1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2018 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Arrived here after watching The Truth About Carbs? Join the Low Carb Program for meal plans & 10 weeks of simple steps into your new lifestyle.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Keto - no weight loss

Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by ketopaul, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    178
    To be keto and go along with the 'a calorie is just a calorie' and 'simple calories in versus calories out' is a new one on me! But each of us to their own, for sure. (The key science behind keto and low-carbing is that the body deals with different macronutrients - carbs, protein, and fats - differently. ie a calorie is not just a calorie, but is earmarked in the body differently. A topic close to diabetics' hearts who are treating with diet only!)

    I, on the other hand read Gary Taubes - any of his books, and was most convinced. Ditto the 'bibles' of low carb literature - Volek and Phinney's The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, and ....Performance.

    Now there are Jimmy Moore's very accessible contributions, Keto Clarity etc. He is a good one to read as he has very real weight gain, loss and maintenance issues, so I would trust him as a keto writer who knows and he is a good communicator.

    And there is nought a low-carber on this internet planet who is not a fan of The Diet Doctor. This 'a calorie is not just a calorie' theory is all over the net, and in the library, with regards to LCHF and ketogenic diets.

    I live this theory daily when I eat fried in coconut oil or butter pork slices instead of chocolate chip cookies now, to stay alive as long as I can with impaired blood glucose regulation. Thank goodness the pork slices and fried fat pieces taste divine and are way more satiating than the chocolate chip cookies ever were.

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

    Messages:
    5,284
    Likes Received:
    3,360
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I can eat one piece of bread a day and gain 20#’s a week. Or eat a rib eye a day and lose weight. Not anywhere near a believer in calories in calories out theory.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. letstalk1

    letstalk1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Alcohol = sugar , this is why you didnt lose much.
     
  4. Jared1

    Jared1 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Firstly I'd like to say thanks for every one who posted to this - it was quite funny reading the back and fourth "banter" and is the only post I've read go to woo in a while!

    My 2 cents is I stumbled on to a keto diet by lowering my carbs- originally I lowered calories for weight loss and the low carbs part (at the same time) was too keep bg down. By fluke ended up in ketosis from a pretty hard core less than 20g carb a day - I've since relaxed it a bit some days maybe getting up to 40g a day but not often. For me - if I eat to much or more important not enough with this formula I stop losing weight but I still have to be in some sort of a calorie deficit to lose weight - just to throw another spanner in there I find going hard out exercise dosint do any thing - I have to eat more to compensate so it works out the same as if done moderate exercise. I do feel I lose weight much faster with combo of calorie deficit and keto than would in past tries of calorie deficit only.

    Is fair to say it took some time to see patterns and I think every one is different - for me my best weight loss tool is recording - monitoring patterns and finding what works and rolling with that but it takes time. Once got it down you just kind of know what can get away with.

    So my best advice is to read what every one says but take it with grain of salt and just experiment to find what works best for you. I was 102kg in december and now 85 so I don't really care what the experts say I just stick with what works for me
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Hi ya @Jared1 :).

    I would not say take nutritional science and physiology facts with a grain of salt! ;):). But certainly check it out on yourself by experimenting for sure! :). To see what works best for you, is great advice for sure.

    Yeah, many folks physical activity affects weight loss not a lot or very very little. Some people it does. (I am one of those.) Also the metabolic rate thingie differs between people.

    But the general principles are a kind of 'human species' thing. And it seems to be pretty standard for human folks that going calorie deficit makes the body hang on to the excess fat storage just that little bit harder afterwards. This is where the whole Fung/Fasting vs Taylor/low calorie/portion control thing comes in. And why mostly largely traditional dieting hasn't worked for folks.

    And yeah - there are folks who CAN basically "portion control" for the rest of their lives without suffering. (They can be read on this forum.) Or, they only need to do it for a period of time to right their metabolisms, and keep being diabetes free on a normalish diet or moderate carb only. (I am not one of those.) And yeah you don't often know what kind of metabolism you have until you experiment, but there are certainly hints in your body type, and past pre diagnosis life. And the science just explains the whys and wherefores of it all.

    But you are quite right - you don't have to know the whys and wherefores for it to work for you just as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Jared1

    Jared1 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hay @AloeSvea hope all is well .

    Your right prob should leave salt off science lol - is hard though even in this conversation there are "facts" stated and then there are other contradictory "facts" talking about the same thing - I don't even disagree that they might be true they just might not be true for even one.

    Never been a person to even care what was in what I ate and still been pretty green about the subject still I don't claim to be any kind of a expert.

    BUT- been new and being advised from all corners of fact and opinion I and I imagine many in that situation it becomes quite over whelming-and from my now experience - for myself anyway it wouldint matter what or how much I read the "facts" of what works for a individual can really only be obtained by loosely guideded experemntation (I mean if I did what my doctor suggested (not low carb) I doubt I would be in such a good place as am now) so any advise I could give can only be based off that - I do find as one progresses on their journey the "Marcos" of science seem to be more helpful to tweak something that have already found to be working before that is just confusing, over whelming and makes things seem to hard because you just don't know what avenue of advice to take.

