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ND done, 5:2 fast didnt work now ND with a twist

Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

There are some accounts of blood sugars returning to normal very quickly,the rest of the Newcastle diet being to shed weight.

My personal opinion is that you stop when blood sugars are normal and your weight is correct for you.In my case when I was a young man my weight was 12 stone for years, this was within a normal BMI range,and this is where I ended up at the end of the diet.I stopped after 7 weeks because during exercise I was starting to run out of energy ie I had consumed all easily accessible fat reserves and my body was no longer able to break down fat for energy.I had also stopped losing weight.In the eighth week I added extra calories during the day prior to exercise and made the third meal a small normal meal as I got used to eating solid food again.In your case I would concentrate on getting a good Hb result before stopping.

Post diet the evidence is that your blood sugars will rise and then stabilise and your weight will increase,but without affecting blood sugar levels.In my case weight did not initially increase,but in the last few months I have put on 2-3 lbs.I have started running for 3 miles each morning to get my paper and the weight increase occurred after this change,so probably muscle as the running has become easier and I can see distinct bulges on my scrawny legs.

I had my first Hb test one month after finishing the diet and it came back 38,my second three months after and it came back 39,which is consistent with other peoples results.My next Hb is scheduled for March next year.In the interim I have been recording fasting blood sugars.During the three months between Hb tests my average was 5.2.I then tested for a fortnight as I came up to the six month post diet period and this also came back as an average of 5.2,suggesting no changes yet in the improved insulin sensitivity.I will do another check in three months time.

Diet wise I am controlling calories and eating "good" foods with lots of fruit and veg.

Good luck and listen to what your body is telling you.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Forgot to ask,are you still on Simvastatin?One side effect of the diet is cholesterol levels drop.Mine dropped from 5.4 pre-diet to 4.0 post diet.

The reason I ask is that muscle pains are a known side effect of Simvastatin,especially in those who exercise a lot.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Defren, personally I think it's way too soon to come off the ND, but I do think there there are a few issues that you may want to consider. The original ND was 800 calories a day, not 600. Also, they didn't do any exercise, unlike you! Now I understand the reasons why you made both these choices, but I think you need to increase your calorie intake to cover the exercise. This is probably why you're losing so much weight. Bear in mind that post operative bariatric patients wouldn't be doing the sort of exercise that you're doing every day :clap:
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

tree-peony said:
The original ND was 800 calories a day, not 600.
Click to expand...

If you look at the Newcastle study report itself, it says that the diet comprised 3 Optifast shakes that total 510 kCal/day plus three portions of non-starchy veg to bring the total up to 600 kCal/day. It's on the second page, about half-way down the right hand column. The report is clear that the diabetic study group did NOT take any additional exercise and came off metformin one week before the start (and sulfonylureas two months before).

Andrew
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

I'm not so sure - I have seen references to 800 kCals per day in lots of places. If you look at the Newcastle recipe document here http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/StudyRecipes.pdf it does say 800 kCals - but it also says that the shakes are 600 kCals themselves, which I don't think is correct. My bet is that the research study report is actually correct and that the diet was 600 kCals.

Andrew
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Hi Defren, I think TP is talking a great deal of sense and I agree that it would be a shame to stop the ND so early ........

...... but you have found that you now need to exercise to feel good so your diet will have to take this into account, increasing your calories to balance out the exercise will give you a chance to slow down your weight loss whilst giving your pancreas the added time in which to stablise insulin production. This may not be how the original ND was applied as it needed to have strict parameters that could be measured and applied to all subjects but in a real life situation having such strict parameters will not necessarily be the best way to proceed. You have already adapted the original diet to suit you and the next step has to be tailored to your needs as well.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

I think it is too easy to get hung up on the exact number of calories.I did the diet un-supported by the doctor so used Slimfast bottles at 230 calories each.This means that daily I took in 690 calories of Slimfast plus 3 small cereal bowls full of non-starchy salads.If you allow a maximum of 200 calories for the salads that took the total up to 890 calories for the day.

