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Low Carbs and Fibre

juliao

Member
Messages
12
Dear All

This is one of the main concerns for me.
We are told we should be aiming at 30g, (GDA is lower at 24g) of non digestable carbs a day, otherwise known as fibre, or non starch polysaccharide(NSP) below 20g is considered to be dangerous for extended periods of time; This amount of fibre(30g) has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease; and i read elsewhere diabetes also!!!

Frequently NSP and digestible carbs are linked in a food and it is only our digestive system that seperates them.

for example 100g of white bread would come in at about 70g carbohydrate whereas wholemeal/seeded breads come in as low as 37g carbs per 100g; the difference is a combination of other nutrients including fibre and fats. Also the GI of wholemeal/seeded bread is lower.

So it is healthier to change from white bread to wholemeal/seeded bread as yes you are reducing your carb intake but also adding fibre-which is essential to a healthy gut, and reducing GI also.
Many people have been converted to wholemeal bread/seeded bread without or before being diabetic so if bread is cut out completely(in an attempt to lower carb intake) and sufficient care is not taken about eating other foods then fibre is also greatly reduced.

very low non digestable carbohydrate(fibre) diets are dangerous for more than a short period of time because they upset the digestive system, people either become constipated putting great pressure of the movement of faeces through the intestines or they get diarrhoea and possible pain as the intestines pump fluid or nothing through. One possible result, diverticulitis, a very painful disease and on sufficient increase for my local GP to have a dedicated nurse specialist for it as well as diabetes!

Although I have used bread as an example it also applies to other starch foods such as rice, pasta (a wheat product), potatoes-(best eaten with their skins), etc. as so many of these have had fibre removed before they are packaged and sold for consumption.

Any extreme diet can be effective for a short period of time to reach a desired effect, but should not be sustained, it is nearly always important to aim for a healthy balanced maintenance diet, Coping with diabetes is hard enough without increasing the risks of other diet related illnesses.

So yes I do have a suitably sized jacket potato with a low fat, carb free topping. I do have a sandwich with similar type of filling I do have a small portion of new potatoes with their skin on but I rarely eat white rice or pasta; and seem to tolerate noodles better than pasta, not worked out why yet.

We know we need to get our Blood Glucose levels under control, because of the long term side effects uncontrolled diabetes has, however this should not be at the risk of increasing our chances of developing other equally devastating illnesses.

I hope this goes some way to explaining why I do not 'Low Carb' and do not recommend it for extended periods of time. I want to take care of 'ALL OF ME' . Currently I am aiming at 120g of digestible carbs a day- though some days it probably comes in at 150g. Although not considered 'LOW' as advocated by 'Low Carbers' it is between 80g and 110g lower than GDA of 230g

I have written this to aid understanding of ME, as it is what I know best, some of it may be useful to others but is by now ways meant as prescriptive.

Julia
 
Hello Julia,

Your post has been copied to the low-carb forum (with your original post remaining in the non-low-carb forum). This is so that the important points that you've raised about dietary fibre can be addressed in both forums.

Best regards,
timo.
 
Hi Julia,
LC diets are not not neccesarily low in Fibre as the link below shows. As for constipation I won't go into details but I have never been as regular in my life, pre LC I used to have Fybogel daily but now with the increased intake of of veg and the right fruits I have no problems.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrit ... counts.htm

Regards
Graham
 
Hi juliao
There is no dietary requirement for starch . You can get ALL the Glucose your brain needs from Gluconeogenesis and all the fibre from green leafy vegetables. As an extreme example, spinach contains almost nothing of nutritional value, but water and a little fibre.( and some minerals, but there's more iron in chocolate)
A diet heavy in starchy foods is an unbalanced diet. Although non-diabetics can handle it, it isn't good for them. It certainly isn't for diabetics.
A baked potato, with skin, is about 18% carb and 1.4% fibre. You'd do better to eat the skin and ditch the flesh.
 
Yet another example of a low carb myth!

I'm eating more fibre as a low carber than I ever did previously. Shame we seem to repeat this constantly yet I guess some people don't want to hear it! I'd rather eat a mound of cabbage than a small portion of potatoes!

I'm sure your intentions were good Timo, but I'm fed up of being told I am following an 'extreme' diet, just because I choose to replace nutrient sparse foods with nutrient dense foods. You'd have thought that would be a good thing to do, wouldn't you? Guess I'll just have to continue to be 'extreme' but for the life of me I can't see the big deal!

I've yet to be told what bread, potatoes, pasta etc have that I can't find elsewhere in much more diabetic friendly forms?

I won't hold my breath!
 
Hi Folks.

