Low weight diabetic type 2 people

[onnecar]

Just wondering if anyone else is a low weight type 2 diabetic like myself. Apparently there is a nick name for this called TOFI - Thin on the outside fat on the inside. Dr Michael Mosley, who advocated the 5:2 fast diet has this issue and explains it in the 5:2 diet book. I have recently started this diet as I would like not only to reverse my diabetes, but to address the problem with my lipids and fat storage, which stores itself around the visceral organs rather than the hips thighs etc. My HDL levels are really low (This is the good cholesterol that is needed to sweep the arteries of fat). Could use some positive comments and moral support on this. Joined the 5:2 Fast Diet forum and posted similar thing about wanting to hear from other TOFIs and received some rather offensive replies, telling me that at 5'3" and 61 Kilos I did not need to lose weight and should be looking at other medical issues. Also I was accused of a lack of understanding of the process. All I wanted was to communicate with other like minded people. Hoping I'll have more success on here. It seems that if you are not overweight then you haven't got a problem according to some.

 

[AndBreathe]

Just wondering if anyone else is a low weight type 2 diabetic like myself. Apparently there is a nick name for this called TOFI - Thin on the outside fat on the inside. Dr Michael Mosley, who advocated the 5:2 fast diet has this issue and explains it in the 5:2 diet book. I have recently started this diet as I would like not only to reverse my diabetes, but to address the problem with my lipids and fat storage, which stores itself around the visceral organs rather than the hips thighs etc. My HDL levels are really low (This is the good cholesterol that is needed to sweep the arteries of fat). Could use some positive comments and moral support on this. Joined the 5:2 Fast Diet forum and posted similar thing about wanting to hear from other TOFIs and received some rather offensive replies, telling me that at 5'3" and 161 Kilos I did not need to lose weight and should be looking at other medical issues. Also I was accused of a lack of understanding of the process. All I wanted was to communicate with other like minded people. Hoping I'll have more success on here. It seems that if you are not overweight then you haven't got a problem according to some.

Onnecar - I refer you to the weight you stated in your original post as 161kg. Is that correct?

 

[Digger-i-doo]

Just wondering if anyone else is a low weight type 2 diabetic like myself. Apparently there is a nick name for this called TOFI - Thin on the outside fat on the inside. Dr Michael Mosley, who advocated the 5:2 fast diet has this issue and explains it in the 5:2 diet book. I have recently started this diet as I would like not only to reverse my diabetes, but to address the problem with my lipids and fat storage, which stores itself around the visceral organs rather than the hips thighs etc. My HDL levels are really low (This is the good cholesterol that is needed to sweep the arteries of fat). Could use some positive comments and moral support on this. Joined the 5:2 Fast Diet forum and posted similar thing about wanting to hear from other TOFIs and received some rather offensive replies, telling me that at 5'3" and 161 Kilos I did not need to lose weight and should be looking at other medical issues. Also I was accused of a lack of understanding of the process. All I wanted was to communicate with other like minded people. Hoping I'll have more success on here. It seems that if you are not overweight then you haven't got a problem according to some.

Hi there onnecar. Like AndBreathe, I suspect there's a typo with your stated weight.

But I can tell you that I'm pre diabetic, like my mother, and we're both low weight. I've always been slim and have become even more so since being diagnosed as pre diabetic last year. I lost almost 10 pounds by exercising more and going LCHF. Fortunately I've been able to maintain this and not lose any more, because I'll be heading into underweight territory if I do. So I'm not sure if I was ever fat on the inside exactly ... I blame my pre diabetes on genetics (thanks Mom!)

There are lots of people on this forum who have much more experience and depth of knowledge than I do, so maybe they can comment on the fasting approach. Personally, I think I'd have a hard time fasting. I like eating and look forward to chowing down on all the goodies I make. It pleases me that I can enjoy eating as much as I do, not go hungry, and still have respectable blood sugar readings.

