Prediabetes Levels of sodium, potassium, magnesium with LCHF

[Begonia]

I have been on LCHF for about 3 months. Currently on around 30-45g carbs. Its going well apart from I am getting leg cramps in the night 'sometimes'. I'd like to understand more about how to control levels of these important minerals while on LCHF so my questions are:

a. Is the LCHF just likely to be low in sodium, potassium and magnesium due to type of foods. In which case if I calculate how much I'm taking in food and then supplement to bring the levels up to the RDA that should be fine.

OR

b. Does the LCHF (ketosis ?) mean that these minerals are excreted from the body more than on a 'normal' diet ? If so to what extent ? (ie would you need to take in through food and supplements significantly more than the RDA levels ?)

(I'm already having bouillon twice a day)

 

[Art Of Flowers]

With LCHF you need more salt in your diet. I was getting leg cramps at night too. There is a lot of salt in convenience foods and if you eat less of these they you may need to add some salt to the food you cook.

If you watch the videos on the low carb program, adding salt is one of the points made on the videos when you go low carb to avoid cramps.

 

[Oldvatr]

With LCHF you need more salt in your diet. I was getting leg cramps at night too. There is a lot of salt in convenience foods and if you eat less of these they you may need to add some salt to the food you cook.

If you watch the videos on the low carb program, adding salt is one of the points made on the videos when you go low carb to avoid cramps.

In the early days of LCHF you will probably be losing weight which in the early days tends to be the carb sourced fat stores which comprise largely of water and glucogen. So yes, you will be excreting more fluids as the wright comes off. This will also flush out extra electrolytes, so increasing salt intake is recommended during this phase. When the weight loss stabilises, then you can probably cut back on the salt.

 

[lindisfel]

Get your GP surgery to do some U&E blood tests or else any speculation is just guess work. Sodium and potassium act like too ends of a seesaw. When sodium goes into tissue potassium comes out and is excreted. Long term the LC goods fats diet is not lacking very much or it would be a severe indictment of a superb way of controlling ones weight and T2D. In healthy people the adrenal glands control sodium loss by increasing aldosterone which stops sweat glands, the kidneys and even the digestive system losing sodium, but low potassium is a different kettle of fish and can cause irregular heart beat and high bp and cramps. My magnesium is very good on a blood test but I eat loads of Almonds and Walnuts in my diet. regards Derek​

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Begonia

I agree with @lindisfel that is is a good plan to check your sodium and potassium levels from routine kidney function tests we normally have when we have our HbA1c tests. Magnesium isn't routinely tested, but the other 2 are. You can always ask for Magnesium to be included on your next test. I can see looking back at my own tests since 2006 that my sodium and potassium levels haven't changed since going low carb (30g) in 2014 and are both in the normal range.

 

[Freema]

I have been on LCHF for about 3 months. Currently on around 30-45g carbs. Its going well apart from I am getting leg cramps in the night 'sometimes'. I'd like to understand more about how to control levels of these important minerals while on LCHF so my questions are:

a. Is the LCHF just likely to be low in sodium, potassium and magnesium due to type of foods. In which case if I calculate how much I'm taking in food and then supplement to bring the levels up to the RDA that should be fine.

OR

b. Does the LCHF (ketosis ?) mean that these minerals are excreted from the body more than on a 'normal' diet ? If so to what extent ? (ie would you need to take in through food and supplements significantly more than the RDA levels ?)

(I'm already having bouillon twice a day)

it all depends , if you eat a lot of ork scratchings you probably wont be low in sodium , and avocado is rich in potassium .. but when we change eating style away from traditional healthy foods with high amounts of carbs , we are of cause in risk of getting deficiencies... but to take suplements of pottassium can be riske as only very little too much can be poisonous and also be a burden on ones hearth... well so can the opposite .. there is a lot of potassium in potatoes and fruits and juices, so if we do not find other sources to get our potassium we can get in trouble
bouillionis filled with sodium usually, but also with a lot of other added sometimes bad substrances.. if you do eat that everyday then I hope you choose the organic versions

 

[Freema]

by the way oats are the most rich source of magnesium, and a lot of other grains ... but magnesium is not that bad to get plenty of , I do take suplements withmagnesium and vitamin b 12 ... and vitamin d all days

 

[Begonia]

Thank you for all your replies. I'm trying to get potassium and magnesium from foods like avocados, tomatoes and nuts. However my cronometer app shows me its quite hard to get the levels up to RDA, particularly potassium. I used to eat lots of fruit, including a lot of bananas so I'm trying to find replacement foods for these.

One suggestion I've found is to use salt which is reduced in sodium but higher in potassium (eg Lo salt).

 

[Bluetit1802]

The NHS says the following:
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/vitamins-minerals.aspx

Good sources of potassium
Potassium is found in most types of food.

Good sources of potassium include:

• fruit – such as bananas
• some vegetables – such as broccoli, parsnips and brussels sprouts
• pulses
• nuts and seeds
• fish
• shellfish
• beef
• chicken
• turkey

Good sources of magnesium
Magnesium is found in a wide variety of foods, including:

• green leafy vegetables – such as spinach
• nuts
• brown rice
• bread (especially wholegrain)
• fish
• meat
• dairy foods

 

[Brunneria]

I think our own bodies vary wildly, and we don't all fit into the NHS idea of what is normal, both for absorption and excretion of vits and mins. Plus, of course, our personal reactions to ways of eating, and food choices.

My own body throws out cramps that are relieved by supplementing with potassium. I also supplement with magnesium.
Can't tell you whether this is related to low carbing, because I have been low carbing for longer than I have been getting sporadic potassium testing from the doc.

