My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

[DCUKMod]

Day 16 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.4 kg )
Waist size 86.0 cm (starting 94 cm)

Weight slightly up0.1g, but Bp 106/76 ( won't take the drugs until it increases as this is too low for drugs) and waist definitely another 05cm down ( maybe more) . blood ketones 0.7 Ketonix 7.4 ppm ,average glucose yesterday 5.5 mmol , overnight average 5.2 mmol

I have lost. 7kg since began this and I think practically all of that has come off my midriff and waist. My arms and legs do not seem to be much smaller - but oh my god ! my waist! . I put a swimsuit on yesterday and I swear to God my shape is starting to resemble Joan off Madmen! --what a pity its happened when at 60 not 35 I coulda been a star !

My overall blood sugars seem to have gone up a little , however I did a home Hba1C yesterday which gave a reading of 42., the same as before 6 weeks ago I am a little surprised about that because historically my Hba1C has very closely and reliably tracked weight loss. Something is definitely happening inside me! It might be that as the levels of insulin are coming down, I'm still not making quite enough new to cope, but hopefully if I can continue the process of getting a smaller waist , then eventually this will bring the insulin resistance down and maybe that will enable the all important revitalisation of my pancreas. In the meantime 42 is fine anyway.
I am actually eating about 50-100% more carbs than my previous LCHF way, so if all else fails I still have the option to reduce those further too.

Given that the holy grail appears to be the loss of pancreatic and other organ fat and that that appears to be precisely where this style of eating is taking me , I am just going to plough on for now , rejoice in my new found shape and hope that the end result will all come good eventually.

Overall its certainly been a very successful two weeks. I wonder what the next six will bring. I will get new full bloods done at the end of the 8 week period.

Cherry - Whilst you are losing weight, how are you so certain you are losing pancreatic fat and organ fat, as opposed to subcutaeous fat?

 

[Kristin251]

Years ago I did a (2) home A1C and within ten min one said 5.1 and the other 6.4! The 6.4 was the first one hence redoing it as it didn't correlate with my meter tests. Called the company and was told they have a 20% error factor. Never did one I feel those again!!

Why did you decide to eat 50% more carbs than normal. I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere but of course it's just easier to ask than find it haha. How much of an increase are you seeing?

Just to add, I had 1/3 ( or less) of my hubbies burger with bacon and cheese with a side salad. Same as always, higher before bed, higher fasting and will be higher all day. Dang animal fat!! SO TASTY but does my bg no good.

 

[CherryAA]

Cherry - Whilst you are losing weight, how are you so certain you are losing pancreatic fat and organ fat, as opposed to subcutaeous fat?

I am not at all certain, except that every website that mentions losing visceral fat talks about the importance of getting a good waist to height ratio with 50% being an ideal maximum. On diagnosis mine was 68%, before I started this diet I had got to 56% in a year of LCHF, In 15 days on this diet I have got further to 51%. It may well be that all of that fat came off somewhere utterly unimportant and I am not more metabolically healthy than I was 15 days ago. If that is the case its hard to see why my body would suddenly start to lose weight off that precise area in preference to anywhere else,. If I am indeed no healthier just better shaped then than's fine too! I doubt I will find out which one of those it is, for weeks, maybe never but que sera, sera !

 

[CherryAA]

Years ago I did a (2) home A1C and within ten min one said 5.1 and the other 6.4! The 6.4 was the first one hence redoing it as it didn't correlate with my meter tests. Called the company and was told they have a 20% error factor. Never did one I feel those again!!

Why did you decide to eat 50% more carbs than normal. I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere but of course it's just easier to ask than find it haha. How much of an increase are you seeing?

Just to add, I had 1/3 ( or less) of my hubbies burger with bacon and cheese with a side salad. Same as always, higher before bed, higher fasting and will be higher all day. Dang animal fat!! SO TASTY but does my bg no good.