In addition to the 5:2 approach, are you also considering dietary adjustments and a modified exercise regime? I'm still figuring all this out myself, but I try to regularly incorporate food to benefit HDL levels (olive oil, red wine, avocados, fish, nuts, red wine ...). My blood sugar readings are improved, and whatever fat was around my middle seems to be gone.

However you choose to go about it, take heart: you're not alone!

 

[onnecar]

Onnecar - I refer you to the weight you stated in your original post as 161kg. Is that correct?

No it's 61 kilos. I can't believe that I've mistyped it twice. I obviously have that figure in my head or hit the wrong key. I've altered it in the original comment and apologised to the people in the other forum as I mistyped it there too and had what I thought were strange and sarcastic replies. However they were obviously thinking that I was deluding myself thinking I was a low weight and wanted to bypass this issue in favour of blaming on an unfortunate distribution of fat. I'm 5' 3" and 61 kilos 134 lbs So sorry for any confusion. Have been busy so only just noticed second error and had time now to set record straight. Wondering if I should start the whole thing again lol.

 

[onnecar]

Hi there onnecar. Like AndBreathe, I suspect there's a typo with your stated weight.

But I can tell you that I'm pre diabetic, like my mother, and we're both low weight. I've always been slim and have become even more so since being diagnosed as pre diabetic last year. I lost almost 10 pounds by exercising more and going LCHF. Fortunately I've been able to maintain this and not lose any more, because I'll be heading into underweight territory if I do. So I'm not sure if I was ever fat on the inside exactly ... I blame my pre diabetes on genetics (thanks Mom!)

There are lots of people on this forum who have much more experience and depth of knowledge than I do, so maybe they can comment on the fasting approach. Personally, I think I'd have a hard time fasting. I like eating and look forward to chowing down on all the goodies I make. It pleases me that I can enjoy eating as much as I do, not go hungry, and still have respectable blood sugar readings.

In addition to the 5:2 approach, are you also considering dietary adjustments and a modified exercise regime? I'm still figuring all this out myself, but I try to regularly incorporate food to benefit HDL levels (olive oil, red wine, avocados, fish, nuts, red wine ...). My blood sugar readings are improved, and whatever fat was around my middle seems to be gone.

However you choose to go about it, take heart: you're not alone!

Thank you for the reply. Yes I am. My diet wasn't that bad as I don't eat meat but eat a lot of fish and pulses. Have made further changes cut out all processed food and gone to mostly wholefoods. I'm fairly fit but going to try to increase exercise. I've tried to take on board all the advice. It's not easy to find other low weight type 2 diabetics and the emphasis is usually on weight loss. I know that I'm a tofi because of my cholesterol levels I have highish cholesterol but very very low HDL levels. Also have blood pressure and thyroid so typical tofi or what used to be called metabolic syndrome.

 

[Digger-i-doo]

Thank you for the reply. Yes I am. My diet wasn't that bad as I don't eat meat but eat a lot of fish and pulses. Have made further changes cut out all processed food and gone to mostly wholefoods. I'm fairly fit but going to try to increase exercise. I've tried to take on board all the advice. It's not easy to find other low weight type 2 diabetics and the emphasis is usually on weight loss. I know that I'm a tofi because of my cholesterol levels I have highish cholesterol but very very low HDL levels. Also have blood pressure and thyroid so typical tofi or what used to be called metabolic syndrome.

Yeah I also don't eat meat but do eat fish. I was eating a lot of pulses for a while but have curbed it a bit since apparently they're also high in carbs. I've ditched most processed foods although I still buy this locally made "fake meat" stuff made with ... letsee ... mostly shitaake mushrooms. (I'm wary of the nutrition label since apparently the fibre is considerably higher than the carb level ... like the fibre more than cancels out the carbs. Is that even possible? Whatever. It's delicious and doesn't seem to spike me, so I'm eating it.)

From what I understand, weight loss is only part of the challenge when it comes to diabetes. Not all overweight people have diabetes, and not all diabetes patients are overweight. I used to eat rice and pasta by the trough-ful and thought I had it made because my jeans still fit. Now I've overhauled my diet and my jeans don't fit because they're all too big. I need to go shopping.

