Liver dump ?

[truffles]

Hi,

I would like to know what is meant by a liver dump , im waiting for a test result to see if i am deffinatley type two. I have a friend who is type 1 and have borrowed a moniter. Overall the result has been 4 to 6 during the day with one result of 7.1 in the morning before breakfast, is this the liver dump that i hear about. I had one glucose tollerance test fasting 7.1 and 2 hours after sugary drink 10.1, i have a second glucose tollerance test at the end of the month, at first doc said glucose intollerant and then said do another test to confirm a diagnosis of type 2. Either way ive been doing the very low carb thing and lost a stone.

Thanks Sharon

 

[librarising]

truffles wrore
i have a second glucose tollerance test at the end of the month ... ive been doing the very low carb thing

Are you aware that eating low-carb won't give you an accurate GTT ? Per Atkins Diabetes Revolution (Vernon & Eberstein)

For the results of your oral glucose tolerance test to be accurate, you will need to start preparing a few days in advance. The test is only accurate if you've been eating 150 or more grams of carbohydrate a day for several days running. If you've been following a low-carbohydrate eating plan, however, you'll have to go off it and eat at least 150 grams of carbs each day for four days.

Hope that doesn't go too much against the grain :shock:

Geoff

 

[truffles]

Hi Geoff,

Why wont it give me an accurate reading i dont understand x

 

[librarising]

truffles wrote
Why wont it give me an accurate reading

borofergie can probably give you the scientific reason, but here's mine

a GTT is designed to test your body's reaction to an abnormal amount of carbohydrates (all in the form of glucose.)
When your carbing at a normal level, the response will be appropriate.
When you're low carbing, the abnormal level provided by the GTT is excessively abnormal, since you're body has learned a different response to carbs.

I've never had a GTT, but have noticed others mention this on this forum (borofergie again, if I remember rightly.)

The answer's probably out there on Google

Geoff

 

[borofergie]

borofergie can probably give you the scientific reason, but here's mine

If you low-carb for a while, your body stops expecting you to eat carbohydrates, so down-regulates the enzymes needed to break them down, and becomes less efficient at oxidising them for energy.

I've never had a GTT either, I bought myself a big box of glucose powder to do a DIY one, but I never wanted to go back onto the carbs in order to do it.

Maybe we should start a DIY GTT thread, where we can all compare our broken endocrine systems and see who has the worst diabetes...

 

[Grazer]

Do we get beer after?

 

[librarising]

Grazer wrote
Do we get beer after?

Perhaps we should petition that the GTT be replaced by a beer tolerance test ?
Weekly ?
With the brew of our choice, available on prescription ?

All for scientific reasons, I'm sure you'll agree :lol: :lol:

Geoff

 

[truffles]

Thanks for your replies x,

So let me get this right ,if i stay on low carbs the reading will be worse,is that right ???? and yeh the beer thing would be good but sparkling wine would be better :lol:

So far my monitoring seems to be ok apart from that one reading of 7.1, anyway so three days before i should eat carbs is that what your saying ???, i dont mean just eat carbs i mean eat them in me diet if you know what i mean.

Thank You xxx

Shaz

 

[dawnb64]

Does this mean that the fewer carbs we eat the more intolerant to them we become?

Would BGs then rise even after eating a meal you have had numerous times previously?

Dawn

 

[librarising]

truffles wrote
if i stay on low carbs the reading will be worse,is that right ????

Here's what I've found

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.u ... tance.html

Well, the first thing is that LC eating rapidly induces insulin resistance. This is a completely and utterly normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction. Carbohydrate restriction drops insulin levels. Low insulin levels activate hormone sensitive lipase. Fatty tissue breaks down and releases non esterified fatty acids. These are mostly taken up by muscle cells as fuel and automatically induce insulin resistance in those muscles. There are a couple of nice summaries by Brand Miller (from back in the days when she used her brain for thinking) here and here and Wolever has some grasp of the problem too.

This is patently logical as muscle runs well on lipids and so glucose can be left for tissues such as brain, which really need it. Neuronal tissue varies in its use of insulin to uptake glucose but doesn't accumulate lipid in the way muscle does, so physiological insulin resistance is not an issue for brain cells.

However, while muscles are in "refusal mode" for glucose the least input, from food or gluconeogenesis, will rapidly spike blood glucose out of all proportion. This is fine if you stick to LC in your eating. It also means that if you take an oral glucose tolerance test you will fail and be labelled diabetic. In fact, even a single high fat meal can do this, extending insulin resistance in to the next day.

