Low-Carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause Mortality:

Daibell said:

Sadly, I would never recommend anyone with diabetes to see a dietician as the risk of getting bad advice is too high.

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Medical Nutrition Therapy, where patients monitor their blood sugars and discuss the results over a period of time with a specialist dietician is a good theory but, in the UK, we like to do these things on the cheap, often with unqualified staff being labelled 'specialists' for no reason other than they attended a day's course. Even my GP proudly told me that he went on a course where he spent an afternoon in a supermarket looking at the labels of various packages and jars etc. as if I ought to be impressed by that or had never thought to do such a thing myself.

However, one must never underestimate how some of the general public interpret well meaning advice wrongly. Young pregnant women who smoke for example, are told that smoking can result in the baby being born smaller. The reaction by some to this is that this means they won't look as fat whilst pregnant, the birth will likely be easier with a smaller baby and they run a reduced risk of stretch marks afterwards.

Your use of the word 'sad' is very apt.

Hi all, Sorry for butting in but just wanted to say that even though I am Type 1, diabetes forums like this weren't about then( as far as I know). I was diagnosed hundreds of miles away from my home, in hospital for a week and advised not to travel back on my own, so I stayed an extra week in the town.

I wasn't told about diet, I was told I had to have insulin for the rest of my life, it was two injections a day, with syringes and to test my urine for glucose by weeing on a stick.

Times have changed and I think we, as diabetics are lucky to have ALL the information that is available now, forums, google, pharmacies and not forgetting the library

A big shake up, I think , in the NHS should of been done a long time ago. I do agree with what works for one person will not work for another, whatever type we are. We can't be pigeonholed, it just doesn't work. Forums can help by pointing people in the right direction with lots of sensible advice, help and much support.

Best wishes RRB

I'm on a low carb and low calorie diet. The carb I eat is of good quality (sweet potato, banana, couscous and crisp bread) and the fat I eat is also of good quality (rapeseed spread and oil, fish etc.) and I eat the normal amount of protein (150 g meat/fish/poultry/quorn) a day. I am type 1 and do this so that I don't have to take large amounts of insulin. My sugar levels are next to perfect except for the odd time a month that I have food cooked by somebody else and then tend to get a hypo.

The brain needs carbohydrates to function and I wouldn't recommend anybody to go below 100 grams a day baring in mind that it needs to be slow release carbohydrates

To minimoo

Please supply clinical evidence that the brain needs carbs to function.

I've been on <30g a day for 6 or 7 years now and am as sharp as ever, now that is what I call clinical evidence.

Regards Superchip

Welcome to the forums.

Superchip said:

To minimoo

Please supply clinical evidence that the brain needs carbs to function.

I've been on <30g a day for 6 or 7 years now and am as sharp as ever, now that is what I call clinical evidence.

Regards Superchip

Welcome to the forums.

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a small number of corrections needed here.
you have not been eating less than 30g of carbs a day

less than 30 grams of rice/spuds/pasta/bread sure, but your daily intake of glucose is not less than 30g.

that does not qualify as scientific evidance.

fine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3654601
there, i can produce plenty more, the brain "can" survive with no sugar, but not as well as other tissues, besides, its your red blood cells you should be worried about.

To Superchip:

http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

The brain works better when performing cognitive tasks when an adequate supply of carbohydrates is steadily met.

I am a student, therefore it's monumental that I do not go under 80 grams a day.

or, for a slightly less science heavy article
http://news.psu.edu/story/140774/2004/0 ... etic-brain

actually really cool reading.

Superchip said:

To minimoo

Please supply clinical evidence that the brain needs carbs to function.

I've been on <30g a day for 6 or 7 years now and am as sharp as ever, now that is what I call clinical evidence.

Regards Superchip

Welcome to the forums.

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Hi there

So you do eat carbs then ????? which is less than 30 g a day, is that correct? Because that would mean your brain is functioning on the carbs you eat, therefore you are consuming carbs ???????? Or is < 30 a day something else?
Thanks

RRB

To Superchip

It's important to remember that if you drink alcohol, you are indeed drinking glucose. As a non drinker, I'm sure that anybody that likes their whisky, would be consuming far more glucose per average week than I do

As I understand it, your body is perfectly capable of creating it's own glucose. It can definitely, without doubt, do it by converting protein. I'm a low carber, but require more insulin than necessary for the quantities of carbs that I eat. I put it down to the "Chinese Restaurant Effect" as Bernstein calls it. In summary, when you eat your small intestine stretches. In anticipation of the meal you produce glucagon which causes your liver to produce glucose.