 

[onnecar]

Yeah I also don't eat meat but do eat fish. I was eating a lot of pulses for a while but have curbed it a bit since apparently they're also high in carbs. I've ditched most processed foods although I still buy this locally made "fake meat" stuff made with ... letsee ... mostly shitaake mushrooms. (I'm wary of the nutrition label since apparently the fibre is considerably higher than the carb level ... like the fibre more than cancels out the carbs. Is that even possible? Whatever. It's delicious and doesn't seem to spike me, so I'm eating it.)

From what I understand, weight loss is only part of the challenge when it comes to diabetes. Not all overweight people have diabetes, and not all diabetes patients are overweight. I used to eat rice and pasta by the trough-ful and thought I had it made because my jeans still fit. Now I've overhauled my diet and my jeans don't fit because they're all too big. I need to go shopping.

I am under the impression that GI level is more important than carb content. For instance wholemeal pasta is around the same as white in cals and carbs but the sugar releases into the body much more slowly so allows the body to produce insulin more easily in order to deal with it and therefore keeps glucose levels lower. It's about metabollism as well it would seem. I read all this in the 5:2 fast diet book, although I have come across it in other literature too. It is also true that everyone has their own personal tipping point and therefore thin people can become diabetic and fat people not always. Although obviously overweight people are on average at greater risk of developing the condition. My glucose levels improved dramatically when I did two things. A I stopped eating processed food and B I don't eat after 8pm. I'm normally a compulsive evening snacker.

 

[AndBreathe]

No it's 61 kilos. I can't believe that I've mistyped it twice. I obviously have that figure in my head or hit the wrong key. I've altered it in the original comment and apologised to the people in the other forum as I mistyped it there too and had what I thought were strange and sarcastic replies. However they were obviously thinking that I was deluding myself thinking I was a low weight and wanted to bypass this issue in favour of blaming on an unfortunate distribution of fat. I'm 5' 3" and 61 kilos 134 lbs So sorry for any confusion. Have been busy so only just noticed second error and had time now to set record straight. Wondering if I should start the whole thing again lol.

Is the 61kg before or after you lost the 10lbs?

 

[Daibell]

Hi. What was your last HBA1C and what medication if any are you on? Some of us diagnosed as T2 when slim are later found to be Late onset T1. Just keep going with a sensible lower-carb diet and keep an eye on your HBa1C if it increases. Ensure you have a meter and take readings 2 hours after typical meals every so often. If your blood sugar does increase then discuss options with the GP including Late onset T1 (LADA).

 

[Brunneria]

I am under the impression that GI level is more important than carb content. For instance wholemeal pasta is around the same as white in cals and carbs but the sugar releases into the body much more slowly so allows the body to produce insulin more easily in order to deal with it and therefore keeps glucose levels lower. It's about metabollism as well it would seem. I read all this in the 5:2 fast diet book, although I have come across it in other literature too. It is also true that everyone has their own personal tipping point and therefore thin people can become diabetic and fat people not always. Although obviously overweight people are on average at greater risk of developing the condition. My glucose levels improved dramatically when I did two things. A I stopped eating processed food and B I don't eat after 8pm. I'm normally a compulsive evening snacker.

The lowGI/L thing works for some of us - but not for others.
It comes down to our personal reactions, so we each need to test rigorously to find out which reaction we have. Think it mainly depends on the personal insulin response, and of course portion size.

For me (sadly) there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the bg reacton to 2 tablespoons of cooked white or brown bread or pasta or rice. I get silly-high blood glucose for both.
A great pity.

The other thing to bear in mind is that even if it takes half an hour longer for brown rice to dump its glucose into the bloodstream, it still gets there, just takes a bit longer to do so.

 

[onnecar]

Is the 61kg before or after you lost the 10lbs?

Only just started diet Anne so haven't weighed myself yet. This is my starting weight.

 

[onnecar]

Hi. What was your last HBA1C and what medication if any are you on? Some of us diagnosed as T2 when slim are later found to be Late onset T1. Just keep going with a sensible lower-carb diet and keep an eye on your HBa1C if it increases. Ensure you have a meter and take readings 2 hours after typical meals every so often. If your blood sugar does increase then discuss options with the GP including Late onset T1 (LADA).