I was trying to aim for 30g or less and generally succeeding. Now its closer to 40g . That's because I'm trying to see if I can continue to lose weight whilst keeping blood sugars Ok - on a slightly higher carb diet because it includes the vegetables I love. if I can't so be it and I will go back to under 30g. ( or 20g or 10g - eventually - but only if there is no other way! )

 

[Kristin251]

I am not at all certain, except that every website that mentions losing visceral fat talks about the importance of getting a good waist to height ratio with 50% being an ideal maximum. On diagnosis mine was 68%, before I started this diet I had got to 56% in a year of LCHF, In 15 days on this diet I have got further to 51%. It may well be that all of that fat came off somewhere utterly unimportant and I am not more metabolically healthy than I was 15 days ago. If that is the case its hard to see why my body would suddenly start to lose weight off that precise area in preference to anywhere else,. If I am indeed no healthier just better shaped then than's fine too! I doubt I will find out which one of those it is, for weeks, maybe never but que sera, sera !

When I lose or gain weight the first place it goes off OR on is my middle section. Legs and arms don't seem to change.

 

[CherryAA]

Years ago I did a (2) home A1C and within ten min one said 5.1 and the other 6.4! The 6.4 was the first one hence redoing it as it didn't correlate with my meter tests. Called the company and was told they have a 20% error factor. Never did one I feel those again!!

Why did you decide to eat 50% more carbs than normal. I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere but of course it's just easier to ask than find it haha. How much of an increase are you seeing?

Just to add, I had 1/3 ( or less) of my hubbies burger with bacon and cheese with a side salad. Same as always, higher before bed, higher fasting and will be higher all day. Dang animal fat!! SO TASTY but does my bg no good.

In the end I think this rather depends on where one sets the limit - My goal is to bring insulin down and worry less about blood glucose unless it starts to spike horribly. If 91% of the time non diabetic people are under 6.7 mmol, and 99% under 7.8% then that is my goal too- those are both slightly higher than a strict LCHF under 30G carbs diet was giving me. Where have you set your limits ?

 

[CherryAA]

When I lose or gain weight the first place it goes off OR on is my middle section. Legs and arms don't seem to change.

I have NEVER had the shape I am today, through any diet even at its most successful with the lowest recorded weight (about 10 kg less than I am now.) My LCHF diet changed everything proportionately, this time round my breasts have not budged, my waits has come down as has my tummy fat. My thighs and arms are exactly as before - so frankly if all this is doing is improving my shape I'm quite happy to be vain for a bit and see where that goes - I feel utterly incredible at the moment !

 

[Kristin251]

In the end I think this rather depends on where one sets the limit - My goal is to bring insulin down and worry less about blood glucose unless it starts to spike horribly. If 91% of the time non diabetic people are under 6.7 mmol, and 99% under 7.8% then that is my goal too- those are both slightly higher than a strict LCHF under 30G carbs diet was giving me. Where have you set your limits ?

I'm under or at 20g. I don't do net carbs as they act no different. I just use the total. One avo a day, a few veggies and pecans/ Macs/ pumpkin seeds.
I use 45g protein and fill the rest with fat. Mostly avo, nuts, mayo and a little butter and olive oil here and there

 

[CherryAA]

You are most certainly a star on this forum for all your informative personal reporting and research.. Take care..

Oops I just agreed with you LOL, I meant to say thank you ! such a klutz.

A young man just picked me up and marched round a living room with me held a yard off the floor ! - never never never in my wildest dreams................ Its Saturday night " Strictly" next - I can be a diabetic Debbie McGee ( once I've figured out if my legs will actually open that wide .... baby steps

 

[CherryAA]

I'm under or at 20g. I don't do net carbs as they act no different. I just use the total. One avo a day, a few veggies and pecans/ Macs/ pumpkin seeds.
I use 45g protein and fill the rest with fat. Mostly avo, nuts, mayo and a little butter and olive oil here and there

What about the blood sugar limits ? what are you aiming for there?

 

[Kristin251]

I know I can't use net carbs. As an example 6 oz avocado has 14.5 carbs and 11.4 fiber. I don't eat the whole thing at one time. Usually about 1/3 and I still have to take insulin for it. Same with other veggies. I was told I could deduct half the fiber but my body said no

 

[Kristin251]

What about the blood sugar limits ? what are you aiming for there?

85 I call bingo. That's my target. I'm generally between 80& 95. This morning fasting was 110 and that's high for me. I don't like triple digits haha.

