Keto - no weight loss

ketopaul · Sep 14, 2017

Hi there

I did a trial in keto a couple of months ago, but I wasn't very successful.

I didn't calculate any macros, I simply kicked out anything grain based, sugars and fruit. I mainly ate eggs, meat and fish, and some veggies (but not a lot). I did drink alcohol in the weekend while I was on the diet. I also didn't count calories.

I did loose a couple of pounds, but quickly plateaued. My weight loss wasn't anything even close to what other people report they are loosing.

Any tips?

P.S. I don't have diabetes, just trying to loose weight

Bluetit1802 · Sep 14, 2017

How much alcohol are you talking about?
Alcoholic drinks are very calorific.

ketopaul · Sep 14, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
How much alcohol are you talking about?
Alcoholic drinks are very calorific.

Good question. It would vary from a weekend to weekend but I would say 4-5 drinks on Friday and Saturday. Sometimes more and sometimes also a couple on other days

Bluetit1802 · Sep 14, 2017

Perhaps try a couple of weeks without any and see what happens?
Intermittent fasting also works for some people, such as skipping lunch or dinner, and absolutely no snacking.

Indy51 · Sep 15, 2017

Pretty sure I read somewhere that alcohol blocks fat burning in the same way that glucose does.

frankbegbie · Sep 15, 2017

Maybe try the low carb drinks like Coors Lite and Vodka and Diet Pepsi.

ketopaul · Sep 15, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
Perhaps try a couple of weeks without any and see what happens?
Intermittent fasting also works for some people, such as skipping lunch or dinner, and absolutely no snacking.

Well I just had a month of no drinking... but I was only 60% low carb (would eat a sandwich for dinner)... and of course no weight loss. Sigh. I guess I will need to step up my game . Will try to go at it 100%, just need to get my self ready

ketopaul · Sep 15, 2017

frankbegbie said:
Maybe try the low carb drinks like Coors Lite and Vodka and Diet Pepsi.

Good tip! I will

frankbegbie · Sep 15, 2017

ketopaul said:
Good tip! I will

To be fair, the Coors isn't great tasting but it's better than not having a drink at all.

I love the Rum and Pepsi myself.

Also make myself a few nibbles of different cheeses instead of all the crisps I used to eat.

ketopaul · Sep 15, 2017

frankbegbie said:
To be fair, the Coors isn't great tasting but it's better than not having a drink at all.

I love the Rum and Pepsi myself.

Also make myself a few nibbles of different cheeses instead of all the crisps I used to eat.

And that's working for you - in terms of weight loss?

Resurgam · Sep 15, 2017

I'm afraid that low carb does mean low carb. You can't claim to have kicked out anything grain based and still be drinking beer - not without a few raised eyebrows.
Maybe look at Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution as there is a lot of information about diabetes control and reversal in the edition I have - it was published in 2002 so it is a pity that more notice wasn't taken back then. There are lists of foods, how to induce weightloss if you are resistant to burning fat - all you need really. What going low carb will do is lower blood glucose levels, which is why I stick to it. Not perfectly, not now as after 6 months I saw normal results for BG and Hba1c, but I could never eat many carbs and maintain my weight, and those carbs which stopped weightloss are those which I now know raise my BG and keep it high.

frankbegbie · Sep 15, 2017

ketopaul said:
And that's working for you - in terms of weight loss?

Not sure as I don't weigh myself.
But I have all the symptoms of being in or starting to go into Ketosis.

Only been fully on the LCHF diet for just over 4 weeks, so it may take a few days longer.

Metabolism_Boss · Sep 27, 2017

I think that this might have arisen because once you cut out carbs you have a lot of calories to play with, and it can seem that you can eat what you like. I do note my calorie intake and because I am older and have a less active lifestyle than I would wish, I am currently eating about 1300 Kcal per day to lose about 1-1.5 lb a week. I am constantly scrabbling around for calories to meet this target and have to eat something like nuts (such a hardship!) to bump my intake up a bit.

bulkbiker · Sep 27, 2017

justbe said:
This is the problem. There are a few crazy groups around, telling people to just eat as much meat as they want, and they'll lose weight. They go by the slogan of zero-carbs, from what I've seen.

This is INSANE. No one can just eat as much as they feel like, and expect to reduce their weight. a) If you're overweight, then you most likely got to be the size you are by doing exactly that. b) To lose weight, you need to be consuming a few hundred less CALORIES per day than you need to sustain your weight. i.e., most people need around 2000 calories per day, so to lose weight, you shouldn't eat more than about 1650; 1700 tops. This depends on various factors like your height and exercise levels, though.

Point is: just three 8-ounce steaks per day will amount to that ENTIRE calorie intake; maybe a bit more. Add a couple of eggs and you're no longer losing weight, but maintaining it, maybe increasing it.

It's easy to overdo it. You HAVE to count calories if you want to lose weight. AND count calorie expenditure via exercise, body shape, etc.