The lowGI/L thing works for some of us - but not for others.
It comes down to our personal reactions, so we each need to test rigorously to find out which reaction we have. Think it mainly depends on the personal insulin response, and of course portion size.

For me (sadly) there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the bg reacton to 2 tablespoons of cooked white or brown bread or pasta or rice. I get silly-high blood glucose for both.
A great pity.

The other thing to bear in mind is that even if it takes half an hour longer for brown rice to dump its glucose into the bloodstream, it still gets there, just takes a bit longer to do so.

That's a shame as it helped a lot with me and I felt much better too generally.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Yes it is whatever works for us personally so if you have found the way that suits you and you say your BG levels improved and you felt better then that is good

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Apparently there is a nick name for this called TOFI

Lucky?

Thin on the outside fat on the inside.

Not so lucky!

 

[AndBreathe]

Only just started diet Anne so haven't weighed myself yet. This is my starting weight.

Thanks for clarifying.

Whilst your height weight ratio put you just into the "healthy" BMI range, I couldn't call you low weight. Low weight, to me would be skirting the lower edges of the BMI spectrum (for what it's worth), or going into the underweight category.

I wasn't particularly heavy when I started all of this, and through some trimming up on my luuuurve handles, I seem to have had a pretty good outcome. My stats are in my signature.

I have ended up extremely trim, at 160cm (5' 3") and 47kg (7st 4lbs), with decent muscle percentage, low body fat and low visceral fat. I use a Karada Scan set of scales to track my composition.

Whilst trimming up is certainly advantageous in ,anaging/fighting/resolving/curing* (choose your descriptor of choice), there are so many other factors involved too; from the underlying state of the pancreatic beta cells, to remaining insulin resistance, to ongoing eating patterns and a big dollop of genetics. Not everyone can manage a great outcome, so I would urge you to set your goals around long-term managing your condition not the silver bullet "perfect" outcome.

My personal goals were always non-diabetic blood ranges. Nothing else. I didn't set myself a trimming up goal, that happened along the way. My thinking was if I achieved non-diabetic, or as close to non-diabetic bloods as I could manage then I would be in a better place than my starting point. If my goal were focused on trimming up, I could end up slimmer but no healthier, which would have been dispiriting and leave me with a new mountain to climb.

Along the way, my whole metabolic syndrome markers improved - blood glucose, weight, lipid profiles, blood pressure, but most important to me were my bloods.

Good luck with it all.

 

[onnecar]

Onnecar - I refer you to the weight you stated in your original post as 161kg. Is that correct?

No it should be 61 kgs Anne

 

[onnecar]

Hi. What was your last HBA1C and what medication if any are you on? Some of us diagnosed as T2 when slim are later found to be Late onset T1. Just keep going with a sensible lower-carb diet and keep an eye on your HBa1C if it increases. Ensure you have a meter and take readings 2 hours after typical meals every so often. If your blood sugar does increase then discuss options with the GP including Late onset T1 (LADA).

Thanks for clarifying.

Whilst your height weight ratio put you just into the "healthy" BMI range, I couldn't call you low weight. Low weight, to me would be skirting the lower edges of the BMI spectrum (for what it's worth), or going into the underweight category.

I wasn't particularly heavy when I started all of this, and through some trimming up on my luuuurve handles, I seem to have had a pretty good outcome. My stats are in my signature.

I have ended up extremely trim, at 160cm (5' 3") and 47kg (7st 4lbs), with decent muscle percentage, low body fat and low visceral fat. I use a Karada Scan set of scales to track my composition.

Whilst trimming up is certainly advantageous in ,anaging/fighting/resolving/curing* (choose your descriptor of choice), there are so many other factors involved too; from the underlying state of the pancreatic beta cells, to remaining insulin resistance, to ongoing eating patterns and a big dollop of genetics. Not everyone can manage a great outcome, so I would urge you to set your goals around long-term managing your condition not the silver bullet "perfect" outcome.

