Lower protein= lower weight

[Kristin251]

so I removed my one measly ounce of protein at bf and not only do I now require 150% less insulin but I lost 2.5 pounds in one week. I also made sure to not eat more than 15g at dinner or my fastings would be much higher. In doing that I had to reduce lantus from 2 units to 1 and with additional dinner protein my fastings would be higher even with two units.

The only other thing I changed is added another half an avocado.

This just to say if some are struggling with desired weight loss, protein might be something to look at.
As I recall 7 years ago I reduced protein and lost weight then as well but I was way over eating it.

 

[Dearbhla]

A dietician had told me she recommends people eat a large matchbox worth of proteins per day, unless they're doing sports training.

 

[ickihun]

I always do. I love protein. Just bought protein loaf to replace any temptation of white.
When very low carbing I get cravings for protein. I am on insulin like you. Carbs get covered well by my large amounts of insulin, but protein also causes me high levels of insulin need. Unless I use the supplement r-ala.
I believe my protein gets converted better on r-ala, hence needing less insulin.

 

[Kristin251]

A dietician had told me she recommends people eat a large matchbox worth of proteins per day, unless they're doing sports training.

Yes, protein requirements are usually much less than people are eating. It's said 4-6 oz is enough for MOST adults.

I always do. I love protein. Just bought protein loaf to replace any temptation of white.
When very low carbing I get cravings for protein. I am on insulin like you. Carbs get covered well by my large amounts of insulin, but protein also causes me high levels of insulin need. Unless I use the supplement r-ala.
I believe my protein gets converted better on r-ala, hence needing less insulin.

I love protein too. Of all kinds. However if I want to keep my insulin doses low I need to keep it small. It seems anything more than 2 oz continues to show up well after my insulin is gone so I'd have to split boluses and I'm not up for that right now.

It's just odd that when I ate my avocado and one measly ounce I needed 3 insulin doses. First two were 1 unit and last one was 1/2. Now 1/2 with avocado and half an hour or so later. No need for the third.

Avocado stops all my cravings. Except for more avocado haha

What's r- ala?

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Sorry Kristin but none of this adds up. I believe that you need less insulin on a low-carb diet and as a result of a restricted protein intake, but 1 unit of basal is effectively useless. There's simply no way you can claim to need 150% less insulin with insulin needs that low.

Even if Lantus had a completely flat 24-hr absorption profile (which we know it does not), that would be an absorption rate of .04u/hr. In comparison, most insulin pumps can't dose lower than .05units.

I'd love to say that the human body works as efficiently as you claim yours does, but we all know that not to be true (which is why we're here on this forum).

 

[Kristin251]

Sorry Kristin but none of this adds up. I believe that you need less insulin on a low-carb diet and as a result of a restricted protein intake, but 1 unit of basal is effectively useless. There's simply no way you can claim to need 150% less insulin with insulin needs that low.

Even if Lantus had a completely flat 24-hr absorption profile (which we know it does not), that would be an absorption rate of .04u/hr. In comparison, most insulin pumps can't dose lower than .05units.

I'd love to say that the human body works as efficiently as you claim yours does, but we all know that not to be true (which is why we're here on this forum).

I am not 'claiming ' anything. Simply stating what happened. Again.
With 1 oz protein I was taking 1 unit with food. 1 unit an hour later and a half unit 2 hours after that. Now I take 1/2 unit with food ( just removed protein) and half unit an hour and a half later. So 2.5 units vs 1.
Lantus I was taking 2 and eating 20 G protein. I would go up about 10 points by fasting. Now I'm eating 15 g and taking one unit and I'm waking up about 5-10 lower. Whether this 'adds up' or not it IS what's happening.
I realize one unit is ridiculously low but if I don't take it I wake up 40 points higher so it is required and it does keep me flat so I wouldn't call it useless.

And obviously my low doses are due to my vlc, moderate protein and lower calorie diet. It just amazed me how much an ounce of protein at bf made such a difference. Although half of protein can be converted to bs and in the morning I am very insulin resistant.