 

[CherryAA]

I know I can't use net carbs. As an example 6 oz avocado has 14.5 carbs and 11.4 fiber. I don't eat the whole thing at one time. Usually about 1/3 and I still have to take insulin for it. Same with other veggies. I was told I could deduct half the fiber but my body said no

If we are talking gross carbs, then mine have been gross 55g, net 34g averaged over the full two weeks. At the moment I will put up with the higher blood glucose in the quest for a smaller waist

 

[Kristin251]

If we are talking gross carbs, then mine have been gross 55g, net 34g averaged over the full two weeks. At the moment I will put up with the higher blood glucose in the quest for a smaller waist

How much higher is your bg? Just curious. NOT judging. And what is your target range?

 

[CherryAA]

How much higher is your bg? Just curious. NOT judging. And what is your target range?

For the last few days my daily average has been in the mid 5's , overnight usually high 4's low 5's . liver dump up to 7 -8 but not for long, Post meal high , low 6's -So pretty much all within " normal" .

If I do really low carb/protein I can get daily average to be high 4's and everything down by about 0.5 mmol , but its much more restrictive in terms of food choices

For the last 2 weeks the numbers average at 1375 cal, 98% nutrients - a bit low on folate, Vit E Magnesium and sodium.

I'm currently on average 78g protein, 54 gross cabs ( 20 g fibre, 30 g carbs ) total 132g 98g fat ( 44g sat, 2 natural trans , 5 each Om 3 and om 6 and about 33 mono.I don't know what the rest is- I assume that's because the USDA database contains some foods with no fat breakdown .

If I hit a weight loss/ waist size plateau then I will first try and up the exercise a bit more, then cut back the protein a little , then the carbs ( so that I get to 100g total combined ) I am going to try and keep fibre high and see if that helps. Dr Lustig seems pretty convinced that fibre helps reduce insulin resistance.

Fundamentally my current commitment is all about getting ALL of my nutrients from foods I made myself from natural ingredients by eating once a day for 8 weeks. All food preferably bought locally in farmers markets or proper butchers - though using cheap ingredients where I can. I am not too concerned what is happening to my actual blood glucose at the margins because overall I believe that, that is the diet that will return me to health if anything can and that that is the diet that is long term sustainable and a joy to eat which will make me happy . My mood over the last two weeks has been marvellous. I feel like I could tackle anything right now. That is the way food should make me feel.

In two months time I will see what my weight is , get a formal Hba1C, a new fasting insulin test and do a new home OGTT. at that point I will decide where to go on this next.

For me the fundamental point of all this, is that this current diet is not proving at all difficult, just fun to try. The fact that it has worked so far beyond my wildest dreams confirms my commitment to it. I had no idea when I posted this two weeks ago what it would actually feel like to do this. I doubt I have even gone beyond about 12 hours without food ever before. All I can say is I feel "on top f the world right now" and that is not something I have felt for 40 off years. (in truth never - I was always dissatisfied with my shape since being about 9 years old) - currently I feel vibrant, sexy and about 25 ( for the first time LOL )

 

[Kristin251]

For the last few days my daily average has been in the mid 5's , overnight usually high 4's low 5's . liver dump up to 7 -8 but not for long, Post meal high , low 6's -So pretty much all within " normal" .

If I do really low carb/protein I can get daily average to be high 4's and everything down by about 0.5 mmol , but its much more restrictive in terms of food choices

For the last 2 weeks the numbers average at 1375 cal, 98% nutrients - a bit low on folate, Vit E Magnesium and sodium.

I'm currently on average 78g protein, 54 gross cabs ( 20 g fibre, 30 g carbs ) total 132g 98g fat ( 44g sat, 2 natural trans , 5 each Om 3 and om 6 and about 33 mono.I don't know what the rest is- I assume that's because the USDA database contains some foods with no fat breakdown .

If I hit a weight loss/ waist size plateau then I will first try and up the exercise a bit more, then cut back the protein a little , then the carbs ( so that I get to 100g total combined ) I am going to try and keep fibre high and see if that helps. Dr Lustig seems pretty convinced that fibre helps reduce insulin resistance.

Fundamentally my current commitment is all about getting ALL of my nutrients from foods I made myself from natural ingredients by eating once a day for 8 weeks. All food preferably bought locally in farmers markets or proper butchers - though using cheap ingredients where I can. I am not too concerned what is happening to my actual blood glucose at the margins because overall I believe that, that is the diet that will return me to health if anything can and that that is the diet that is long term sustainable and a joy to eat which will make me happy . My mood over the last two weeks has been marvellous. I feel like I could tackle anything right now. That is the way food should make me feel.

