Metformin

[Outlier]

I have cut my Metformin dose by half (500 instead of 1000 per day) and definitely feel hungrier but not anything like the ravenous hunger I have experienced in the past when eating "healthy" carbs. I'll be cutting out the remaining Metformin pill after my next HbA1c test at the end of April. My bloods have been in the non-diabetic readings since October, a month after diagnosis, but Nursie won't accept the finger-prick tests, only the Hb-etc figures which include the time I was forced to eat a high-carb hospital diet.

 

[Erin]

Hi @Chrisjr72
For me metformin came with very unpleasant side effects and made no appreciable difference to my levels. For some it can be useful, helping with insulin resistance and liver dumps amongst other things. But by far the most effective way to get your levels down it diet. Keep carbs as low as you can and base your meals around protein and good fats. Meat ,fish, dairy, eggs and leafy greens and salad's.

What's a liver dump?

 

[JohnEGreen]

What's a liver dump?

When your liver releases glucose into your system in response to a perceived need for extra energy.

 

[Erin]

When your liver releases glucose into your system in response to a perceived need for extra energy.

Thanks; so that raises your blood sugar reading, I guess.

 

[XpatJock]

My wife is on Metformin and keeping to a strict low carb diet. (Cut out Wheat, sugary foods (including honey etc). Blood sugar still tends to around 7 mmol in the morning and she also suffers from neuropathic pain. Doc switched to slow release metformin and prescriobed amitriptyline for the pain. No effect. Still kept awake all night.

Trying for new appt with GP to request alternate medication as with/without metformin makes no difference to Glucose levels at the moment

We

 

[JayAmerican]

Never used it. Diet worked for me.

Same here. I have yet to try it. I don't even know how it works, I guess it's supposed to somehow increase insulin-sensitivity and liver dumps but the way I'm thinking is: If you're having liver dumps in the first place or have a bad diet, a drug will just hide bad habits and 2-3 years later your dosage is upped as you get fatter. Then upped again 2-3 years later. Then you have to shoot up with insulin. Then your body starts depending on all this external stuff to keep you from dangerous blood sugar levels.

I would only go on metformin once my diet is fully under control, reversed a fatty liver, I am consistently below pre-diabetic A1C levels, and want to occasionally eat "healthy" stuff more often that tend to spike like apples, apricots, mangos and not eat so much meats and dairy which carry their own risks (high cholesterol, heart health, cancer risks).

 

[JayAmerican]

My wife is on Metformin and keeping to a strict low carb diet. (Cut out Wheat, sugary foods (including honey etc). Blood sugar still tends to around 7 mmol in the morning and she also suffers from neuropathic pain. Doc switched to slow release metformin and prescriobed amitriptyline for the pain. No effect. Still kept awake all night.

Trying for new appt with GP to request alternate medication as with/without metformin makes no difference to Glucose levels at the moment

We

Other than foods she has cut, is she tracking actual net carb intake? It's not just simply stopping eating of sugary foods, but watching literally everything being eaten, reading food labels, and paying attention to true net carbs. Body activity, like daily cardio, can also burn off glucose stored as fat around the liver to help reduce ever-present high levels.

 

[KennyA]

Same here. I have yet to try it. I don't even know how it works, I guess it's supposed to somehow increase insulin-sensitivity and liver dumps but the way I'm thinking is: If you're having liver dumps in the first place or have a bad diet, a drug will just hide bad habits and 2-3 years later your dosage is upped as you get fatter. Then upped again 2-3 years later. Then you have to shoot up with insulin. Then your body starts depending on all this external stuff to keep you from dangerous blood sugar levels.

I would only go on metformin once my diet is fully under control, reversed a fatty liver, I am consistently below pre-diabetic A1C levels, and want to occasionally eat "healthy" stuff more often that tend to spike like apples, apricots, mangos and not eat so much meats and dairy which carry their own risks (high cholesterol, heart health, cancer risks).

According to Bilous and Donnelly, the method by which Metformin works is not fully understood. Why do you think meat and dairy carries a health risk?

 

[JayAmerican]

According to Bilous and Donnelly, the method by which Metformin works is not fully understood. Why do you think meat and dairy carries a health risk?

I don't personally, I have only read correlations that red meat and casein in milk and dairy products increase risk of cancer. BUT I know that cancer tens to be triggered based at least sometimes on antigen responses, so I think it's just a broad correlation. It probably matters more what type of meats (and how lean they are), what type of dairy, and how much of the diet they make up. It's sort of like the bad oils and good oils. Too many foods which are considered "healthy" by traditional standards that use oil are based on oils made of of saturated fats.

 

[KennyA]

I don't personally, I have only read correlations that red meat and casein in milk and dairy products increase risk of cancer. BUT I know that cancer tens to be triggered based at least sometimes on antigen responses, so I think it's just a broad correlation. It probably matters more what type of meats (and how lean they are), what type of dairy, and how much of the diet they make up. It's sort of like the bad oils and good oils. Too many foods which are considered "healthy" by traditional standards that use oil are based on oils made of of saturated fats.

Hmm. Many of us here base almost all of our food on traditional meat and dairy. I also take a lot of the "x causes cancer" claims with a huge pinch of salt, particularly if it's a only a media account. If you can find it, Dr Verner Wheelock's book "Healthy Eating - The Big Mistake" is a good read. There are others. This is a fun read, too. https://gizmodo.com/i-fooled-millio...VwpZisP9xenWePHPmwLYwcIalDOrxa2wtklrtlZD50DGM

 

[Estragon]

I’ve come down from 89 HBA1C to a controlled 46 HBA1C. This has been a result of a combination of doubling my Metformin and a growing adherence to LCHF. I’ve now learnt I can slip away from LCHF towards a more LCLF. For me, I’ve learnt to be aware of what my body and mind can tolerate. The HF has slightly “messed” with my Cholesterol, not alarmingly, but there is a warning. I’ve learnt that FH, for me, isn’t an answer for all my requirements. And yes, I still love eggs and bacon and a ribeye steak!

 

[XpatJock]

Other than foods she has cut, is she tracking actual net carb intake? It's not just simply stopping eating of sugary foods, but watching literally everything being eaten, reading food labels, and paying attention to true net carbs. Body activity, like daily cardio, can also burn off glucose stored as fat around the liver to help reduce ever-present high levels.

She does her best to minimise carbs. Have to be careful with diet alternatives though as she also has to watch her fat intake. She had gall bladder removed last April and that in combination with the diabetes, Hashimoto's and some food I tolerances sort of limits things. A lot of her favourite food items are off the plate.
Also, she has never been one for processed foods or snacks