HI everyone it ages since I posted o here as my son has been fine but off we go again he is runnunng with high bms a lot of the time he knows what he is doing because he is taking insulin with food but not snacks and not drinks he isnsists on drinking full sugar drinks coke, doctor pepper lucasade sport etc which puts his bmsreally high but he says he isnt going to take insulin everytime he has a drink! Last night he drank 2x2litre bottles of doctor pepper pop I have no idea how much insulin he had but he was vomitting during the night and said he had a bad headache he wouldnt test for ketones but I presume they would be +++ if his bms have come down to 12 today as he has been having insulin would his ketones go back to normal ? I am going to attempt to get him to go to hospital tomorrow with his older sister as he would not go today with me.
Ketoacidosis
- Thread starter vickiec
- Start Date
Sorry to hear you have hit a rough patch. How old is your son?
My only question is who buys the softdrinks etc...? Drinking that much softdrink isn't normal for the non-diabetic. I buy 1 bottle of 1.25L softdrink per week that my 15 yr old son and I will drink and that is all. We only buy 1L of fruit juice per week also. Plain water is far better. Another solution might be to be a sneaky parent and keep the bottles of regular softdrink and fill them with the sugar free variety or half and half (only a good idea if you are sure he isn't going to actually start injecting all of a sudden). I must admit that they are so good these days it is hard to tell the difference.
You should be able to avoid DKA by getting his levels down but that is no guarantee. There does come a point that even if you get the levels down you can't stop the process without fluids via a drip. As with all things diabetes this could be a different level for each child.
Good luck getting past the diabetes rebellion. Hopefully he'll realise it is much better to work with his diabetes than against it.
My only question is who buys the softdrinks etc...? Drinking that much softdrink isn't normal for the non-diabetic. I buy 1 bottle of 1.25L softdrink per week that my 15 yr old son and I will drink and that is all. We only buy 1L of fruit juice per week also. Plain water is far better. Another solution might be to be a sneaky parent and keep the bottles of regular softdrink and fill them with the sugar free variety or half and half (only a good idea if you are sure he isn't going to actually start injecting all of a sudden). I must admit that they are so good these days it is hard to tell the difference.
You should be able to avoid DKA by getting his levels down but that is no guarantee. There does come a point that even if you get the levels down you can't stop the process without fluids via a drip. As with all things diabetes this could be a different level for each child.
Good luck getting past the diabetes rebellion. Hopefully he'll realise it is much better to work with his diabetes than against it.
yes,
know the story - still there with son (now age 13)
he sneaks it, buys it, etc full sugar hot choc powder (cheap for him in pound shop, energy drinks with full sugar, sweets, lollies etc)
same issue, denies hes been sick, even though evidence in toilet when he hasnt cleaned it during the night...
seems to listen to dsn or doctor at the time, but no behaviour change.
No advice unfortunately for you, but total empathy as i am going through same thing...
They act like an ostrich with its head in the sand.
know the story - still there with son (now age 13)
he sneaks it, buys it, etc full sugar hot choc powder (cheap for him in pound shop, energy drinks with full sugar, sweets, lollies etc)
same issue, denies hes been sick, even though evidence in toilet when he hasnt cleaned it during the night...
seems to listen to dsn or doctor at the time, but no behaviour change.
No advice unfortunately for you, but total empathy as i am going through same thing...
They act like an ostrich with its head in the sand.
Hi: Not your sons/daughters fault they are still act like normal kids. They are in denial and you need to treat that before you can start treating their diabetes. At some point, they will find friends with the same problem and share their feelings with them rather than with us, the parents. Been there with Ketoacidosis - full blown shabang, preacher an' all! So I understand what your kids are going through. It is also ot the fault of the parents for not being able to spot KA. The entire food and softdrinks companies need to take blame for all the stuff they keep throwing at children and making it impossible for them to say no. The foods industry and the softdrinks vendors should share the blame for children's bad eating diets.
Re: Ketoacidosis and kids
Me again. Sorry. I have read all the posts and what I read, I don't like. If you are looking for advice for your kids, then....Instead of policing and acting like parole wardens to your children that have just developed diabetes, or are in the throes of it, tell them you understand their need to eat sweets, chocolates, cakes and to consume soft drinks because it is what normal kids do, but they are not normal kids anymore. They now have a massive responsibility that has been heaped on them through no fault of their own, and are now burdened with a debilitating illness that is not only dire, but rotten to the core.
Their lives are their own, not yours. You will share their pain and their greif in the years to come. Tell them, they do not need to hide their sweets from you or to feel the need to vomit in secret. tell them that as parents they will support, care and comfort them when things are not going right, or when they need help. Tell them you will be their listening board, adviser and councellor if they need one, not a police officer or prison warden. These kids are vulnerable and they are hurting inside. They don't understand why them. Their bms, headaches, vomiting and other stuff is part and parcel of who they now are and will have to deal with it as they get older. Tell them in no uncertain terms, that if they continue to abuse the diabetes, it will attack back in the most terrible way possible later on. Teach them to gain control of who they are, and explain to them that it is no one's fault they are now T1's. All of you are suffering. Get them to check their bm's without being policed or warned, and teach them what high bms mean and how to deal with low one's too, sensibly. Explain to them what complications will arise later if they are not smart now.
Be a parent instead of a police officer or you will drive them deeper into despair.
Me again. Sorry. I have read all the posts and what I read, I don't like. If you are looking for advice for your kids, then....Instead of policing and acting like parole wardens to your children that have just developed diabetes, or are in the throes of it, tell them you understand their need to eat sweets, chocolates, cakes and to consume soft drinks because it is what normal kids do, but they are not normal kids anymore. They now have a massive responsibility that has been heaped on them through no fault of their own, and are now burdened with a debilitating illness that is not only dire, but rotten to the core.
Their lives are their own, not yours. You will share their pain and their greif in the years to come. Tell them, they do not need to hide their sweets from you or to feel the need to vomit in secret. tell them that as parents they will support, care and comfort them when things are not going right, or when they need help. Tell them you will be their listening board, adviser and councellor if they need one, not a police officer or prison warden. These kids are vulnerable and they are hurting inside. They don't understand why them. Their bms, headaches, vomiting and other stuff is part and parcel of who they now are and will have to deal with it as they get older. Tell them in no uncertain terms, that if they continue to abuse the diabetes, it will attack back in the most terrible way possible later on. Teach them to gain control of who they are, and explain to them that it is no one's fault they are now T1's. All of you are suffering. Get them to check their bm's without being policed or warned, and teach them what high bms mean and how to deal with low one's too, sensibly. Explain to them what complications will arise later if they are not smart now.
Be a parent instead of a police officer or you will drive them deeper into despair.
Re: Ketoacidosis and kids
Oh if only life were that simple...
Dont you think we havent done that??
Our family have, and we continue to try and be supportive and non judgemental, but it really is like banging your head against a brick wall when you see your child ignore the diabetes, and run into problems.
They may have a few days of doing things the way they should occasionally.
Not everyone is the same, and my kids for sure, resent the fact they have diabetes, and try to ignore it and harm themselves by ignoring it knowingly.
They know the facts and the consequences, and know that they can have us as parents support and advise, they have the diabetes nurse mobile number if they want to text her or ring her without involving us, and we are there for them, but at the end of the day you cant stand over them 24/7 and make them look after themselves. We do not act like the diabetes police either.
Your opinion comes across (rightly or wrongly) to me as:
- support them in all ways
- make sure they have the knowledge of what to do now to look after themselves on a daily basis, and what consequences may arise if they do not
- dont come down on them in a disciplinary way if they mess up
Yup - we do all that
Yup - we still have serious problems
lostsoul said:
Oh if only life were that simple...
Dont you think we havent done that??
Our family have, and we continue to try and be supportive and non judgemental, but it really is like banging your head against a brick wall when you see your child ignore the diabetes, and run into problems.
They may have a few days of doing things the way they should occasionally.
Not everyone is the same, and my kids for sure, resent the fact they have diabetes, and try to ignore it and harm themselves by ignoring it knowingly.
They know the facts and the consequences, and know that they can have us as parents support and advise, they have the diabetes nurse mobile number if they want to text her or ring her without involving us, and we are there for them, but at the end of the day you cant stand over them 24/7 and make them look after themselves. We do not act like the diabetes police either.
Your opinion comes across (rightly or wrongly) to me as:
- support them in all ways
- make sure they have the knowledge of what to do now to look after themselves on a daily basis, and what consequences may arise if they do not
- dont come down on them in a disciplinary way if they mess up
Yup - we do all that
Yup - we still have serious problems
My sympathies with your dilema, I had a teenager with epilepsy, and at that age the desire to be 'normal' is so strong that they are capable of ignoring what they don't like.