In two months time I will see what my weight is , get a formal Hba1C, a new fasting insulin test and do a new home OGTT. at that point I will decide where to go on this next.

For me the fundamental point of all this, is that this current diet is not proving at all difficult, just fun to try. The fact that it has worked so far beyond my wildest dreams confirms my commitment to it. I had no idea when I posted this two weeks ago what it would actually feel like to do this. I doubt I have even gone beyond about 12 hours without food ever before. All I can say is I feel "on top f the world right now" and that is not something I have felt for 40 off years. (in truth never - I was always dissatisfied with my shape since being about 9 years old) - currently I feel vibrant, sexy and about 25 ( for the first time LOL )

You got this girl!! And the best part is feeling good!! Sometimes I too feel better in the ABSENSE of food but I have no choice now, hence my mini meals. Food of any kind can bog me down. So just a little here and there for me.

 

[CherryAA]

You got this girl!! And the best part is feeling good!! Sometimes I too feel better in the ABSENSE of food but I have no choice now, hence my mini meals. Food of any kind can bog me down. So just a little here and there for me.

In the end we all have to do what works for us each of us and we are all different. I know I spent years on a diet with frequent small low fat meals , it was hell and it gave me diabetes. Which part created the diabetes I don't know. I'm happy to try the reverse until its clear that it doesn't work for me.

You've obviously spent ages finding your own personal sweet spot - so that's grand. I have no particular desire to push what I'm doing on anyone else, simply reporting what happens based on a theory I have as to how it works. I could be utterly wrong and I could be making my diabetes worse. Its hard to say how anything that makes me feel this good could be bad for me but only time will tell!

 

[KK123]

Cherry, I am loving your posts. You sound like a lot of fun too!

 

[CherryAA]

Why thank you. Im very much of the school of " gotta laugh " if humanly possible . Life's too short to get overly fussed by evil stuff , do what you can , and if all else fails the whisky will numb the pain lol

 

[Fleegle]

Day 15 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.3 kg )
Waist size 86.5 cm (starting 94 cm)

No change in weight, BP 122/76, average BS yesterday 5.2mmol, overnight average today 4.8 mmol.
Morning ketones 1.4 , ketonix 4.5

Only 1100 calories yesterday as well . One thing I noticed on both these low calories days is that I have not had huge ketone reactions from the ketonix. When I ate about 1600 calories my ketone readings that evening were extraordinary -upto 52 ppm, over the last two days its been a lot lower at around 14ppm which is similar to the levels the fasting guys mention.

I have also been re- reading "Fat Chance" by Dr Robert Lustig. For those sceptical about the likelihood that they have very high fasting insulin, it helps explain the situation very clearly . He discusses at length the reasons why too much circulating insulin drives so many things in reasonably understandable format for a layman,
For those wanting to lose weight he lists - get the insulin down as the main priority ( page 231)
Dr Lustig is also of the view that weight loss will not occur for long if one eats less than your basal metabolic rate - because that is where you can optimise all the other hormones too. For me that is about 1550 calories which is where the magic lasagn kicked in so I am going to increase back to to 1550 for a couple of days and see what happens.

A nutrient dense meal.
I bought a packet of oxtail from the butcher - ( 1kg pack including bones) . browned with a little butter, then simmered in a pan of water for about 6 hrs. At that stage the meat falls off. and the stock has reduced to a couple of hundred ml maximum . I then simmered the bones for another few hours until they were totally bleached, and reduce the resulting stock for use as necessary to thin dishes.

The meat looks a little like the old canned stewing steak! The following day I used the fat from the steak - which had separated and look like white lard, to fry an onion, mushroom and tomato , adding the broth and the meat .with a bit of chilli,garlic salt and pepper . One third serving of that gives 600 calories and 60% of daily nutrients. As importantly -it tastes amazing!

One thing I have noticed for me personally is that my blood sugars seem to respond better to meat than fish dishes. I think that might be something to do with how nutrient dense it is.

I've broken out my " stand up " desk again - though cannot find the " thingy " that gets the rolling road started as yet lol (probably as well as I keep falling off ) and I'm off for a swim - happy days and happy weekend folks!

That is very interesting on the Ketones.
I read somewhere that on the ND people that spent less time in Ketosis faired better but I cannot find any proof now to back that up. I know many people said that was impossible - but your evidence here shows less calories, less ketones... Perhaps still difficult to believe but by now means impossible then?