To repeat, for emphasis

while muscles are in "refusal mode" for glucose the least input, from food or gluconeogenesis, will rapidly spike blood glucose out of all proportion. This is fine if you stick to LC in your eating.

and

It also means that if you take an oral glucose tolerance test you will fail and be labelled diabetic.

So, in short, the answer to your question is yes !

Geoff

 

[librarising]

This link shows someone's GTT results, both on low-carb and then on a few days normal carbing

http://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2012/05 ... t-results/

Low-carb results (one hour and two hour later) : 236 / 182 (UK units 13.3 / 10.1)

Normal carb results (one and two hours) : 209 / 101 (UK units 11.6 / 5.6)

Note how much longer the BS level stays high when low carbing (10.1 vs. 5.6)

Geoff

 

[truffles]

Geoff i am confused,

So i have my test on the Monday i will start eating normal carb about 5 days before? this would work well as it is my birthday the day before, now i come to think they first picked this up with a thyroid function test and my fasting blood was 6.8 which she said was not high enough to say i was diabetic. I then went on low carb and had glucose tollerance teast which was fasting 7.1 and two hours after 10.1, so this would be why the results went up.

So now i am thinking maybe low carb is not the best thing i can do , what your saying is in the end , overall it is going to make my body less able to cope with a small amount of carbs in the future.

The whole thing is very confusing although the low carb thing does help the weight loss which i sopose is beter for me


Shaz x :***:

 

[Grazer]

Low carb is certainly good for weight loss. It is also good for controlling your Blood glucose levels, particularly if you are a type 2 diabetic. I think what geoff is saying though is that if you come OFF a low cxarb diet, you will get higher than normal BG readings for a while until your body re-adapts to it. So, for a glucose test, make sure it is re-adjusted before you tale it. Afterwards, no problem going back on low carb if you wish, but if you come off it again for any reason it will be a few days of higher than normal BGs while your body adjusts again.

 

[librarising]

truffles wrote
Geoff i am confused,

So now i am thinking maybe low carb is not the best thing i can do , what your saying is in the end , overall it is going to make my body less able to cope with a small amount of carbs in the future.

I WAS surprised when I read that low-carbing made me MORE insulin resistant, when I thought I wanted to be LESS.

If I understand it correctly

a) whilst low-carbing I will enjoy lower BS levels, and a lower HbA1c :thumbup: :thumbup:
I will also have the occasional higher response to higher levels of carbs
Overall net positive gain.

b) whilst normal carbing I will suffer higher BS levels, and a higher HbA1c
Overall result - check with people who follow standard NHS advice re advice. Net negative loss.

Geoff (hoping it's that simple)

 

[Grazer]

Sounds right to me geoff

 

[xyzzy]

Some official guidelines on GTT and eating > 150g / day plus how do officially do one at home with Lucazade. Like Borofergie often thought about doing this but never wanted to eat 150g + of carbs for 3 days.

For what it's worth I've discovered if you low carb and get totally aclimatised to it over weeks and months then you can get away with one carb blow out meal without spiking horribly. It's as if there's some reseviour that has to be filled up first before the carbs will hit you. Just me though others may find it entirely different.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbTCwSC9ZBJZOKgpHzxvjHW61H6Xpg&pli=1

 

[truffles]

Well, in view of this i have decided to go back to eating carbs in my diet for the next week before my test and then straight back after. Thanks, finally it has sunk in to my brain lol.
Started today and ive had white rice with my dinner, its like being on holiday :thumbup:

I will keep you informed of results, it would be nice not to be type 2 and be glucose intollerant, although i do know whats coming xxx

Shaz

 

[Daibell]

Hmm. It maybe true that low-carbing causes a depression in insulin production etc, but that assumes that the pancreas can produce enough insulin when needed and that we are talking about insulin-resistant T2s? In the case of the 20% like me who have inadequate insulin production in the first place then I assume that effect wouldn't happen i.e. you can't lower what isn't really present in the first place. I think there are some big generalisations going on this GTT research and I reserve judgement on it.

 

[Grazer]

You may be right Daibell, but on the basis that it's only a matter of eating a moderate carb intake for 3 days prior to a test, I guess it's best to be safe in terms of getting a true test result. 3 days of moderate carbs with higher BGs won't do any major damage compared to the years of sometimes very high BGs prior to diagnosis.

 

[truffles]

I still need to know, was my one high result 7.1 before breakfast a liver dump x

Shaz