    Fully for people doing good exercise - ha ha I thought calories in VS out to lose weight faster so that's why I did - after nearly killing myself from exhaustion (and crazy huge calorie deficit) a few times I was sadly disappointed though - exercise should be done for over all well being and health benefits - if just for weight loss that might not be a right reason- over time I think would help by more muscle mass etc but in short term is prob not going to make a big difference in weight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Unfortunately I have reached the age of 66 and have yet to prove to myself that calorie controlled diets are a way to lower weight.
    On a low calorie diet I just collapse, turn very pale and can hardly function.
    On a low carb diet I lose weight. I can eat lots of calorific foods, fatty meat and that sort of thing, but they just vanish away and I dance around feeling great.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. caius2x8

    caius2x8 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Pint of beer or cider has roughly 1.5 portions.
    Dry wine -red/ white - none.
    Cocktails 3-5 portions (table spoon sugar without or with 200 mls fruit juice)
     
  9. caius2x8

    caius2x8 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Basically get those greens and meat up to 50:50 on every plate. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    178
    50/50 meat/fish and veg on every plate is basically paleo - a great way of eating for sure, but not keto. Right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,092
    Likes Received:
    10,485
    Trophy Points:
    198
    As far as I'm concerned a ketogenic diet is not a magic weight loss diet - it can be beneficial for various reasons as already pointed out.

    Too many carbs in either solid or liquid form :D are going to keep your body relying on them for energy, and in this situation your body can't/won't access any stored fat. Cutting carbs right down forces your body chemistry (back) into being able to use fat as well, which is essentially what you need to do. You can then do a balancing act adjusting your fat consumption to lose, maintain or even gain weight. (Possibly an idiots guide, but basically what goes on...)

    I've actually lost a lot of weight while eating this way, but my primary aim has been to reduce and control my glucose levels, and I can do this and keep my weight stable. The main point is that I'm now using fat as well as the reduced carbs in my diet for fuel. If I want to lose weight, I'll reduce the amount of fat I eat until I'm needing to burn stored as well as any dietary fat.

    Robbity
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. joany1955

    joany1955 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    23
    I'm confused ,I'm cutting down carbs and also watching my calories , but I don't seem to be loosing much weight , I was diagnosed a month ago but I couldn't take metamorfin so trying diet only first , any help would be appreciated ..
     
  13. Alison Campbell

    Alison Campbell Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Hi at @joany1955, it would be a good idea if you made a post in the newly diagnosed section of the forum so your post can get attention from other type 2's
     
  14. BundyBob

    BundyBob Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hi Joaney
    I have been on keto for 3 months. I am vvvvvlchf diet with max of 9g of carbs per day. I count calories for fun. I have lost 16 kgs since I started and after 2 months I have platoed to 1 kg on average per week. I have struggled to eat more than 500 calories per day but have more energy than I had on my low gi veggie diet. Good luck with your diet and keep up with it
     
  15. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Bundybob - At 500 calories, you are on a starvation diet. How long do you intend to carry on this way?
     
  16. BundyBob

    BundyBob Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    23
    I have been on it for 3 months snd will stay that way until I get my bg levels between 5 and 6.
    As far as starvation, i eat more now than i did when not on a diet anf was trying to stay under 2000 cals. I am no way starving or i would be loosing weight a lot faster than 1 kg a week
     
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    8,186
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    Trophy Points:
    198
    You're above statement that you are now eating more seems a bit at odds with the 500 against 2,000 calories.
    What on earth are you eating? Watch out for metabolic slowdown due to insufficient food as this could well explain the slowing of your weight loss. Your body could be hanging on to every gram.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. BundyBob

    BundyBob Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    23
    1 egg and 1 strip of short cut bacon for breaky. 300 gms tuna on lettuce for lunch. Red/white meat with colliflour or broccoli peas amd zucchini or zuccini spirals with fish or mince meat for dinner. 3 cups of tea through the day. 8 gms of dehydrated zuccini fir afternooon snack
    Desert is zero carb zero sugar zero cal jelly 130 mls.
    Avetage 2 1/2 lts water

    I used to have 2 cups of coffee 4 x toast and vegimite for breaky
    1 sandwich multiple fillings in summer and 1 pie or sausage roll for lunch.
    Dinner was 1 bowle of rice or pasta with multiple fillings.
    Desert was ice cream and fruit.
    Heavy spattering of cheese throught the day. Sometimes a midnight of cheese on bread.
    Monday was fish and chip night.
    5 lts minimum of water
    And still Hungry.
     
  19. Dijon

    Dijon Type 2 · Newbie

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    I've been on a Keto LCHF diet at the recommendation of my cardio surgeon for ten days now. I have lost 2.5 kg in that time and my blood glucose levels have never been so stable. Overnight fasting between 4.5 and 5; 90min PP between 5 and 6, and at the summit of Helvellyn (650m ascent) 5.1. Urine ketones currently at 1.5 mmol/l. Looks like keto + exercise really work for me. Slajerova's cookbook has plenty of variety and ideas for other recipes.
     
  20. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    Trophy Points:
    198
    @BundyBob - As @bulkbiker suggests you are skirting with your metabolism slowing down. For some, when this hapens it doesn't recover, meaning longer term they are unable to eat much and their ability to rereduce weight is significantly impacted too.

    There are several people on this site, mainly, but not all women, for whom this has become an issue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook