Latest Bloods & the Statin debate

[Gezzabelle]

Just back from a review for my latest blood tests. I was tested for cholesterol and ferritin again. My FBG is 5.5....Cholesterol 5.9....and Ferritin 171. The rise for cholesterol that caused the retest was a measly point one....and so the debate about putting me on statins began. I said okay....You tell me I am Pre diabetic and at high risk of developing Type 2....I go away with no help or advice from anyone and changed the way I eat which resulted in me losing 2 stones in weight and I got my BG down into non diabetic numbers. You now want to put me on statins that would more than likely undo all of my good work and push me into diabetic status. The fact that my cholesterol had only gone up point one shows that how I am eating ( LCHF) is working. She said I MUST NOT eat butter, extra virgin olive oil, cream, pork scratchings, cream etc.....I pointed out that NOT eating them would result in even more weight loss and higher numbers on everything including my BG. She actually listened to me and finally agreed that I am in an impossible situation.....if I don't eat a little saturated fat I will lose ridiculous amounts of weight and not be able to stop it and if I take statins I will end up diabetic. I have to be retested again in 3 months.....for ferritin and a full blood check if they bother sending for me. The have no clue why my ferritin is high so it seems pointless as they never do anything no matter how high it goes. The doctor said that as long as I am aware of the risks of not taking statins then it's fine for me to refuse them. At least I won the battle this time....as for what I am supposed to eat now...who knows....I am at my wits end from trying to please them. She asked if I had got a diet sheet....I said Ohhh you mean the one that tells me to eat all that ''healthy'' brown bread, rice and pasta and copious amounts of high carb veggies?....she said ...''yes...the one with all the wrong advice on it'' and shook her head and as I left she said....''think positive and keep your chin up''.....easier said than done was my reply as I closed the door behind me.

 

[SunnyExpat]

What do they consider a normal ferritin level?

 

[muzza3]

@Gezzabelle
After reading your post I was thinking that since I have been coming to DUK I am seeing a pattern with many GP visits re diabetes that often the patient seems more like the Doctor.

 

[Gezzabelle]

What do they consider a normal ferritin level?

No idea....no matter how low it drops they still ''want it lower''. They don't know the cause or how to make it come down so every retest is just numbers. Given that it was 227 when they first tested it I would think the drop would be good news but it is always ''we will retest in 3 months''....no answers or reasons and very little advice on how I can change it

 

[SunnyExpat]

Without knowing the units you're measured in there, I couldn't comment, but it's worth finding out what they expect to be seeing,

 

[Gezzabelle]

Without knowing the units you're measured in there, I couldn't comment, but it's worth finding out what they expect to be seeing,

They just give me a number so no clue what units they measure in. It was 227 last May...it went down as low as 167 and they said they want it lower. No matter how high or low the numbers there is never any treatment or advice given as the nurse admitted today that they have no idea why it is higher than it should be or how to bring it down. That being the case there doesn't seem much point retesting it somehow

 

[andcol]

so did they give you the cholesterol breakdown? A total figure is a waste of time. You need the HDL and Trig levels. Demand they test these next time. High ferritin levels probably means you have a lot of iron in your body. Have they tested you for hemochromatosis

Individuals affected with hereditary hemochromatosis may have no symptoms or signs (and have normal longevity), or they can have severe symptoms and signs of iron overload that include sexual dysfunction, heart failure, joint pains, cirrhosis of the liver, diabetes, fatigue, and darkening of skin.

 

[Oldvatr]

The following is copied direct from a BMJ article.
<<<Ferritin is an intracellular iron storage protein and a marker of iron stores. Normal serum ferritin levels vary between laboratories but generally concentrations >300 µg/L in men and postmenopausal women and >200 µg/L in premenopausal women are regarded as elevated.1 Low ferritin values provide absolute evidence of iron deficiency.2 Raised levels often indicate iron overload, but they are not specific, as ferritin is an acute phase protein and is also released from damaged hepatocytes; thus levels are elevated in inflammatory disorders, liver disease, alcohol excess, or malignancy.3 4 Raised ferritin levels therefore require further investigation in primary care to determine if they truly represent iron overload. It is critical …>>>
One other cause (listed elsewhere in the article but not in the copied text) of elevated levels is apparently metabolic syndrome, i,e, diabetes, There is no treatment listed for reducing ferritin apart from clearing up the inflammation causing it.

 

[Bluetit1802]

You MUST obtain print outs of all your blood results. You will then know where you are. They will also include the standard range for all the various things, including ferritin. As Andrew said, total cholesterol is meaningless without a breakdown of the components. It may well be your good cholesterol (HDL) has increased, in which case you have improved, not deteriorated.

 

[Gezzabelle]

so did they give you the cholesterol breakdown? A total figure is a waste of time. You need the HDL and Trig levels. Demand they test these next time. High ferritin levels probably means you have a lot of iron in your body. Have they tested you for hemochromatosis

She wouldn't give me the breakdown....was too busy lecturing me on what I eat. They have only done a liver scan which was normal....It is just one retest after another and getting me nowhere

 

[Quiller]

According to the table in Wikipedia 12-150 is the "reference interval" for ferritin in females, in nanogram per millilitre (equivalent to micrograms per litre). See the "Normal ranges" section in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritin. Puzzlingly, although the table gives 12-150 the text just above refers to 18-115.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi @Gezzabelle
I've just looked at your signature box and I believe even though you need to update it, you are really doing well.
You are doing so well, that, the dsn, shouldn't deflect what you have achieved so far.

Others will help you with your ferratin levels, I have no idea.

Every time you have your check up, you end coming out of it more frustrated and there is no pat on the back well done or congratulations on what 'you' have done!
Not her, not your doctor, 'you'!

This is similar to the doctors visit, when I asked the locum, why can't I lose weight?
He said ' eat less!' Nowt about sugars, carbs, calories, alcohol,plate size, vegetables, good grains, complex carbs, nowt about fast food, or fats, low fat, fruit.
'Eat less'!

So I ate less and still put on weight!

I take most advice from GPs and dsns about dietary advice with a pinch of salt!
I was taking their advice for ten years, and kept putting on weight!

Don't take her words to heart, better and more useful advice can be had on here anytime!

 

[Gezzabelle]

Hi @Gezzabelle
I've just looked at your signature box and I believe even though you need to update it, you are really doing well.
You are doing so well, that, the dsn, shouldn't deflect what you have achieved so far.

Others will help you with your ferratin levels, I have no idea.

Every time you have your check up, you end coming out of it more frustrated and there is no pat on the back well done or congratulations on what 'you' have done!
Not her, not your doctor, 'you'!

This is similar to the doctors visit, when I asked the locum, why can't I lose weight?
He said ' eat less!' Nowt about sugars, carbs, calories, alcohol,plate size, vegetables, good grains, complex carbs, nowt about fast food, or fats, low fat, fruit.
'Eat less'!

So I ate less and still put on weight!

I take most advice from GPs and dsns about dietary advice with a pinch of salt!
I was taking their advice for ten years, and kept putting on weight!

Don't take her words to heart, better and more useful advice can be had on here anytime!

Thank you for that....I really needed it. I feel so very disillusioned and down in the dumps after seeing the nurse. I asked her if she had any idea how hard it is to do everything right....especially when there is always someone there waiting to take yet another armful of blood and beat you up with the results. Time to evaluate my situation, check where I can make improvements and start all over again

 

[Lamont D]

Thank you for that....I really needed it. I feel so very disillusioned and down in the dumps after seeing the nurse. I asked her if she had any idea how hard it is to do everything right....especially when there is always someone there waiting to take yet another armful of blood and beat you up with the results. Time to evaluate my situation, check where I can make improvements and start all over again

No, you're not starting over, you are continuing with the good work!
There is a difference!
No one said it was easy!

 

[Daphne917]

Hi @Gezzabelle I always have the statins 'debate' with my DSN even though it is in my records that they pushed my hba1c up from 48 to 54 and I had other side effects. My hba1c is currently 36 and total cholesterol 5.2 (HDL 1.8, LDL 3.1 and Triglycerides 0.8) and when I asked her why she was still trying to get me to take statins with 'normal' blood levels I was told that all diabetics should be 4 or under regardless of their BS levels.

 

[Gezzabelle]

Hi @Gezzabelle I always have the statins 'debate' with my DSN even though it is in my records that they pushed my hba1c up from 48 to 54 and I had other side effects. My hba1c is currently 36 and total cholesterol 5.2 (HDL 1.8, LDL 3.1 and Triglycerides 0.8) and when I asked her why she was still trying to get me to take statins with 'normal' blood levels I was told that all diabetics should be 4 or under regardless of their BS levels.

Wow Amazing HbA1c....how on earth have you got it that low? I refuse to take any medication that has a likelihood of raising my BG.

 

[Daphne917]

Wow Amazing HbA1c....how on earth have you got it that low? I refuse to take any medication that has a likelihood of raising my BG.

I stopped taking statins which I have no intention of taking again and went low carb! When I first mentioned that my hba1c had risen at the same time as starting statins and I'd read there could be a correlation I was told not to believe all I read in the papers - her face was a picture when I told her I got it from the drug company's own website!

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

They always like to push statins on me when they see my total cholesterol, but I just smile and say "no thanks, I am quite happy with my HDL and triglycerides".