She stopped taking her medication without our knowledge, pretending to take it but spitting it out afterwards. There was nothing we could do either, we had to wait for her to accept it herself, but it was a hellish time. You care for them and want the best for them and is i hard to watch them messing up by denying the problem.
xxxxx
She stopped taking her medication without our knowledge, pretending to take it but spitting it out afterwards. There was nothing we could do either, we had to wait for her to accept it herself, but it was a hellish time. You care for them and want the best for them and is i hard to watch them messing up by denying the problem.
xxxxx
I have ended up with DKA four times in the last year. The doc doesn't know why, had no infection, have good control of my diabetes and Im not newly diagnosed. I'm worried about this cos at times my ketones go up and I can get them down but I need to know why this is happening! Any ideas please?
Can't help you Whelo but you are not alone. There are other people out there with the same problem as you and not really any explanation. Do you just drink lots of water to get rid of the ketones?
whelo said:
Some information about DKA (Diabetic Ketoacidosis). Have a read and see if you can educate your Doc........
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/fac ... idosis.htm
You can't educate your child - at 13 they WILL NOT LISTEN. Particularly not to parents & if they are adamant that they are in denial, neither will they listen to hospital staff until they are seriously ill.
My son rebelled seriously at 13 ( 8 hospital admissions in 2 years) & nearly all of them, I made matters worse by trying to control his diet & insulin as recomended by the medical team at the time. READ the NICE guidelines on Teanage diabetes http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/1 ... /29392.pdf - there NOTHING about parents of teens controlling them or even supporting them with diet etc. All it says is build self esteme & educate them so that they have enough self confidence to take control of their own doses & diet.
This is what we are now doing & after 2 years of hell trying to follow hospital advice to control him, we gave up, backed off massively, stopped checking meter readings & praised him for every good moment we saw ( very few for the first month or so - but now aged 16 nearly continually perfect )
You DO as a parent have to try to hide how worried you are about getting it wrong as that is why he will be hiding the being sick & over eating. Any signs that you are trying to take away independance will just cause rebellion just because you are a parent and signs that you might tell him off will make him hide it more.
If you are worried about DKA, Check ketone levels from the urine on the floor in the bathroom or toilet side - boys who are there every 30 minutes are bound to splash some ( sneeky but less visible to them as checking up on them, & just as accurate if taken within an hour or two I have found). It takes ketones off the scale to give DKA & with my son at least 5-6 hours of vomiting before he becomes seriously ill. Telling his mates how seriously ill he was after DKA, really worked well, as peer pressure to stay healthy is far more effective than parents or hospital pressure & makes them realise they have friends who care for them too despite the diabetes ( good for self esteem). It is only when they realise HOW ILL they became, that they will try to stop it happening again.
Not letting him know you are worried will remove many arguements, but hard to do - you will have to pretend not to be worried at what are clearly high BMs, & leave him to deal with it himself - it reazlly is the best way to learn. Do not order teanagers about "don't eat that/DO your insulin NOW" Try phrases like " you haven't forgotten your insulin have you?" which gives them the last say in there actions - leaving a window of oportunity for him to adjust it without admitting a mistake. Excessive drinking & ketones - only worry if they don't start falling within 12 hours. If they are very high +++, offer loads of drinks & sympathy about possible underlying infection - NO ACCUSATIONS that they might have made a mistake. If the ketones start falling, your tean will be ok at home and you don't need a hospital admission, which can lead to even more problems & feelings of "WHY ME / I'm different", & boost their self esteme that "They are in control of their own body and CAN solve the problem without help" ( Essential feeling for independant 13-14-15 year olds). But if they DO have high ketones, hang around in case you are needed. Invent another excuse why you need to stay at home with them ( don't tell them you are worried - something like waiting in for a delvery makes them feel less concerned about telling you the truth if they get really ill).
THEY CAN GET VERY VERY ILL - if you are sure they are getting WORSE and they don't want to go to hospital, call a GP home visit & get a Dr to persuade them this time they have taken it too far.
(CAlling an ambulance, who will call the police to admit them in handcuffs DOES NOT WORK as it makes hospital even more threatening next time).
Good luck - My sympathy goes out to you - I had the same for over 2 years - from 13 to 15, but by 16 he is finally taking a more sensible attitude and not ALL of his life is a fight against diabetes and authority. Think how he feels about your actions in EVERYTHING you do & he will grow in confidence & take on more responsibility. Bad days will still happen, but it will not be "What did you do wrong" rather "how do we get out of this mess as calmly as possible" He will appreciate you for it far more than if you just attempt to control his life and fail. Failing on this one may mean far worse & he gets reallly ill & is too scared to ask for help from anyone...
