More Support, less Advice for Newbies

[lucylocket61]

Damned if I do, damned if i dont. No, I dont feel good about any of this and I am surprised by the nastiness of some of the responses to such a thread.

Just forget I said anything. Mods, please delete my profile, I've had enough.

 

[Boo1979]

It's called advice, nobody has to follow it. This is a forum, the nature of forums is that everybody will post what they want within the rules and the onus is on the reader.

I wasn't confused, dazed, alone and worried when I came here, I was fired up, excited and raring to take control and within 24 hours, I did. Back then, low carbers would die of scurvy and malnutrition to name but a few, the advice given by some has now proved to be not only based on dogma but dangerous.

Verbally patting people on the head and declaring 'there there' helps nobody.

You cannot assume that everyone else is the same as you / is in the same mindset / with the same needs etc etc even if they have the same diagnosis. Self referrential advice will only ever sometimes be appropriate

 

[woodywhippet61]

I completely agree with your last paragraph. It has affected me like that, too - but to the point when I don't post much at all any more. This forum used to be my 'safe place' where everyone pulled together but, sadly, that is no longer the case.

Your posts were some of the ones that I read. Yours were ones that helped me. I have sadly watched posters (on my they are worth reading list) leave. If enough of you go or stop posting then I will go too.

When I came on here I introduced myself and then I found a couple of posters who wrote in a style that I liked or who gave advice that I decided made sense and that I would follow or who wrote interesting posts and those I reserved for later. (In the past few months I've added to that list.)

I gathered my information, analysed it, acted on it and now I'm information gathering again, because I've done my 3 months experiment and now I need to think about the rest of my life. At some point my approach might stop working (I know this thanks to forum posters) so I'll have to start information gathering again.

 

[urbanracer]

Damned if I do, damned if i dont. No, I dont feel good about any of this and I am surprised by the nastiness of some of the responses to such a thread.

Just forget I said anything. Mods, please delete my profile, I've had enough.

Hi @lucylocket61 , where you going, this is an important discussion about the 'feel' of the forum. It's good that you started it.

 

[woodywhippet61]

You've started a good topic for discussion. Opinions are like... Everyone has one, hey! Don't take it to heart.

It is a good topic for discussion but it's a very 'hard' topic and it will cause people to react emotionally.

I needed the advice on testing and diet right from the start. If I hadn't got that from here and I'd have followed the advice given me by my HCP's I'd have been in a dreadful place.

If I come on here and read someone saying that I shouldn't have been given that help on this forum (at the beginning) I am going to react emotionally and passionately.

As a first time poster if I'd have just got there, there don't worry or welcome to the forum and there, there don't worry have a hug. I would not have come back. BUT for others that might be just what they need.

 

[Boo1979]

It is a good topic for discussion but it's a very 'hard' topic and it will cause people to react emotionally.

I needed the advice on testing and diet right from the start. If I hadn't got that from here and I'd have followed the advice given me by my HCP's I'd have been in a dreadful place.

If I come on here and read someone saying that I shouldn't have been given that help on this forum I am going to react emotionally and passionately.

As a first time poster if I'd have just got there, there don't worry or welcome to the forum and there, there don't worry have a hug. I would not have come back. BUT for others that might be just what they need.

Presumably though, if youd just been given the advice to test and followed it for a week , you'd have very soon seen the flaws in the HCP advice by your BG results so would have been back for further advice - some people need to hear test and assimilate advice / info step by step in order to see whether / where it is relevant to them and their situation

 

[wiflib]

I am not aware that I am trying to stop anyone posting anything. I am expressing my view. You are expressing your view. I may be misunderstanding you, but the post I have quoted feels to me like you are telling me to shut up.

That's the nature of posts though isn't it Lucy, which is why we have to take responsibilty over what we read as much as what we write and how it interprets. Forums are fiery things, full of disagreements and all sorts of opinions which we as adults, should discuss.

 

[wiflib]

Damned if I do, damned if i dont. No, I dont feel good about any of this and I am surprised by the nastiness of some of the responses to such a thread.

Just forget I said anything. Mods, please delete my profile, I've had enough.

Sorry Lucy, I missed this post. If anyone has been nasty, report it to the mods.

 

[Jaylee]

That's the nature of posts though isn't it Lucy, which is why we have to take responsibilty over what we read as much as what we write and how it interprets. Forums are fiery things, full of disagreements and all sorts of opinions which we as adults, should discuss.

..... Without the use of. "metaphorical" slapstick decapitation. Of course.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Well, good for you! But when I first came here. both myself and my daughter had just been diagnosed with type 1. Nobody else in my family has diabetes. I'd got members left, right and centre telling me that I needed to stop eating carbs, carbs were very bad for us, carbs were going to kill us etc etc. It was TERRIFYING! Luckily, I'm a strong minded woman and completely ignored everyone and found my own way and my girl found her way to deal with this disease. A few pats on the head saying there, there was what got us through!

Maybe we can begin to distinguish more clearly, when posting, between the different kinds of diabetes we all have? It can be less than helpful if the advice given doesn't respond to the OP's needs. Just be careful and considerate.

 

[Guzzler]

There is one thing that binds all people with Diabetes of all types, it is that we know how it feels to be diagnosed. We experience diagnosis differently but what can make a helluva difference to how we cope with our feelings is being able to take an active role in our treatment regime and that means gathering knowledge as a first step. The best place to garner that knowledge imo is in a forum like this that promotes self help and research.

There are those newbies who seem to need being led by the hand and this shows the differences in personalities. Sadly, a lot of us do not have the luxury of time. My dn 'threatened' me with insulin on dx. I found this forum and the members advice gave me the knowledge and understanding that I had a choice in my treatment regime. Without that advice my prognosis would not be what it is today.

It seems to me that there should be a balance between advice on approaching the physical aspects of one's diagnosis coupled with support in dealing with that very diagnosis. If we get the balnce wrong sometimes as individuals then there are always other members to redress that balance. That is, perhaps, why this forum works so well.

 

[paulus1]

ive still not had any official dietary advice. if it was not for the web i would be following low cal diets. being told the facts what will happen if its not controlled is very important. being soft and cuddly is fine for the odd black day but. info that works and is simple to follow is more important.

 

[Boo1979]

That's the nature of posts though isn't it Lucy, which is why we have to take responsibilty over what we read as much as what we write and how it interprets. Forums are fiery things, full of disagreements and all sorts of opinions which we as adults, should discuss.

There is also a very implicit power differential between a newly diagnosed poster / longer diagnosed but struggling poster and a longer established member claimimg to have etablished good control by whatever means - the experience of established members discussing and expressing their opinions / airing their disagreements is very diffetrent from that of a newbie observing it, as are the needs being addressed
I guess a significant question to ask before posting is what / whose need am I trying to meet with this particular post?
I sometimes think it would be more appropriate to start a new thread (possibly sticky) to air / explore / explain ( depending on type of thread) the disagreements in approach ( espescially dietary ones which seem the most common source of what Mrs Merton would have called “a heated debate”) rather than endlessly playing them out in newbies posts. Possibly different ones on the subfora dedicated to T1, T2, etc

 

[Biggles2]

I think that the mods do a great job of jumping in where necessary. A couple of days ago @himtoo responded to a question from a new poster by tagging a great team of members that he knew could respond in just the right way to the OP: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/new-diagnosis-for-husband.129588/#post-1622347.
It struck me at the time that this was an example of how a great forum should work. The ensuing dialogue between members was supportive, informational and caring. So, I think there is a great balance on this forum.

 

[lucylocket61]

Thank you Mods for your help.

There are initial posts where posters reply saying they were able to control their diet through carb counting. Gentle posts, where they state their type of diabetes, page Daisy 1, and recommend testing as an initial thing to try, while offering support and understanding.

The ones i am talking about start from saying you must test or you wont know what is what, and must stop all of the basic staple starches the person is eating.

I am trying to promote the idea of using the gently approach first, like in Daisy 1's post, where she suggests, offers ideas but doesnt lay down the law.

As we know, there are many types of diabetes and treatments people are using. One size (ditch the carbs) doesnt fit all and may be dangerous for some with certain health conditions or medications.