And I never claimed, nor would that my body works efficiently. I would claim my DIET works efficiently.

So claim , add up or useless, it is what it is. Thank though.

 

[ickihun]

Everyone is different.
Different weight and muscle mass for a start.

I like @Kristin251 's observations. It makes me realise how effective diet can be. Obviously to individual need but protein has always be my Trojan horse.
I thought healthy and harmless but I'm still very over weight and lose NO weight on lchf diet, unlike many. Protein seems to have been my downfall.
Although fatty liver hates a high protein diet. For me @TorqPenderloin .
Carbs I can reduce, no problem but ask me to reduce protein and I want to cry!

 

[Kristin251]

Everyone is different.
Different weight and muscle mass for a start.

I like @Kristin251 's observations. It makes me realise how effective diet can be. Obviously to individual need but protein has always be my Trojan horse.
I thought healthy and harmless but I'm still very over weight and lose NO weight on lchf diet, unlike many. Protein seems to have been my downfall.
Although fatty liver hates a high protein diet. For me @TorqPenderloin .
Carbs I can reduce, no problem but ask me to reduce protein and I want to cry!

Thank @ickihun ! I was the same way. I lived on chicken turkey and egg salad, or big fat burgers. Don't get me wrong, I still love them but just eat small amounts. Reducing protein was much easier than I thought. Although as I always say avocado became my Trojan horse.

Furthermore @TorqPenderloin , many say an egg bf will requires just as much insulin as porridge. Wonder what would happen if they are a fat rich bf like bulletproof coffee or avocado. So many say BPC made a huge difference stopping a rise. Again, we are most insulin resistant in the morning so it makes sense that even protein would cause a bigger rise at that time of day albeit slower.

I am in no way implying anyone should change their diet but personal experiences of others helped me understand a load of bs and insulin nuances and I am very grateful to them.

I also realize not many people would eat my diet but I love every bite of it so no hardship for me.

 

[ickihun]

Do you think fatty protein better or not really?
Just since I've stopped cheese, nuts and cream I've lost 7kgs. Not sure if the fat or the protein has caused the loss?

 

[Kristin251]

Do you think fatty protein better or not really?
Just since I've stopped cheese, nuts and cream I've lost 7kgs. Not sure if the fat or the protein has caused the loss?

Well for one all dairy makes me gain. Too many nuts as well and saturated fat. So um, yup probably the type of fat.

I eat mostly lean protein. I do mix white and dark turkey and chicken but never the skin and never cooked in butter. I do eat lamb and red meat but I buy lean cuts and cut visible fat. I eat a lot of fish. It is said that saturated fat is the hardest to burn as well as it is the type of fat on our bodies. I do know saturated fat effects my weight and requires more insulin than mono fats. The majority of my fats are avocado( of course) mayo, olive oil and a few nuts occasionally now. I was eating them everyday but I think I became intolerant. It's happened before. Nuts come into the diet and then leave. For ME, dairy, nuts and saturated fats keep my bs higher longer than mono fats. They also keep my weight higher. Don't get me wrong, I do eat butter OCCASIONALLY in small amounts. I do have slider sized burgers occasionally as well.

The fact you lost shows that those foods are weight stallers.

How much protein do you eat a day? Do you eat it in the morning? Think you could try tweaking it for a week and see what happens. Still eat it but smaller portions and only at two meals. Just as a test? I wonder if it would help some of your other issues. Might be worth a try.

 

[AndBreathe]

so I removed my one measly ounce of protein at bf and not only do I now require 150% less insulin but I lost 2.5 pounds in one week. I also made sure to not eat more than 15g at dinner or my fastings would be much higher. In doing that I had to reduce lantus from 2 units to 1 and with additional dinner protein my fastings would be higher even with two units.

The only other thing I changed is added another half an avocado.

This just to say if some are struggling with desired weight loss, protein might be something to look at.
As I recall 7 years ago I reduced protein and lost weight then as well but I was way over eating it.