I think you are misunderstanding the ketogenic diet.
It's not eat as much as you want .. its eat until you are satiated.
The whole point of minimising carb intake is to allow your body to signal when you've had enough to eat.
Sit yourself down in front of a block of butter and see how much you can eat without feeling sick.. that is satiety and how keto works. Calories are virtually irrelevant once fat adapted.

bulkbiker · Sep 28, 2017

justbe said:
A ketogenic diet is a diet that puts the body in a state of nutritional ketosis.

agree

justbe said:
That means a state that primarily uses ketones (i.e., fat) for fuel, rather than glucose.

agree

justbe said:
To do that, you need to change the RATIO of macros, so that about 70% of your calories are from fat, 20% from protein, and 5% from carbs.

Not really, almost everyone will be able to get into ketosis if they have fewer than 20g of carbs per day.. there is no percentage macro for carbs in a well formulated ketogenic diet and the ratio for protein is meant to be somewhere between 0.6 and 1.5g per kg of lean body weight then (whispering quietly) fat to satiety...

justbe said:
The carbs are optional, so you can distribute that 5% across the other two macros instead.

Agree no carbs are essential so none are as good as 20g although quite hard to achieve in the real world. I like cream in my coffee

justbe said:
However, no matter what, your calorie intake should be IDENTICAL to a normal healthy intake

What exactly would that be please?

justbe said:
unless you also need to lose or gain weight

ah...

justbe said:
in which case it should be less or more, respectively.

so you think that calories in calories out (CICO) is applicable to a ketogenic way of eating? I'm not sure I would agree that is too simplistic.

justbe said:
This is not open for debate. That's the definition.

It may be your definition but it isn't mine or most of the people who follow the ketogenicforums.com where i spend time when I'm not here.. you might like to try it the science is quite amazing..

justbe said:
Here's a tip: doctors use ketogenic diets for epilepsy, to treat electrical problems in the brain. Trust me: they're not relying on whether someone can eat a block of butter to cure an electrical storm.

Thanks for the tip but thats's not the reason I follow a ketogenic way of eating...

justbe said:
You've simply been misinformed

obviously...

justbe said:
I suggest you trust me, and research the diet some more. You'll learn a lot, which will help you a lot

I might just do that...

justbe said:
Or just ask your doctor.

My doctor would tell me I was about to die from ketoacidosis if he saw my ketone readings because i'm afraid he is ill informed about keto.. but no matter

justbe said:
Now, if you're on a low-carb diet, and it's working for you, that's fine.

Those pesky ketones that keep showing up on my meter can't be there then...

justbe said:
But if you're just eating as much as you like, you're probably not actually eating a ketogenic diet

I'm not eating as much as I like.. that was my starting position.. satiety isn't stuff yourself silly... it is eat until you are full.. I think you have misunderstood this point.

justbe said:
But if you're just eating as much as you like, you're probably not actually eating a ketogenic diet -- at least, not all the time. If you are, it's by luck, not by knowing what you're doing.

Wow thanks for pointing that out to me.. what a lucky soul I must be..

By the way there's no need to shout as you did at the start of your piece..

Thanks for your kind words and assistance and for pointing out my ignorance...much appreciated.

Zilsniggy · Sep 29, 2017

ketopaul said:
Hi there

I did a trial in keto a couple of months ago, but I wasn't very successful.

I didn't calculate any macros, I simply kicked out anything grain based, sugars and fruit. I mainly ate eggs, meat and fish, and some veggies (but not a lot). I did drink alcohol in the weekend while I was on the diet. I also didn't count calories.

I did loose a couple of pounds, but quickly plateaued. My weight loss wasn't anything even close to what other people report they are loosing.

Any tips?

P.S. I don't have diabetes, just trying to loose weight

Zilsniggy · Sep 29, 2017

Hi ketopaul. I doubt if you have been anywhere near ketosis. This is a diet which you can't dip in and out of. You have to make the commitment to reduce carbs to around 20-30g a day, no alcohol, bread(not even a sandwich). It takes a bit of planning. If you show commitment to it, and do it properly, then you will lose weight. I suspect your alcohol at the weekend has sabotaged your weight loss. Takes a while to get into proper ketosis, but once there it is also easy to get out of by eating or drinking a few carbs more. If you're serious about it, there is plenty of reading available. First of all: learn exactly what carbs are. Then read around the subject , there is a certain commitment required for it to work. I and the rest of the supporters of the keto way of eating here are in it to normalise our blood sugars and reduce diabetic complications such as blindness or amputations. The threat of either of these tends to concentrate and strengthen our resolve to stick to this way of life. The weight loss is an incidental and welcome side effect, which is also beneficial to most insulin resistant diabetics. If you can't ditch carbs, then this diet isn't for you. Sorry if I speak plainly. You need to decide whether it's worth it to lose weight and gain health.

AloeSvea · Oct 2, 2017

justbe said:
This is the problem. There are a few crazy groups around, telling people to just eat as much meat as they want, and they'll lose weight. They go by the slogan of zero-carbs, from what I've seen.