So, despite the polarisation I feel is being introduced on this thread, I am, and have in my first post, asked for a middle ground of offering choices to think about without a black and white approach, and getting to know the person and their type and circumstances and medication in the first response or two. Until then, we dont even know what dietary advice would be appropriate.

 

[Robbity]

I spent the best part of my working life in a job where we were there to provide information - now "it's in my blood", and what I try to carry on doing to the best of my ability. If there are going to be critcisms regarding people believing that they should be offering information or advice on the forum, I'll stop wasting my time. If people feel it important to provide moral support, then they should do so, but members can only offer what they feel best able to. IMO that's what forums are about.

Robbity

 

[Chook]

I spent the best part of my working life in a job where we were there to provide information - now "it's in my blood", and what I try to carry on doing to the best of my ability. If there are going to be critcisms regarding people believing that they should be offering information or advice on the forum, I'll stop wasting my time. If people feel it important to provide moral support, then they should do so, but members can only offer what they feel best able to. IMO that's what forums are about.

Robbity

Very well put!

 

[librarising]

@lucylocket61 Never forget that any member can block any other member's posts if they find them upsetting. They can also be alerted to new posts by people they want to follow.
I did this blocking with one member back in 2012 (at the time of the Carb Wars). Upon return to this forum in 2016 I removed that block, to find the member no longer needed blocking.
I agree that people, within forum rules, should post how they want.
Earlier today I googled 'Gandhi and being the change you want to see'. Well it appears he may not have said it, but for me the principle holds.
Join any club/church etc and you'll gravitate towards those you feel comfortable with.
I didn't see the nastiness you referred to but I did notice you felt some posts were nasty. The answer is you need to find a way to make the forum work for you. That's not the forum's job. Be the change you want to see.
Geoff

 

[kevinfitzgerald]

Diabetes has many different forms and ways of treating it will be different for each individual.

All anyone can do really is to be honest and respond using their own personal positive experiences of living with this condition and what they have done to improve their situation.

If new I would suggest to firstly peruse the correct forum relevant to that persons Diabetes Type and then look for similarities from posters that are relevant to what they are going through at that moment in time.

It makes more sense to follow positive guidance from a Type 1 whose Diabetes has been well managed for a couple of decades than to follow guidance from a Type 2 regarding taking insulin if the person is a Type 1! Or vice versa..

Support covers a diverse range of things to which some may be better than others due to that persons personal attributes. Some may be better at guiding through compassion, empathy and being understanding and others may be better equipped to guide by being practical and straight talking. Both approaches work..

Also don't forget that we can PM one another also and this is important if you find someone doing well who it seems would understand exactly what you might be going through.

Responsibility lies on both sides but we are all human beings and mistakes will be made at times. All we can do is be there for one another. Sometimes that's more important than all the guidance and advice put together!

 

[Guzzler]

Thank you Mods for your help.

There are initial posts where posters reply saying they were able to control their diet through carb counting. Gentle posts, where they state their type of diabetes, page Daisy 1, and recommend testing as an initial thing to try, while offering support and understanding.

The ones i am talking about start from saying you must test or you wont know what is what, and must stop all of the basic staple starches the person is eating.

I am trying to promote the idea of using the gently approach first, like in Daisy 1's post, where she suggests, offers ideas but doesnt lay down the law.

As we know, there are many types of diabetes and treatments people are using. One size (ditch the carbs) doesnt fit all and may be dangerous for some with certain health conditions or medications.

So, despite the polarisation I feel is being introduced on this thread, I am, and have in my first post, asked for a middle ground of offering choices to think about without a black and white approach, and getting to know the person and their type and circumstances and medication in the first response or two. Until then, we dont even know what dietary advice would be appropriate.

With all due respect, and I see where you are coming from, but we are not doctors or dieticians so if a new member has other conditions not related to Diabetes how can we possibly advise? I have four chronic conditions the fourth being T2 but only three are associated with diet. I had to think carefully before I changed my diet weighing up what advice I accepted as to whether it could be beneficial or harmful.
Advice is given but as an adult it is my responsibility to accept or disregard that advice.