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Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by ketopaul, Sep 14, 2017.
In my opinion, this guy is on point.
Calorific value is everything, it's simple calories in -v- out.
Op, I suggest you listen to justbe as he knows what he is on about.
I went from almost 14 stones to 10 in almost a year, though that wasn't keto alone, it included weight lifting, martial arts and lots of cardio. I was looking really good physically...
Stumbled on this thread as I just started another Keto diet to get back into shape...
To be keto and go along with the 'a calorie is just a calorie' and 'simple calories in versus calories out' is a new one on me! But each of us to their own, for sure. (The key science behind keto and low-carbing is that the body deals with different macronutrients - carbs, protein, and fats - differently. ie a calorie is not just a calorie, but is earmarked in the body differently. A topic close to diabetics' hearts who are treating with diet only!)
I, on the other hand read Gary Taubes - any of his books, and was most convinced. Ditto the 'bibles' of low carb literature - Volek and Phinney's The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, and ....Performance.
Now there are Jimmy Moore's very accessible contributions, Keto Clarity etc. He is a good one to read as he has very real weight gain, loss and maintenance issues, so I would trust him as a keto writer who knows and he is a good communicator.
And there is nought a low-carber on this internet planet who is not a fan of The Diet Doctor. This 'a calorie is not just a calorie' theory is all over the net, and in the library, with regards to LCHF and ketogenic diets.
I live this theory daily when I eat fried in coconut oil or butter pork slices instead of chocolate chip cookies now, to stay alive as long as I can with impaired blood glucose regulation. Thank goodness the pork slices and fried fat pieces taste divine and are way more satiating than the chocolate chip cookies ever were.
I can eat one piece of bread a day and gain 20#’s a week. Or eat a rib eye a day and lose weight. Not anywhere near a believer in calories in calories out theory.
Alcohol = sugar , this is why you didnt lose much.
Firstly I'd like to say thanks for every one who posted to this - it was quite funny reading the back and fourth "banter" and is the only post I've read go to woo in a while!
My 2 cents is I stumbled on to a keto diet by lowering my carbs- originally I lowered calories for weight loss and the low carbs part (at the same time) was too keep bg down. By fluke ended up in ketosis from a pretty hard core less than 20g carb a day - I've since relaxed it a bit some days maybe getting up to 40g a day but not often. For me - if I eat to much or more important not enough with this formula I stop losing weight but I still have to be in some sort of a calorie deficit to lose weight - just to throw another spanner in there I find going hard out exercise dosint do any thing - I have to eat more to compensate so it works out the same as if done moderate exercise. I do feel I lose weight much faster with combo of calorie deficit and keto than would in past tries of calorie deficit only.
Is fair to say it took some time to see patterns and I think every one is different - for me my best weight loss tool is recording - monitoring patterns and finding what works and rolling with that but it takes time. Once got it down you just kind of know what can get away with.
So my best advice is to read what every one says but take it with grain of salt and just experiment to find what works best for you. I was 102kg in december and now 85 so I don't really care what the experts say I just stick with what works for me
Hi ya @Jared1 .
I would not say take nutritional science and physiology facts with a grain of salt! . But certainly check it out on yourself by experimenting for sure! . To see what works best for you, is great advice for sure.
Yeah, many folks physical activity affects weight loss not a lot or very very little. Some people it does. (I am one of those.) Also the metabolic rate thingie differs between people.
But the general principles are a kind of 'human species' thing. And it seems to be pretty standard for human folks that going calorie deficit makes the body hang on to the excess fat storage just that little bit harder afterwards. This is where the whole Fung/Fasting vs Taylor/low calorie/portion control thing comes in. And why mostly largely traditional dieting hasn't worked for folks.
And yeah - there are folks who CAN basically "portion control" for the rest of their lives without suffering. (They can be read on this forum.) Or, they only need to do it for a period of time to right their metabolisms, and keep being diabetes free on a normalish diet or moderate carb only. (I am not one of those.) And yeah you don't often know what kind of metabolism you have until you experiment, but there are certainly hints in your body type, and past pre diagnosis life. And the science just explains the whys and wherefores of it all.
But you are quite right - you don't have to know the whys and wherefores for it to work for you just as well.
Hay @AloeSvea hope all is well .
Your right prob should leave salt off science lol - is hard though even in this conversation there are "facts" stated and then there are other contradictory "facts" talking about the same thing - I don't even disagree that they might be true they just might not be true for even one.
Never been a person to even care what was in what I ate and still been pretty green about the subject still I don't claim to be any kind of a expert.
BUT- been new and being advised from all corners of fact and opinion I and I imagine many in that situation it becomes quite over whelming-and from my now experience - for myself anyway it wouldint matter what or how much I read the "facts" of what works for a individual can really only be obtained by loosely guideded experemntation (I mean if I did what my doctor suggested (not low carb) I doubt I would be in such a good place as am now) so any advise I could give can only be based off that - I do find as one progresses on their journey the "Marcos" of science seem to be more helpful to tweak something that have already found to be working before that is just confusing, over whelming and makes things seem to hard because you just don't know what avenue of advice to take.
Fully for people doing good exercise - ha ha I thought calories in VS out to lose weight faster so that's why I did - after nearly killing myself from exhaustion (and crazy huge calorie deficit) a few times I was sadly disappointed though - exercise should be done for over all well being and health benefits - if just for weight loss that might not be a right reason- over time I think would help by more muscle mass etc but in short term is prob not going to make a big difference in weight.
Unfortunately I have reached the age of 66 and have yet to prove to myself that calorie controlled diets are a way to lower weight.
On a low calorie diet I just collapse, turn very pale and can hardly function.
On a low carb diet I lose weight. I can eat lots of calorific foods, fatty meat and that sort of thing, but they just vanish away and I dance around feeling great.
Pint of beer or cider has roughly 1.5 portions.
Dry wine -red/ white - none.
Cocktails 3-5 portions (table spoon sugar without or with 200 mls fruit juice)
Basically get those greens and meat up to 50:50 on every plate.
50/50 meat/fish and veg on every plate is basically paleo - a great way of eating for sure, but not keto. Right?
As far as I'm concerned a ketogenic diet is not a magic weight loss diet - it can be beneficial for various reasons as already pointed out.
Too many carbs in either solid or liquid form are going to keep your body relying on them for energy, and in this situation your body can't/won't access any stored fat. Cutting carbs right down forces your body chemistry (back) into being able to use fat as well, which is essentially what you need to do. You can then do a balancing act adjusting your fat consumption to lose, maintain or even gain weight. (Possibly an idiots guide, but basically what goes on...)
I've actually lost a lot of weight while eating this way, but my primary aim has been to reduce and control my glucose levels, and I can do this and keep my weight stable. The main point is that I'm now using fat as well as the reduced carbs in my diet for fuel. If I want to lose weight, I'll reduce the amount of fat I eat until I'm needing to burn stored as well as any dietary fat.