Looking for Vegan Testimonials...

venom8287 said:

I can see a lot of discussion on these forums about pro's, con's, propaganda etc about vegan diets.

What I want to learn about, and so far have not found, is anyone who has actually turned to a vegan diet and had success with lowering their blood sugars or "reversing" it.

There is no need to go into the science of the diet or reasons why meat is the best and why vegans and social media are brainwashing us. Assume I have read up on various diets and tried many without success.

Are there any vegans here that can share their experiences so I can see if this is a worthwhile diet to try?

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Not a vegan here, but usually vegans come in here and learn how to adapt their diet so it is low carb as well as vegan, and *then* achieve remission. Vegan as a method to lower blood glucose isn't feasable (Too many carbs in, say, underground veggies and fruits for instance), but the combination of vegan and low carb is. So I'm not sure whether there'll be a lot of people who can answer your specific query, but there's quite a few vegans on here who altered their diet to fit with their T2, without having to compromise their beliefs and/or values.

To add to @JoKalsbeek being vegan is just selecting the source of food that is not moveable, otherwise its very same as carnivorous diet, it also has its good and its bad. So just being vegan source cannot itself get one a key to remission.

Effectively its about controlled diet and proper utilization of consumed energy to get into remission for T2.

If being vegan would have been that succesfull, then India would not have become diabities capital, majority of Indians are vegetarians. Then there are Jains who dont eat vegetables and fruits grown under the ground, yet even they get diabetic.

My partner is vegan and his hba1c is on the high side - 39 He has been vegan for over 30 years. There is some type II in his family but his vegan diet does not seem to have stopped him progressing towards prediabetes despite what appeared to be a pretty healthy diet other than the ocasional carb binge (huge portions of chips, bread, chocolate and/or vegan cake!).

I am pescivegitarian but all in favour of vegan diets from an ethical and environmental view. For a long time I joined my partner and mostly ate vegan. I ended up with hba1c of 42 despite a healthy bmi, eating a diet low in junk food and not joining in the carb binges! I have brought that down to 34 by replacing carbs with eggs, cheese, fish, tofu and good fats. There is some type II in my family too.

He has been reducing his carbs but it is difficult as a vegan. We are hoping to reduce his hba1c a bit and he has lost weight which is a good sign.

In my view all vegans need to be careful with carbs and eat lots of tofu and good fats, espeically if there is family history or the person has other risk factors for diabetes. The main thing vegans may be caught out by are unprocessed pulses which are sadly pretty high carb. Based on our experiences I would not recommend a vegan diet to someone who purely wanted to do it to lower hba1c. Though of course it may be dangerous to base this on our experience.

I can say I am in a low carb diabetic facebook group. They can be pretty militant but I see loads of people who are definitely lowering their hba1c with a low carb diet and I don't see many people saying it isn't working unless there are other complications or they aren't sticking to the programme. Which tends to back my opinion that low carb is a good way to go - for many people at any rate.

If someone has a rubbish diet and then moves to a vegan healthy diet, they could see results but I would bet the results would have been better on low carb.

Welcome to the forum.

I’m a long time vegetarian who leans strongly vegan. Vegan diets can run the gamut from keto to high carb, so simply saying vegan doesn’t tell much about the quality of the diet.

Probably much of what you have read is about low fat whole foods plant based (LFWFPB)? I have anecdotally seen people say it worked for them, but have never tried it. I personally follow more of a Mediterranean macronutrient profile - 40% carbs, 40% fat, 20% protein, using Dr. Joel Furhman’s guidelines. It works spectacularly for me.

I know how confusing it all can be, so much advice and so much of it conflicts. My advice is to take a look at the foods in a plan, find testimonials about it, then pick what you think you can do forever...because that’s the key - it needs to be sustainable. Then get your blood tested say 3 months after trying it -A1c, cholesterol, etc. Your body will tell you if you are on the right diet for you.

venom8287 said:

Thank you for the quick replies. It is incredibly hard to figure out what the right thing to do is!

A lot of the vegan reading I've been doing has tended not to advise against carbs, just to make sure the carbs you are eating are good carbs.