Disclaimer: I don't understand this completely, I don't have any scientific papers for it, but it's an effect that happens to me. Whether it's the Chinese Restaurant Effect, I don't know. I inject insulin to match how full I am, whether it's full from a salad, soup, stew, meat, cheese, nuts. All have a range of carb quantities in them, injecting 4/5/6 units of NovoRapid to match how full I am ALWAYS results in consistent pre- and post-meal levels.

BTW, I don't think Whiskey contains many carbs in as the sugar is used in the fermentation process. Spirits don't affect me levels at all.

ilnar
I don't understand what you mean here;


a small number of corrections needed here.
you have not been eating less than 30g of carbs a day
How do you know what this person eats?

less than 30 grams of rice/spuds/pasta/bread sure, but your daily intake of glucose is not less than 30g.
Since NONE of the foods listed is 100% available carbohydrate, surely eating >30grams per day is LESS than 30 grams total[ boiled new pots approx 18% carb. boiled white rice approx 30% carb: pasta approx 70% carb: bread, mostly in the range 40 - 50% carb] :? I often have a total carb intake of less than 30g, but since I'm not fanatical about weighing food and doing proportion sums and rarely eat anything with a label on it, I don't know exactly, every day.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3654601
there, I can produce plenty more, the brain "can" survive with no sugar, but not as well as other tissues, besides, its your red blood cells you should be worried about.
Why are you worried about red corpuscles [which, incidentally, in human have no nuclei, so don't qualify as "cells", Surely it's circulating glucose in solution in plasma that's the problem. NOT the glucose permanently bound to the haemoglobin in the erythrocytes?
And there's a school of thought which has it that ketones are the ideal energy source for the brain with glucose needed only when the energy requirement is under stress.
And yes I do nit pick, usually when someone else is already doing it!
Hana

To SamJB

Out of interest; Do you feel that your cognitive function/ the ability to undertake mental tasks decrease/increase or stay the same when you are eating a very low amount of carbohydrate in a day?

For an experiment I spent a week eating only protein based food (meat etc.) and two handfuls of low carbohydrate vegetable such as peppers and celery (it was dismal) and I found myself feeling sluggish and functioning poorly in terms of being able to carry out calculations including lab guess work. This for me is not acceptable but it may be individual.

Say that you would have just a large piece of steak with a small salad, would that have the same effect on your blood sugar as a wook with a handful of noodles?

Oh, I meant that his brain received glucose from the whisky. The alcohol usually works to lower blood sugar post intake. I stopped drinking mainly because it was making me hypo after a few hours.

1. To all, I was merely saying that I consume (orally) less than 30 g of carbs a day, I do compute the totals ingested.
2. Whisky and vodka contain virtually zero carbs, wine ( red ) about 3-5 g per standard glass.
3. Like SamJB the booze does not raise my BG, normally has a beneficial effect which has to be observed when medicating.

RRB I did not say that I was not eating carbs, just less than 30 g.
ihar so you know more about my carb consumption than I do ? perhaps you would care to tell the assembled forumites where I am getting all these extra carbs.

All imvho Superchip

P.S hanadr makes some excellent points

pedant!

red blood CELLS have no nucleus. and more importantly, no mitochondria, they can only gain energy anaerobically using glucose

he stated catagorically, that he only consumed 30g carbs a day, which is probably wrong. (i say probably) i imagine its possible, but i seriously doubt it perhaps you could let me see a standard days menu? i would be impressed if you can manage such a diet long term at a healthy weight

now, 30g of starchy foods,(i hate that term) is certainly possible, but most foods do contain some level of carbs, veg, milk, even some meat, specifically liver, (see stupidly long list below)

ketones are a great source of energy, but only for about 70% of the brains needs (tops)