Once over the initial two days I found I had boundless energy so I upped my exercise to three sessions per day,totalling 2-3 hours of aerobic exercise,which is the reason I was de-fatted after 7 weeks.My eventual weight loss was recorded by the diabetics nurse as 10 kgs,but I know I had put on another couple of kilos between her weigh ins,so probably 12 kgs if I am honest.

There is a weird mismatch in the diet.I am told the body needs 1500 calories per day just to keep the brain and organs working,however on a conservative estimate my exercise was consuming 500-600 calories per day.If you are only taking in 890 calories the rest of what you need has to come from fat.

In Defrens case taking in a few extra calories would just slow the rate of weight loss.With regard to duration of the diet,fat is laid down in layers,composed of cells which fill up with fat.A quick diet de-fats the cells,which then fill up again post diet (hence yo-yo dieting).Dieting for longer will enable the body to absorb empty cells and will prevent this (or thats my theory).
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Thank you everyone who has replied. One comment that really struck a chord was about bariatric patients. Of course they couldn't exercise, so weight loss wouldn't have been so high. That is a point I had not taken into account, yet is probably one of the major issues here.

Some points I didn't mention in my post yesterday, but feel I should here.

My weight loss since Monday is now 6lb, so heading for another 10-12lb loss. 3lb over night!
My arms, wrists, calves and thighs are smaller than my daughters (15 yo and not overweight at all).

I had a rather restless night last night thinking about all of this. My heart wants to do the 8 weeks, my brain is telling me if the weight loss continues at the same pace, I will be at the lower end of underweight by the end, even on 800 calories a day.

I spoke with a friend last night, she suggested I keep the three shakes, but add a light meal in daily as well. I am wondering if I were to add in a protein meal, such as say chicken salad, (only a smallish piece of chicken) but plenty of green leaves etc, if this might help?

No matter what, I will do all shakes for the remainder of this week and all of next. That was my original plan, so will stick to that. Than I know I MUST add calories one way or another. I can't carry on losing 10-12lb a week. Getting 'skinny' was NEVER my plan, it was always to be at a healthy weight, with low and controlled BG's. Although I could do with losing a stone to a stone and half to be in the lower end of the normal healthy range, I don't want to lose more than that.

This all seemed to easy at the beginning, who could have possibly guessed loosing too much weight would become and issue?


[edit to add] my 30 day BG average is 5.6 14 day average 5.1 week average 5.1
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Thursday May 10 - day 18

Lunch
Pre BG 5.2 + 2 hours 4.

Dinner
Pre BG 4.7+ 2 5.0

Supper
Pre BG 5.0 +2 5.0

Fluid

Water 3L
Tea - 0

Exercise

60 minutes, some easy, some medium, some hard.

Verdict after day 18

Feeling so much better today. I have made my decision on what I am going to do. I am going to carry on as I first planned. 4 weeks all shakes, which is done a week on Sunday, then 4 weeks three shakes, and a small leafy, or veggie meal. If I am sill dropping calories too quickly, I shall add some protein to the salad or veg.

I can't believe the peace of mind I feel now I have my plan all worked out. Yesterday was a very difficult day, but reading the posts that followed my dilemma post, made things a lot clearer. The knowledge bariatric patients can't exercise, I do. Also the image of layers of fat cells, that needed to be removed and also the fact that my body will stop dropping weight when there is no 'safe' fat left to drop.

I spent the afternoon walking on the treadmill, miles away thinking of all that had been said, and then :idea: the light bulb moment. I then did an online shop to be delivered a week on Saturday, full of all the foods I will need, salad, veg, and also some chicken, steak, eggs etc, high protein, incase I do need to up the calories. My mind is now at peace.

Thank you all so much - Joanna.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

that's brill Joanna
FWIW I think it's the right decision as well.