 

[AndBreathe]

Just back from a review for my latest blood tests. I was tested for cholesterol and ferritin again. My FBG is 5.5....Cholesterol 5.9....and Ferritin 171. The rise for cholesterol that caused the retest was a measly point one....and so the debate about putting me on statins began. I said okay....You tell me I am Pre diabetic and at high risk of developing Type 2....I go away with no help or advice from anyone and changed the way I eat which resulted in me losing 2 stones in weight and I got my BG down into non diabetic numbers. You now want to put me on statins that would more than likely undo all of my good work and push me into diabetic status. The fact that my cholesterol had only gone up point one shows that how I am eating ( LCHF) is working. She said I MUST NOT eat butter, extra virgin olive oil, cream, pork scratchings, cream etc.....I pointed out that NOT eating them would result in even more weight loss and higher numbers on everything including my BG. She actually listened to me and finally agreed that I am in an impossible situation.....if I don't eat a little saturated fat I will lose ridiculous amounts of weight and not be able to stop it and if I take statins I will end up diabetic. I have to be retested again in 3 months.....for ferritin and a full blood check if they bother sending for me. The have no clue why my ferritin is high so it seems pointless as they never do anything no matter how high it goes. The doctor said that as long as I am aware of the risks of not taking statins then it's fine for me to refuse them. At least I won the battle this time....as for what I am supposed to eat now...who knows....I am at my wits end from trying to please them. She asked if I had got a diet sheet....I said Ohhh you mean the one that tells me to eat all that ''healthy'' brown bread, rice and pasta and copious amounts of high carb veggies?....she said ...''yes...the one with all the wrong advice on it'' and shook her head and as I left she said....''think positive and keep your chin up''.....easier said than done was my reply as I closed the door behind me.

Gezzabelle - My total cholesterol is always a talking point. I took my GP on a voyage of discovery by introducing her to Prof Ken Sikaris and others when we spoke. I called it my AB Lipids Distance Learning Module... But, over time, she has got the idea and she is now delighted with my numbers, despite the inconveniently large number which represents the meaningless total cholesterol.

If you look through threads I started, I wrote it up a bit under something like "Anything else?".

Good luck with it all.

 

[Anto2]

Gezzabelle there's a medical misunderstanding about the whole cholesterol thing. I'm a retired nutrition therapist and something I learnt in naturopath college was that taking medication to interfere with your body's cholesterol production is often the wrong thing to do, though there may be extreme cases where it is warranted.

Sometimes elevation of blood cholesterol is a normal desirable body function. If you eat fat, drink caffeine, or get sexually turned on, you'll need extra cholesterol to produce bile, adrenalin, or sex hormones. Your blood test if taken at that time will show a raised level of total cholesterol and LDL, incorrectly labelled "BAD" cholesterol.

Apart from those functions, if you have some atherosclerosis your blood test will show elevated LDL and total cholesterol. But the cholesterol isn’t causing the atherosclerosis, it’s part of the healing process. Cholesterol is a necessary component of the cells being fabricated to patch up the blood vessel wall damage seen in atherosclerosis. It is one of the building blocks of our cells.

It also acts as an antioxidant, to help stop the progress of the atherosclerotic changes.

The only truly bad cholesterol is oxidised cholesterol in animal foods that have been excessively heated and/or aerated. Oxidised cholesterol will act as a free radical molecule in your body, giving rise to atherosclerosis and other tissue damage.

The cholesterol in LDL in your bloodstream has been oxidized in the process of protecting your body’s tissue by staunching free radical particles that you’ve inhaled, eaten, drunk or absorbed through your skin. The LDL detected in your blood test is packages of oxidized cholesterol being shipped to your liver. There it will be recycled to make more fresh cholesterol, to go into HDL, and the dangerous free radical electrons will be escorted out of your body, by other lifesaving antioxidant chemicals.

In case that’s not clear: The HDL detected in your blood sample is delivering fresh cholesterol to the artery damage sites. The LDL is carting away used cholesterol, the part of the cargo that was used as an antioxidant and as a result is now oxidized.

So it’s misleading to think of your LDL as bad. It would be bad if it wasn’t in the process of being turned into the stuff that ends up once again in HDL. That process is definitely good and LDL is a vital part of that good process.

It’s like poop. Would you take a drug to stop you pooping because someone tells you poop is “bad”?

Similarly, fresh, unoxidised cholesterol from clean, organic, animal sources - egg yolks, raw milk, and beef slow-cooked in a crockpot, is very healthy food. Apart from the many vital nutrients those foods contain, the cholesterol acts as an antioxidant, the same way your own internally manufactured cholesterol does. Like all antioxidants, once it’s done it’s job it becomes oxidant and needs to be processed and the oxidant radical escorted out of the body.


Finally – anyone with multiple signs of advanced atherosclerosis, not just high fasting LDL levels; high blood pressure, overweight, diabetes, angina, … should consult a naturopath, someone who is not going to prescribe cholesterol lowering drugs as a first line treatment. They’ll need crucial life-style changes and in the meantime to guard against foods that will make their blood thick and more prone to clotting when swirling through badly damaged arteries. But simply interfering with cholesterol production is not the way to go.

I hope that’s of some help Gezzabelle.