I tried low carb high fat for a while and did have limited success but found I was feeling unwell after a few weeks and ended up falling back into bad habits.

It's really interesting that you husband is vegan and still has high blood sugar. That is exactly the type of thing I want to hear, real people's experience!

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Just being a vegan is a pretty broad diet. To keep our blood sugars down we need to eat few carbs, of any type.

Vegans choose their foods from vegan sources, that is the only difference. Raising our fats to compensate for the lowering of our carbs makes a big difference to our success.

JoKalsbeek said:

Not a vegan here, but usually vegans come in here and learn how to adapt their diet so it is low carb as well as vegan, and *then* achieve remission. Vegan as a method to lower blood glucose isn't feasable (Too many carbs in, say, underground veggies and fruits for instance), but the combination of vegan and low carb is. So I'm not sure whether there'll be a lot of people who can answer your specific query, but there's quite a few vegans on here who altered their diet to fit with their T2, without having to compromise their beliefs and/or values.

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I think you mean it’s not feasible for some, perhaps if their metabolic derangement is just too great? I eat plenty of root veggies, as my mixed roasted root veggie dish I make for dinner in the winter, or my big pile of carrots and hummus in the summer can attest. I’m eat fruits in lesser quantities, but that’s preference, never been a huge fruit eater - 1 serving per day usually.

I was so incredibly discouraged when I was first diagnosed and told not to eat carrots, tomatoes, etc because they are too “sugary”. I seriously was depressed over the thought. Thank goodness that instead of avoiding the foods I instead decided to just avoid diabetes forums on the internet for a bit and just try it anyway. I’ve even had a postprandial insulin test - private pay - done to make sure I wasn’t kidding myself - a 1 hour and 2 hour showed my insulin was the low end of normal, after eating a far larger serving than I normally eat of stew with tons of beans and root veggies.

If you haven't already get a blood glucose test kit. Beans and pulses are terrible for me but tomatoes I seem to be able to eat in a reasonable quantity. Beans and pulses are ok for my partner though in smaller quantities than before. We only know that because we've done some testing.

What conventional wisdom says are good and bad carbs doesn't seem to come in to it and there are definitely differences between individuals. 30g of dark chocolate or a couple of teaspoons of chocolate cake seems to be better for blood sugar control for me than a tablespoon of dhal. Sad as I really, really love Dahl! That and hummous are things I miss most on my low carb diet.

If you are in the UK you might want to look for a BBC program called "The truth about carbs" - very interesting. Even if I wasn't prediabetic I would never have looked at a baked potato the same again.

Good luck finding the right diet for you!

venom8287 said:

Yes it does sound like a person needs to find what is right for their own body. I'm still on the journey but I was lacking in hearing real peoples experiences with being vegan (I now appreciate that this is a very general term, something I will look into further).

I've tried most of the big diet plans e.g. Slimming World, LCHF, Scottish Slimmers. Tried eating less calories etc all with limited success. Never tried 100% plant based so I'm up for trying it to see if it's "the one for me" or "move on to something else again"!!

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The important bit to focus on is to reduce your carbs. No diet is going to help with your diabetes unless it restricts your carb intake.

@venom8287
You haven’t filled in your diabetic status or given any numbers but you mention other types of diets, can you clarify that you are investigating the potential for lowered blood sugars or are you looking to drop weight? Do you have a diagnosis of diabetes?

Walking Girl said:

I think you mean it’s not feasible for some, perhaps if their metabolic derangement is just too great? I eat plenty of root veggies, as my mixed roasted root veggie dish I make for dinner in the winter, or my big pile of carrots and hummus in the summer can attest. I’m eat fruits in lesser quantities, but that’s preference, never been a huge fruit eater - 1 serving per day usually.

I was so incredibly discouraged when I was first diagnosed and told not to eat carrots, tomatoes, etc because they are too “sugary”. I seriously was depressed over the thought. Thank goodness that instead of avoiding the foods I instead decided to just avoid diabetes forums on the internet for a bit and just try it anyway. I’ve even had a postprandial insulin test - private pay - done to make sure I wasn’t kidding myself - a 1 hour and 2 hour showed my insulin was the low end of normal, after eating a far larger serving than I normally eat of stew with tons of beans and root veggies.