Just as an aside, I got into another row last night with some "friends" who insist I should be eating a "normal" diet and take more pills to compensate. I was having a bit of a wobbly day yesterday (after scrambled egg for breakfast left me feeling really sick all day) and what I needed was a bit of TLC, not "well you should be eating more bread and mashed potato - every other diabetic we know does just that".

Anyway, I was rewarded this morning by a BG of 14.1 The lowest I've EVER managed :clap:

Onwards and upwards!
(won't be around today btw)
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Glad you have come to a decision Defren. :thumbup:

Very pleased for you TP, just goes to show that, like Defren, you are doing what is right for you despite having to go against the veiws of other people. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

The only thing I want to add though is that sometimes people questioning the way we decide to do things is because they care, a tad frustrating at times but at least it shows that they are aware of what we are doing even though they don't understand the battle we are fighting.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Friday May 11 - day 19

Lunch
Pre BG 5.1 + 2 hours 5.3

Dinner
Pre BG 4.1+ 2 4.8

Supper
Pre BG 4.5 +2 4.7

Fluid

Water 3.5L
Tea black 2 cups

60 minutes, some easy, some medium, some hard. The first 30 minutes the same as yesterday, second thirty minutes, each level increased slightly. So, still easy, medium and hard, but slightly harder than yesterday.

Verdict after day 18

As usual, feeling good, full of energy, able to get all tasks completed with a clear mind. Still sleeping brilliantly, and waking really refreshed.

Had a struggle with eating today. Didn't manage lunch shake until around 3pm, dinner shake around 7:30 and supper 10pm. Really wasn't hungry at all come shake time, and even when I did decide I really should eat, I didn't want the shakes, but had to force them down. Not sure if this is a sign of my stomach really shrinking, but it was almost like my days before the ND where the appetite suppressant qualities of Metformin made eating almost impossible. It could of course be TOTM as I am due, and if I am retaining fluid this may be another possibility for real lack of appetite. Hoping this is not going to be a major issue as I have a week and 2 days before I begin eating any solid foods, so can't afford to miss shakes.

I have had to remove all my rings, as they are now slipping easily off my fingers. I am not going to have any resized just yet, to allow for any further shrinkage. Himself has agreed with this, even though I know he would prefer me to wear my ring, it's just not safe to do so.

Due to TOTM I think weight loss is going to be less this week, but then would expect a huge loss the week after with the fat and water retained to be dispelled. Interesting days ahead. Inches lost are incredible, really pleased with those, even tummy shrinking well now, as that was going slower than other places. Doing great.


[edit to add] +2 supper.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet


Sadly outsiders are never going to understand what drives us. They think (as I did) diabetes is all about sugar, so when they see you refusing things that are perhaps low in sugar, yet not so low in carbs it doesn't make any sense.

You BG levels are proving to you it is working, and you must continue to listen to you, no one else. It's always fantastic to see people achieving new personal goals. I love that. People working hard and gaining control. Well done, brilliant work.

I am in a much, much happier place now I know what I am going to do. My daughters and I have planned a huge baking day a week on Saturday, to get the freezer stocked with loads of foods I can eat in my last four weeks, and they will also enjoy. My elder daughter has even put her social plans on hold that day, to stay home with mom and bake :shock: Brilliant - so looking forward to that day, something to really work hard to get to, then enjoy an all girls baking day. Yum :lol:
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet


Thank you Catza. Everything in Jo's world is good again. Such a relief to know what I am doing. I am so at peace with myself, the diet and my future. It's a good feeling.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Feel totally cr*p today. I am having to force everything including exercise. I am exhausted, brain fog, can't think clearly. UGH!! No change in anything - except!! I bought some water flavourings and have been adding them to my water today. Firstly, at only 7pm I have drunk 3L and secondly all the symptoms above. It is TOTM but that shouldn't make me this thirsty, and also when I got up, I was my usual bright eyed bushy tailed self. Not having any more of the flavourings, I feel dreadful.
 
Re: A Geordie trying the Newcastle Diet

Sure hope you feel better tommorow Jo and that the feeling of wellbeing returns! :wink:
 
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