My personal goals were always non-diabetic blood ranges. Nothing else. I didn't set myself a trimming up goal, that happened along the way. My thinking was if I achieved non-diabetic, or as close to non-diabetic bloods as I could manage then I would be in a better place than my starting point. If my goal were focused on trimming up, I could end up slimmer but no healthier, which would have been dispiriting and leave me with a new mountain to climb.

Along the way, my whole metabolic syndrome markers improved - blood glucose, weight, lipid profiles, blood pressure, but most important to me were my bloods. That is very encouraging thank you

Good luck with it all.

 

[onnecar]

Yes I agree Anne although most people who know me would call me slim and it's the umbrella term which the diabetic team use to separate non - obese people from those that are significantly overweight. I know what you mean though. However being of a lower weight leaves less leeway for weight loss and I personally feel it can make things more difficult in some ways. But certainly I can lose more weight and do more exercise and continue to adjust my diet. It is the fasting that I am most interested in as I have a gut feeling that this is going to be the key for me. I just hope I'm right. I can always go to 6.1 maintenance if I lose to much. What frustrates me sometimes is that often people see a relatively slim me and cannot understand why I'm diabetic and why I'm needingto diet at all. I look fine on the outside. I am thinking that those in the same situation as me might be more empathetic about this. Thanks.

 

[Brunneria]

Who is Anne?

Worth remembering that the older we get the lower our personal fat threshold (the thing that makes us get fatty livers and sometimes develop T2) often becomes. Muscle mass and fitness levels often diminish with time, while fat deposits shift in distribution. Often, with middle age, we get apple shaped and our once muscular limbs get less muscly and more... um... stringy.

Subcutaneous fat (the thing that makes you look slim, or not slim) is irrelevant to the personal fat threshold, so it is perfectly possible that you may need to slim down to a BMI of 19 or below, in order to get below your liver's personal fat threshold. Or that you may never get below it. We have had a number of people post on here with MUCH lower BMIs than you who have not achieved it.

Plus of course there are a significant number of T2s who do NOT have diabetes because they have exceeded their personal fat thresholds. There are many other reasons why T2 develops.

I guess we all have to factor these things in.

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes I agree Anne although most people who know me would call me slim and it's the umbrella term which the diabetic team use to separate non - obese people from those that are significantly overweight. I know what you mean though. However being of a lower weight leaves less leeway for weight loss and I personally feel it can make things more difficult in some ways. But certainly I can lose more weight and do more exercise and continue to adjust my diet. It is the fasting that I am most interested in as I have a gut feeling that this is going to be the key for me. I just hope I'm right. I can always go to 6.1 maintenance if I lose to much. What frustrates me sometimes is that often people see a relatively slim me and cannot understand why I'm diabetic and why I'm needingto diet at all. I look fine on the outside. I am thinking that those in the same situation as me might be more empathetic about this. Thanks.

I just wanted to clarify a couple of points, then I'll leave you to it.

I don't know whether you are misreading my forum name at all, but I'm not called Anne. I'm not Anne in the big bad world either. It matters not a jot, but I'm easily enough confused as it is.

Secondly, I'm not suggesting you are overweight, but when I say you're just in the healthy weight range (according to NHS BMI cals) , I meant at the upper end; not the lower. I took your declared weight from your profile page.

Based upon that calculation, you have 13.6kg leeway, before you dip into the underweight territory. I'd say 13.6kg or 2st or 30lbs, however you want to look at it.

I'm not suggesting you want to starve yourself, or that you go lower than you want to, just clarifying the parameters to encourage you to have a think.

If you are interested in fasting, there are a number of ways folks approach that; whether it be 5:2, 6:1, or even 14:10 (or other numbers), which refers to a controlled eating window in the 24 hour day cycle - usually either starting to eat late or finishing earlier in the evening.

There are almost as many ways of tackling this condition as there are folks on the forum, as we'll all live our lives a bit differently, but I would urge you to "park" all your mental barriers for a while and see where things take you.