This is INSANE. No one can just eat as much as they feel like, and expect to reduce their weight.
It's easy to overdo it. You HAVE to count calories if you want to lose weight. AND count calorie expenditure via exercise, body shape, etc.

Hi justbe. This may be the wrong place, indeed, to talk of insanity and craziness for going low carb by any way of eating (WOE). Many local pubs would be a good place , in my experience. But even my groovy local pub would never call my WOE experiences insane or crazy. At least not to my face! .

But a way of eating can absolutely include zero carbing (nutrition via animal products only), as well as other ways of low-carbing. And you absolutely can be doing a new way of eating without calorie counting. Once your appetite hormones are balanced, one assumes (without excess carbs, additives and chemicals, trans and bad fats etc) it is the experience of many long-term low-carbers one does not 'overeat'. How to eat huge amounts of meat? Olives? Cheese? Even more-ish nuts. And I say this as a person with what used to be called a hearty appetite - now I would just say I love to eat and love food. But my calorie count, when counted, was much lower than I thought it would be, as someone who loves to eat good food. And has been as long as I have been low-carbing.

But we have different genes, body types, cultural and food backgrounds. What works for one, does not work for everyone. (A wonderful common theme on this forum.) I was reading today about individuals and ethnic groups who have an extra vegetable-eating allele (don't ask me to describe what that is!), that makes getting nutrition from vegetables, and from all-plant-matter diets much better and easier for them - which is the point. Some people respond very well to High Carb (from plant matter) Low-Fat diets, as diabetics even, apparently. Some people do great with relatively high levels of animal products (as in Paleo with half plate dead critters). I include weight loss and weight maintenance here in 'doing well', as well as better blood glucose and insulin regulation.

And some people don't do well counting calories. (For the rest of my life? That many numbers? Having to check on macronutrient percentages always? Goodness gracious me! No!)

The only way to tell what works for you is to experiment with different WOEs, until you find one, or more, that really works for you. BG-regulation wise. Weight-loss wise (if needed) and weight-maintenance wise.

Red59 · Oct 17, 2017

justbe said:
NO. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT "eat until you are satiated." That has NOTHING to do with a ketogenic diet.

A ketogenic diet is a diet that puts the body in a state of nutritional ketosis. That means a state that primarily uses ketones (i.e., fat) for fuel, rather than glucose. To do that, you need to change the RATIO of macros, so that about 70% of your calories are from fat, 20% from protein, and 5% from carbs. The carbs are optional, so you can distribute that 5% across the other two macros instead. However, no matter what, your calorie intake should be IDENTICAL to a normal healthy intake, unless you also need to lose or gain weight, in which case it should be less or more, respectively.

This is not open for debate. That's the definition.

Here's a tip: doctors use ketogenic diets for epilepsy, to treat electrical problems in the brain. Trust me: they're not relying on whether someone can eat a block of butter to cure an electrical storm.

You've simply been misinformed. I suggest you trust me, and research the diet some more. You'll learn a lot, which will help you a lot. Try reading "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living", or the stuff at http://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience. Ask questions there too, if you won't take my word for it. Or just ask your doctor.

Now, if you're on a low-carb diet, and it's working for you, that's fine. But if you're just eating as much as you like, you're probably not actually eating a ketogenic diet -- at least, not all the time. If you are, it's by luck, not by knowing what you're doing.

Good answer!

Jason_Avoneg · Oct 18, 2017

justbe said:
NO. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT "eat until you are satiated." That has NOTHING to do with a ketogenic diet.

A ketogenic diet is a diet that puts the body in a state of nutritional ketosis. That means a state that primarily uses ketones (i.e., fat) for fuel, rather than glucose. To do that, you need to change the RATIO of macros, so that about 70% of your calories are from fat, 20% from protein, and 5% from carbs. The carbs are optional, so you can distribute that 5% across the other two macros instead. However, no matter what, your calorie intake should be IDENTICAL to a normal healthy intake, unless you also need to lose or gain weight, in which case it should be less or more, respectively.

This is not open for debate. That's the definition.

Here's a tip: doctors use ketogenic diets for epilepsy, to treat electrical problems in the brain. Trust me: they're not relying on whether someone can eat a block of butter to cure an electrical storm.

You've simply been misinformed. I suggest you trust me, and research the diet some more. You'll learn a lot, which will help you a lot. Try reading "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living", or the stuff at http://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience. Ask questions there too, if you won't take my word for it. Or just ask your doctor.

Now, if you're on a low-carb diet, and it's working for you, that's fine. But if you're just eating as much as you like, you're probably not actually eating a ketogenic diet -- at least, not all the time. If you are, it's by luck, not by knowing what you're doing.

In my opinion, this guy is on point.

Calorific value is everything, it's simple calories in -v- out.

Op, I suggest you listen to justbe as he knows what he is on about.

I went from almost 14 stones to 10 in almost a year, though that wasn't keto alone, it included weight lifting, martial arts and lots of cardio. I was looking really good physically...

Stumbled on this thread as I just started another Keto diet to get back into shape...

Keto - no weight loss

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