Kristin, from what I recall from your photograph, when you had it on display, you really didn't look like you had 2.5lbs to lose. What is your strategy for regaining it?

 

[ickihun]

Well for one all dairy makes me gain. Too many nuts as well and saturated fat. So um, yup probably the type of fat.

I eat mostly lean protein. I do mix white and dark turkey and chicken but never the skin and never cooked in butter. I do eat lamb and red meat but I buy lean cuts and cut visible fat. I eat a lot of fish. It is said that saturated fat is the hardest to burn as well as it is the type of fat on our bodies. I do know saturated fat effects my weight and requires more insulin than mono fats. The majority of my fats are avocado( of course) mayo, olive oil and a few nuts occasionally now. I was eating them everyday but I think I became intolerant. It's happened before. Nuts come into the diet and then leave. For ME, dairy, nuts and saturated fats keep my bs higher longer than mono fats. They also keep my weight higher. Don't get me wrong, I do eat butter OCCASIONALLY in small amounts. I do have slider sized burgers occasionally as well.

The fact you lost shows that those foods are weight stallers.

How much protein do you eat a day? Do you eat it in the morning? Think you could try tweaking it for a week and see what happens. Still eat it but smaller portions and only at two meals. Just as a test? I wonder if it would help some of your other issues. Might be worth a try.

I'm feeling lost as financially I have to feed hubby and kids too without taking too much from the family income for just me.
I think I will just consciencesly reduce protein levels for a month and see what happens.
I'll let you know.
I'm keeping away from putting myself under too much extra pressure at mo.
Softly, softly catch thee monkey, hopefully!

 

[Kristin251]

Kristin, from what I recall from your photograph, when you had it on display, you really didn't look like you had 2.5lbs to lose. What is your strategy for regaining it?

Im not trying to lose weight but the best part of this is it came off my abdomen. I never thought I felt bloated but my stomach is much flatter. 120 has been a nutural weight for me for many many years so I'm hopping it's just a little inflammation weight and that it will stop there. It usually comes off my arms and legs which I do not need to lose. So I'm happy it's off my stomach only. I also feel more energetic.
I have been eating a SMALL piece of cheese lately but dairy is not my friend. I certainly cannot do any liquidy or soft cheese like cottage cheese, sour cream, cream cheese or cream. Tummy rumbles immediately. Strangely brie and baked cheese are not bothering me in the least. I've also added another half an avocado. I'll figure it out when the time comes I guess. I'm paying attention to the scale, energy and muscles. As I said, very happy it came off my tummy!! To me that says something wasn't right and we all know visceral fat is not good fat.

 

[Kristin251]

Oops. Trojan horse was opposite. Avocado is rocket fuel!!!

 

[neer]

On the other hand, Proteins are working GREAT for me, causing very little blood sugar spikes (like <100 mg/dl ; 2 hrs after meal). otherwise it's just a nightmare.

 

[Kristin251]

On the other hand, Proteins are working GREAT for me, causing very little blood sugar spikes (like <100 mg/dl ; 2 hrs after meal). otherwise it's just a nightmare.

I think it effects insulin users more than non insulin users. It does spike insulin almost as much as carbs but if you produce insulin or have a good phase two response you could be good to go !!

And for me proteins show up much later than two hours but as a LADA I of course have no phase 2 response hence the rise later. Insulin is gone by then

 

[azure]

Protein only raises blood sugar in Type 1s in the absence of carbs or if large amounts are eaten. As most Type 1s eat moderate carbs, protein isn't usually an issue. Only in certain circumstances does it become so.

Eating sufficient carbs can actually make control easier for Type 1s.

@Kristin251 If you're losing weight that quickly that's worrying. Perhaps your insulin doses also need a re-examination too if you're having to limit your macros and calorie intake so much to get good control. I found a similar thing happened to me some time after diagnosis as my own insulin production petered out. It initially looked like I was 'overeating' because my sugars got higher and this was frustrating and upsetting, but in fact it was just my body needing more insulin and a tweaking of my doses.