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I suppose it does depend on "how far gone" you are. I know the things you mentioned would wreak havoc on my blood sugars. (I've tried). Spare me a thought when you have some of that eh, I miss carrots especially.

I have seen eyebrows raise at the size of my salad bowl on the occasions I have eaten out of the house.
I avoid potatoes and most starchy veges, and do not eat fruit very often, but I seem to do well on the salad or stirfry plus the meat and fish etc I eat - being pretty omnivorous.
If you can find sources of protein and fat then my salad or stirfry might be a suitable adjunct - my salad is a bag of mixed ready prepared, plus tomato beetroot celery radish cucumber and red or amber sweet pepper with oil and vinegar dressing with a pinch of herbs (I keep small bottles, mix the dressing and add herbs - a largish pinch to each leave for a few hours then move to the warmer fridge to await use - they go solid in the colder fridge). Stirfry is mushrooms green or yellow sweet pepper, aubergine courgette, sometimes been sprouts, the outer stalks of celery, cabbage cauliflower French beans, bits of onion or leek - whatever is around at the time. I do have small amounts of parsnip and carrot, usually roasted.

@JoKalsbeek Sorry if it came off as a “look at what I can eat post”, certainly not my intent...I got pounced on in a forum (not this one!) early on about even considering moderate carbs, so I just try to remind people who want to eat all manner of veg, beans, etc that it just might be possible, though certainly not for everyone.

Walking Girl said:

@JoKalsbeek Sorry if it came off as a “look at what I can eat post”, certainly not my intent...I got pounced on in a forum (not this one!) early on about even considering moderate carbs, so I just try to remind people who want to eat all manner of veg, beans, etc that it just might be possible, though certainly not for everyone.

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Please can you not joke about PTSD? Its a very serious mental health issue.

lucylocket61 said:

Please can you not joke about PTSD? Its a very serious mental health issue.

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Post edited. Sorry to cause offense.

But for the record, I have PTSD and have found, thankfully, successful treatment for it. So, I certainly know it’s serious.

Walking Girl said:

@JoKalsbeek Sorry if it came off as a “look at what I can eat post”, certainly not my intent...I got pounced on in a forum (not this one!) early on about even considering moderate carbs, so I just try to remind people who want to eat all manner of veg, beans, etc that it just might be possible, though certainly not for everyone.

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Relax, it wasn't percieved like that. Besides, we're all different, otherwise "eat to your meter" wouldn't be a thing. Honestly? I'm happy for you. It's nice when someone does well.

Walking Girl said:

Post edited. Sorry to cause offense.

But for the record, I have PTSD and have found, thankfully, successful treatment for it. So, I certainly know it’s serious.

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(If the treatment involved having to do something with a group of people or a shrink, I don't need to know about it. But if it's something I can do at home without having to deal with other humans, please let me know! I'm doing better than I was a few years ago, but sometimes.... It still gets me.)

Another thing to note is that people have different carb tolerances at different body weights.

I believe @Walking Girl underwent a strict weight reduction phase before achieving the current successful blood glucose levels she has whilst on vegetarian/vegan eating.

A T2 with a fatty liver and high blood glucose won’t be able to tolerate many carbs.

That same person could lose significant weight, de-fatifies their liver, gets normal glucose levels and increased carb tolerance (what is often referred to as ‘reversal’).

If they achieve that, then their body will be much more able to tolerate the carbs that are typically present in a vegan way of eating.

So basically I suppose I am saying that whatever way of eating we choose, T2s need to factor in their current carb tolerance and goals. If weight loss is wanted, and blood glucose reduction is needed, and a vegan way of eating is desired, then try starting with a vegan keto weight loss regime and reassess carb/keto intake after the weight loss is achieved (and if reversal is achieved).

Personally, I would want to know whether I had a fatty liver before I started aiming for reversal by such a programme. My own blood glucose dysregulation is not due to a fatty liver and would not be ‘reversed’ by either weight loss or eating a plant based diet. Indeed my health would deteriorate on such a programme, so I would urge anyone to consider the full ramifications to any major diet change before jumping in.