all carb amounts in grams

Granola, 1 ounce (1/4 cup) 18
Raisin Bran, 1 ounce (1/2 cup) 20
Shredded Wheat, 1 ounce (2/3 cup) 22
Grapenuts, 1 ounce (1/4 cup) 23
Oatmeal, 1 package 30
Fruits
Apple, medium 20
Orange, medium 20
Banana, medium 25
Pear, medium 25
Raisins, 15 ounce box (1/4 cup) 25
Apricots, 8 halves dried 30
Vegetables
Zucchini, 1/2 cup 4
Broccoli, 1 stalk (1/2 cup) 5
Green beans, 1/2 cup 7
Carrot, medium 10
Peas 1/2 cup 10
Tomato sauce, Ragu, 1/2 cup 10
Winter squash, 1/2 cup 15
Corn, 1/2 cup 18
Bread-Type Foods
Rice cake, 1 7
Graham crakers, 2 squares 10
Croissant, 1 Sara Lee 11
Saltines, 6 15
Waffle, 1 Eggo 17
English Muffin, 1 25
Matzo, 1 sheet 28
Panacakes, 2 (4 inch) 30
Pita bread, 8-inch round 44
Bagel, average (3 ounces) 45
Bran Muffin, 1 large 45
Submarine roll, 8 inch 60
Beverages
Gatorade, 8 ounces 10
Milk, 2%, 8 ounces 13
Beer, 12-ounce can 13
Milk, chocolate, 8 ounces 25
Orange juice, 8 ounces 25
Apple juice, 8 ounces 30
Apricott nectar, 8 ounces 35
Cranraspberry, 8 ounces 36
Cola, 12-ounce can 38
Grains, Pasta, Starches
Ramen noodles, 1/2 package 25
Rice, 1/4 cup dry; 1 cup cooked 35
Spaghetti, 2 ounces dry; 1 cup cooked 40
Lentils, 1 cup cooked 40
Baked beans, 1 cup 50
Baked Potato, 1 large 55
Entrees, Convenience Foods
Split pea soup, 1 bowl 35
Big Mac 40
Pizza, cheese, 2 slices 40
Chili, 1 cup 45
Bean Burrito, 1 50
Sweets, Desserts, Snacks
Oreo, 1 7
Chocolate chip cookie, 1 small 10
Fig Newton, 1 11
Strawberry jam, 1 tablespoon 13
Honey, 1 tablespoon 15
Maple Syrup, 2 tablespoons 25
Poptart, blueberry 35
Soft-serve ice cream, 1 cup 40
Fruit yogurt, 1 cup 40

SamJB said:

I put it down to the "Chinese Restaurant Effect"

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I went to a chinese restaurant in Pershore and was surprised to see that all the waitresses were near six footers.

Being unfamiliar with this chinese restaurant effect, I asked a mate, Tony the VAT Dodger, who owned a chinese restaurant until he had to flee HMRevenue and move back to Hong Kong. He told me that there were many very tall women in the north of China.

Oddly enough, wheat is grown in northern China and has been since about 1500 BC, but they make noodles and dumplings out of it.

I always thought that eskimos must be really thick to live in houses made of snow, eat raw seal liver and chew walrus fat. Now I understand that they are not thick just suffering from a carbohydrate deficiency

Hi minimimmimoo (heck of a username!),
Some people feel sluggish when switching to low carbing, I didn't though. I work in a fairly brain-taxing job, a lot of science, maths and software writing and haven't noticed any change in my cognitive function...my colleagues may say differently though!

I find with protein it takes 2-3 hours before I get a spike because of it, so I try to stick to smaller amounts of protein if possible or give myself an extra Novorapid dose 2 hours after eating.

I found to bulk-out my meals, I needed to increase the fat content or increase the volume of food. And yes, I reckon a steak salad would have the same affect on my levels as a small portion of noodles. Whether this requires any "training" of your body though, I don't know, so may not work first time. This Chinese Restaurant Effect (or whatever it is) is certainly something that I didn't experience whilst on carbs.

ilnar, I have around 40g of carbs per day and could easily get to 30g if I wanted to eat less, or be more selective...which I don't!

again, im not disputing your claims, agins, i would love to see what you eat over a given week,
and your level of activity consuming only that amount of glucose.

SamJB said:

As I understand it, your body is perfectly capable of creating it's own glucose.

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Gluconeogenesis is the means by which glucose is generated from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and odd-chain fatty acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

well, ihar, I have perused your american food listing, I should say that almost all do not apply to me.
and what the dickens is winter squash ? is that a vegetable ?

I eat lots of good quality meats and a limited quantity of above ground veg like brocolli and brussels ( under protest ! )
pork scratchings ( deep fried pig skin and fat ) as an occasional treat. Lots of cheeses, eggs (2 dozen a week at least )
Condiments - salt , black pepper, soy, all curry spices. I make my own stocks
Drinks wise, whisky,vodka and red wine in varying amounts based on mood, NO mixers other than soda water ( 0 carbs )
Single cream in coffee and tea.

If you require any more dietary details, feel free to ask. Exercise virtually nil other than a good walk.

Regards Superchip