 

[ickihun]

Don't lose any more @Kristin251 . Please. I appreciate your guidance thou. You're my guru.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I am not 'claiming ' anything. Simply stating what happened. Again.
With 1 oz protein I was taking 1 unit with food. 1 unit an hour later and a half unit 2 hours after that. Now I take 1/2 unit with food ( just removed protein) and half unit an hour and a half later. So 2.5 units vs 1.
Lantus I was taking 2 and eating 20 G protein. I would go up about 10 points by fasting. Now I'm eating 15 g and taking one unit and I'm waking up about 5-10 lower. Whether this 'adds up' or not it IS what's happening.
I realize one unit is ridiculously low but if I don't take it I wake up 40 points higher so it is required and it does keep me flat so I wouldn't call it useless.

And obviously my low doses are due to my vlc, moderate protein and lower calorie diet. It just amazed me how much an ounce of protein at bf made such a difference. Although half of protein can be converted to bs and in the morning I am very insulin resistant.

And I never claimed, nor would that my body works efficiently. I would claim my DIET works efficiently.

So claim , add up or useless, it is what it is. Thank though.

Semantics. As far as I'm concerned " I need 150% less insulin" is a claim.

I'm not denying that you need less bonus insulin by limiting your protein intake. In fact, I'd actually support what you're saying for the most part on that subject.

My skepticism is around the fact that your basal absorption rates are so low it would be impossible to accurately dose with a pen (you would have to be on a pump to get any sort of accuracy).

As far as your quote "Many say an egg bf will require just as much insulin as porridge," I'd very much like to see any sort of evidence to support that.

Many t1ds have inhibited alpha cell function which can cause issues with their ability to regulate glucagon. With that in mind, I could agree with SOME of what you're saying. Note: very few t2ds have inhibited glucagon function. It's my understanding that that's why protein usually had a different effect on them.

Side note: I've noticed you use different units of measurement on occasion and mentioned "1oz of protein." That's a considerable reduction as 1oz=~28.35 grams.

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks for your concern but it's only 2 pounds. A glass of water weighs 2 pounds.
The only change I made was to take out an ounce of protein at bf and add more avocado. If anything I raised my calories and fat. It's obviously some morning phenomenon thing. Nothing else changed. I'm eating plenty of food and I'm not hungry or starving myself. Something just shifted for some reason. Could be the additional fat. I am eating the same amount of protein, I just added it to my lunch which I make after I eat bf and when I take my second half unit I have a big bite. It just a different time of day.
I remember years before type1 DX that I always felt lousy with protein at bf. I'd either have a handful of nuts or a big bowl of kale salad or I'd want a nap.
I almost feel like something broke free and I'm running on all cylinders now. Sometimes a tweak makes all the difference. The biggest thing I see is the flatter stomach. Something changed there. And coincidentally the scale was up a bit today. Weight fluctuating is very normal, especially around hormone time which i never know when that is as I'm post mono but still get the hormone hair on my chin and some other weird things ( like chocolate, cheese and Guinness foam cravings lol).

Mornings were always a b***er for me. I always felt like I was crawling out of my skin an now that is gone too. I always felt like my bs and insulin were bickering and fighting each other even when bs stayed flat. I'd get blurry eyes, jittery etc and that's all gone. Apparently I just don't do well with protein at bf. Maybe it's some glucagon thing, who knows but I see No reason I can't save it for later in the day. Many people don't eat it at bf, or any bf at all for that matter. Personally I like food too much to skip any meal and I snack all day long. Just on fat though.
Before I had any kind of nutritional brain I lived on frozen Lean Cuisine and Weight Watchers meals. I e never needed high calories. In fact too much food makes me feel aweful.

I really do appreciate your concern but the days of me being skin and bones is over. I will never go back there again. But I love not feeling like I look like I'm 9 months pregnant and all from just a little tweak.

Thanks @ickihun !!!! You're the best