Just to clarify this, the Topic has been duplicated so that both low carbers and non low carbers can put their comments on in the relevant area. This is then visible to all.

If you are a non low carber, read, but do not post here.

Ken.
 
Trouble is Ken the finer points can't then be debated and misinformation abounds. On the other thread a 'comparison' is made between a 180g baked potato and 90g of spinach, surprise surprise the spinach has half the fibre (being half the portion size).
 
Hi Doczoc.

I think you have made your point. As for misinformation, it depends where you are actually coming from. I have read things on here at times which quite frankly make my toes curl !! Each to their own opinion. I know yours, you know mine, I know lot's of others opinions - just let people get on with it.

If there is something you dispute then as a low carber post it here. The non-low carbers are able to do the same in their own area. I cannot see that being a problem providing everybody keeps to Forum rules ?

It is still debate just with a bit of distance apart. Hopefully that will suffice.

Ken.
 
It's just a very unsatisfactory way for people to communicate though. Shame that people (on both sides) can't have a good debate without taking offense.
 
Doczoc
Do you really not miss baked potatoes? I do. I used to love them, with loads of butter or cream and crispy skins. However, I've given them up for my health's sake. that's not to say that if i were with my daughter, who eats the flesh and leaves the skins, that I mightn't take the Fibre off her plate.
Hana
 
Hi Doczoc,

It might be best to stick to discussing the points raised in the original post, rather than responding to replies made on the non-low-carb forum.

This thread could provide some interesting information, or it could descend into yet another slanging match. Remember, every question is a gift. Your answers are trying to reassure those who are already low-carbing and also sell the idea of low-carb to the those who are undecided. Leave the rest be.

Regards,
timo.
 
So what’s it to be, eat the carbs to get optimum fibre intake and lose control of BG levels, leading to increased dependency on medications, or follow the low carb route and maximize the available dietary fibre, while maintaining good BG levels thus avoiding the need for increased medications. :?:

Graham

Just for you Baked Potato lovers :shock:

http://potatopower.blogspot.com/
 
graham64 said:
So what’s it to be, eat the carbs to get optimum fibre intake and lose control of BG levels, leading to increased dependency on medications, or follow the low carb route and maximize the available dietary fibre, while maintaining good BG levels thus avoiding the need for increased medications. :?:

Graham

Just for you Baked Potato lovers :shock:

http://potatopower.blogspot.com/

Great Blog there by Chris Palmer, I never knew anyone could get so into Tubers! Is there a potato marketing board sponsoring it? hee hee
 
If you're worried try these:
Avocado, Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, Cabbage, Carrot, Aubergine, Greens -- collards, kale, turnip greens, Mushrooms, Peppers, Rhubarb, Spinach, Berries -- Blueberies, Blackberries, Raspberries, etc.
Nuts - almonds, pecans and macadamias, wipe the floor with bread pasta etc when it comes to fibre. No need for those nasty starchy carbs after all!

Remember too much fibre can prevent the absorption of minerals and vitamins. It can also reduce HDL as well as LDL.

I'm sceptical about these 'we must all eat x amount of fibre' proclamations, maybe if the high carb diet you're following is affecting your lipids then you might need to rely on fibre to flush out the bad stuff. My lipids have improved enormously under low carb, I'm not too concerned! :D :D :D :D

Just a thought, it's amazing how the human species managed to ever survive the millennia of winters without the abundance of fruit veg, pasta and bread????
 
I have noticed now that I have taken control of my diet, with no cravings; it tells me what it needs.

All these great amounts of processed/refined carbs the humans have been eating for the last 30/40 years has really ******** us up.
 
So it seems a 180g jacket potato is surprisingly high GI, most non insulin dependant T2s would beg to differ, its no surprise at all at 57g carbs and lets face it just how much fat would you need to cover 57g the mind boggles. The stock answer from the non LC members is to reduce portion size to combat the effect of carbs on BG levels, OK lets halve the size of the potato at 28.5g carbs that would still be to high for me, but if I did that anyway the fibre content would be reduced to 2.4g, as the carb count is already way beyond what my meter tells me is safe I would have to exclude other veg and also fruit thereby depriving myself of even more valuable nutrients, and have unacceptable BG levels to boot.

So what's it to be carbs and fibre and ever increasing medication leading most likely to insulin dependency, or LC and maybe a slight deficiency in fibre and reduced or no medications, for me there's only one sensible option.

For anyone worried about fibre a good source are nuts and seeds, I've just been snacking on a 60g pack of Macadamias fibre 3.2g carbs 2.8g much better than jacket potato don't you think.

After cereals, nuts are the vegetable foods that are richest in fibre, which may partly explain their benefit on the lipid profile and cardiovascular health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17125533

Graham
 
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