Crushersmum
My son rebelled seriously at 13 ( 8 hospital admissions in 2 years) & nearly all of them, I made matters worse by trying to control his diet & insulin as recomended by the medical team at the time. READ the NICE guidelines on Teanage diabetes http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/1 ... /29392.pdf - there NOTHING about parents of teens controlling them or even supporting them with diet etc. All it says is build self esteme & educate them so that they have enough self confidence to take control of their own doses & diet.
This is what we are now doing & after 2 years of hell trying to follow hospital advice to control him, we gave up, backed off massively, stopped checking meter readings & praised him for every good moment we saw ( very few for the first month or so - but now aged 16 nearly continually perfect
)You DO as a parent have to try to hide how worried you are about getting it wrong as that is why he will be hiding the being sick & over eating. Any signs that you are trying to take away independance will just cause rebellion just because you are a parent and signs that you might tell him off will make him hide it more.
If you are worried about DKA, Check ketone levels from the urine on the floor in the bathroom or toilet side - boys who are there every 30 minutes are bound to splash some ( sneeky but less visible to them as checking up on them, & just as accurate if taken within an hour or two I have found). It takes ketones off the scale to give DKA & with my son at least 5-6 hours of vomiting before he becomes seriously ill. Telling his mates how seriously ill he was after DKA, really worked well, as peer pressure to stay healthy is far more effective than parents or hospital pressure & makes them realise they have friends who care for them too despite the diabetes ( good for self esteem). It is only when they realise HOW ILL they became, that they will try to stop it happening again.
Not letting him know you are worried will remove many arguements, but hard to do - you will have to pretend not to be worried at what are clearly high BMs, & leave him to deal with it himself - it reazlly is the best way to learn. Do not order teanagers about "don't eat that/DO your insulin NOW" Try phrases like " you haven't forgotten your insulin have you?" which gives them the last say in there actions - leaving a window of oportunity for him to adjust it without admitting a mistake. Excessive drinking & ketones - only worry if they don't start falling within 12 hours. If they are very high +++, offer loads of drinks & sympathy about possible underlying infection - NO ACCUSATIONS that they might have made a mistake. If the ketones start falling, your tean will be ok at home and you don't need a hospital admission, which can lead to even more problems & feelings of "WHY ME / I'm different", & boost their self esteme that "They are in control of their own body and CAN solve the problem without help" ( Essential feeling for independant 13-14-15 year olds). But if they DO have high ketones, hang around in case you are needed. Invent another excuse why you need to stay at home with them ( don't tell them you are worried - something like waiting in for a delvery makes them feel less concerned about telling you the truth if they get really ill).
THEY CAN GET VERY VERY ILL - if you are sure they are getting WORSE and they don't want to go to hospital, call a GP home visit & get a Dr to persuade them this time they have taken it too far.
(CAlling an ambulance, who will call the police to admit them in handcuffs DOES NOT WORK as it makes hospital even more threatening next time).
Good luck - My sympathy goes out to you - I had the same for over 2 years - from 13 to 15, but by 16 he is finally taking a more sensible attitude and not ALL of his life is a fight against diabetes and authority. Think how he feels about your actions in EVERYTHING you do & he will grow in confidence & take on more responsibility. Bad days will still happen, but it will not be "What did you do wrong" rather "how do we get out of this mess as calmly as possible" He will appreciate you for it far more than if you just attempt to control his life and fail. Failing on this one may mean far worse & he gets reallly ill & is too scared to ask for help from anyone...
Crushersmum
I have never been in this position but I do know parents feels enough guilt, don't let anyone else judge you and try and not judge yourself too harshly either. Teenagers at some point in their existence will turn into self willed, arrogant, insecure,needy,contrary,self righteous little monsters ( I know we still love 'em but blimey guv!). If they have a serious problem on top of all that, it is of course a hundred times harder. My teenage son went through a period of depression for no earthly reason that we could discern and became a little self destructive into the bargain. The one thing I learnt was that he HAD to deal with a lot of himself. I could support him and help him when he asked but a kind of self controlled dispassionate interest seemed to be the stance that helped him most. I told him the stuff that I really, really couldn't deal with and told him if he went there that I would have to come down hard on him but other than that he was free to make mistakes and rule his life...and it really, honestly got a little better and then a bit better some more until a year and a half down the line it's more often good than not. I hope you take some strength from my story and know that whatever you do, don't forget to look after yourself and the other family members too and put yourselves first sometimes. Your son will need you to be strong and healthy in the future. Good luck!