But I CAN tell you that with the supplements, I don't get cramp, and my potassium levels show on the tests as in the 'normal' range. So I strongly suspect that without the supplements, I would be below normal.

Regarding magnesium, I believe that huge numbers of the population test as deficient (57% of the US population does not meet the RDA https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-...an-nutrition-research-center/docs/california/ ), so I am happy popping a small dose to top myself up, on a preventative basis.

 

[gavin86]

I'll chime in with another recommendation to get blood tests before and (regularly) after messing with supplements.

Potassium is the one I know most about - too much or too little can cause serious problems. I recently spent some time in the kidney ward at hospital, due mainly to potassium... thankfully both of mine are still functioning.

 

[Begonia]

Thanks again for all your responses and concern. I have previously had normal levels of potassium and magnesium due to a diet high in fruit and veg (almost vegetarian). Its just since switching to LCHF that I'm getting the cramps and suspect I'm taking in lower levels of either or both of these as well as excreting them. I'm going to up certain foods to compensate (thanks for the recommendations). The bouillon certainly seems to help on the salt front. Also I see that Volek and Phinney recommend taking Slow Mag for the cramps that some people get on LCHF so may give that a go.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks again for all your responses and concern. I have previously had normal levels of potassium and magnesium due to a diet high in fruit and veg (almost vegetarian). Its just since switching to HCLF that I'm getting the cramps and suspect I'm taking in lower levels of either or both of these as well as excreting them. I'm going to up certain foods to compensate (thanks for the recommendations). The bouillon certainly seems to help on the salt front. Also I see that Volek and Phinney recommend taking Slow Mag for the cramps that some people get on LCHF so may give that a go.

Is HCLF in your post a typo? (stands for High Carb Low Fat a.k.a Eatwell plate)

 

[Begonia]

Is HCLF in your post a typo? (stands for High Carb Low Fat a.k.a Eatwell plate)

Hi,
Yes sorry I meant to say Low Carb Healthy/High Fat. Thanks for pointing it out. Have just corrected it.

 

[Robbity]

Hi, In answer to your question (a) about LCHF and mineral content: No a good healthy LCHF diet is definitely not (or should not be!) lacking in sodium, potassium, or magnesium. We lose a lot more fluids on LCHF, so we definitely need to keep both our fluid and minerals (including salt!) intake well up, and I believe that the foods recommended do actually cater for these requirements.

You'll see from @Bluetit1802's list that many of the foods we can and should be eating on LCHF are full of the minerals and vitamins we need. I've found that just eating plenty of (mainly green) veggies high in potassium and magnesium and making regular batches of chicken broth for a basis for veggie soup, will help prevent any leg cramps for me.

Robbity

 

[lindisfel]

Hi, In answer to your question (a) about LCHF and mineral content: No a good healthy LCHF diet is definitely not (or should not be!) lacking in sodium, potassium, or magnesium. We lose a lot more fluids on LCHF, so we definitely need to keep both our fluid and minerals (including salt!) intake well up, and I believe that the foods recommended do actually cater for these requirements.

You'll see from @Bluetit1802's list that many of the foods we can and should be eating on LCHF are full of the minerals and vitamins we need. I've found that just eating plenty of (mainly green) veggies high in potassium and magnesium and making regular batches of chicken broth for a basis for veggie soup, will help prevent any leg cramps for me.

Robbity

Once one has transitted to a keto diet the body compensates for loss of sodium.If this is not the correct science I would appreciate the reference to pub med! Potassium is a problem because too much sodium causes potassium excretion. The ideal intake of potassium is said to be 4.7grams/day. It is essential to have a balanced diet, if you have cramps you need to know what your diet is short of without following urban myths. D.

 

[Oldvatr]

Once one has transitted to a keto diet the body compensates for loss of sodium. Potassium is problem because too much sodium causes potassium excretion. The ideal intake of sodium is said to be 4.7grams/day

Do you have any evidence to this? It is not something I remember seeing during my research.

 

[lindisfel]

Once one has transitted to a keto diet the body compensates for loss of sodium.If this is not the correct science I would appreciate the reference to pub med! Potassium is a problem because too much sodium causes potassium excretion. The ideal intake of potassium is said to be 4.7grams/day, which is difficult for all on British diets. It is essential to have a balanced diet, if you have cramps you need to know what your diet is short of without following urban myths. D.

 

[lindisfel]

Do you have any evidence to this? It is not something I remember seeing during my research.

That should read potassium, it is this predictive text. The adrenal glands produce more aldosterone if the sodium in blood goes down too low. If sodium is too high renin is increased and cuts down aldosterone. Aldosterone regulates sodium loss in the gut, kidneys and sweat glands it switches off sodium release but not fluid loss. It is a subject I live with every day of my life because I have an adrenal tumour that produces a massive amount of aldosterone. As a result sodium has damaged my heart and caused LVH enlarged left atrium and now I have a pacemaker. If you read on this subject you will find supplementing with both sodium and potassium is like driving a car with the foot both on the brake and accelerator at the same time!
D.

 

[Oldvatr]

A quick scan of many keto diet sites such as Atkins, Paleo, Phinney& Voleck et al all say salt needs to be increased for a keto diet by about 2g above RDA. The only sites I found who advocate lowering salt with keto diet are the Bodybuilding and extreme fitness blogs, and many of them say to cut salt intake to zero, which sounds dangerous to me. I have searched PubMed and found nothing that relates to this discussion,

I did find this outside PubMed: for this one study into epilepsy in children using keto.
http://www.pediatricneurologybriefs.com/articles/10.15844/pedneurbriefs-14-2-4/

It relates to increased excretion of sodium when in keto, leading to electrolyte inbalance,