carbs helped me immensely (again, the opposite of what you say should be happening). It wasn't until I added strategic fast carbs that my energy levels improved. Prior to this year, I never drank pop or beer more than once or twice a year. I've only ever been drunk once, never done drugs. I'm a health nut, always eating whole foods unless my energy is so low I grab a burger and feel better. Things like that.
The common theme for me is that I eat healthy till my health suffers, then I use junk food to restore it. Again, the opposite of what I'm taking away from this, but those are the facts.
As for the rest I guess I just gotta keep at it. Ditching oats should be easy enough. I'll grab some cauliflower today. Thanks
