Net Carbs Saga

[paulcw16]

Products like Choczero, and Quest Protein bars utilize monk fruit and allulose, which have zero glycemic index according to web/AI search (not product websites). Quality keto breads the same. I averaged 80g net carbs/day and my A1C only went from 6.7 to 6.5. So I'm either Type 2 FOR REAL, or the 'net carb' marker isn't applicable for whatever reason. Or I should just try total carbs, say under 100, and see what happens. Thoughts?

 

[VashtiB]

Hi @paulcw16

That sounds frustrating and disappointing.

Are you using a meter? If not I highly recommend that you use one at least for a while so you can work out how your body is reacting to different foods including artificial sweeteners. There are some that my body reacts worse to than sugar. These seem to be very individual so worthwhile testing to see which ones your body can process without raising your blood sugar levels. It's really disappointing to find an artificial sweetener that your body doesn't tolerate because then it seems to be in every product (speaking from experience).

It also varies from person to person how many carbs your body can tolerate. Some (fortunate) people can keep their levels down with 100 grams of carbs a day. Others (like me) need to have our carb intake much lower. This is the real reason to use a meter at least for a while.

I self fund CGM a few times a year as I need to be aware of what my body is doing atm. I also use it to test different foods.

Good luck.

 

[paulcw16]

Hi @paulcw16

That sounds frustrating and disappointing.

Are you using a meter? If not I highly recommend that you use one at least for a while so you can work out how your body is reacting to different foods including artificial sweeteners. There are some that my body reacts worse to than sugar. These seem to be very individual so worthwhile testing to see which ones your body can process without raising your blood sugar levels. It's really disappointing to find an artificial sweetener that your body doesn't tolerate because then it seems to be in every product (speaking from experience).

It also varies from person to person how many carbs your body can tolerate. Some (fortunate) people can keep their levels down with 100 grams of carbs a day. Others (like me) need to have our carb intake much lower. This is the real reason to use a meter at least for a while.

I self fund CGM a few times a year as I need to be aware of what my body is doing atm. I also use it to test different foods.

Good luck.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!

 

[Resurgam]

Products like Choczero, and Quest Protein bars utilize monk fruit and allulose, which have zero glycemic index according to web/AI search (not product websites). Quality keto breads the same. I averaged 80g net carbs/day and my A1C only went from 6.7 to 6.5. So I'm either Type 2 FOR REAL, or the 'net carb' marker isn't applicable for whatever reason. Or I should just try total carbs, say under 100, and see what happens. Thoughts?

Last year just before my HbA1c test was due I tried the shapes and small meal regime, in teh hope of lowering my HbA1c - but found it was increased and I was actually in the diabetes range, though only 48.
I suspect that the lactose and the carbs in the shakes were simply too easily accessible.
My normal diet has carbs from low carb veges, salad, berries - no grains, and nothing very processed. I do have small amounts of very dark chocolate, but not very often. All other foods are in their natural state, just about. I do buy sausages, carefully selecting for low carb and good flavour, bacon is boiled for a minute to remove salt and other soluble substances. Two teaspoons of artificial sweetener in a week would probably indicate that it is Christmas.
These days I set my daily limit at 40gm of carbs and I expect to be back down at the top end of normal at my next HbA1c test.
I selected my menu with the help of a glucose meter and testing at the 2 hour point after starting a meal, to stay below under 8mmol/l after meals. That seemed to be making me feel better, and as I stuck to the same foods and meals I saw the after eating levels reduce down and down, and my HbA1c stayed in the low 40s.

 

[paulcw16]

Last year just before my HbA1c test was due I tried the shapes and small meal regime, in teh hope of lowering my HbA1c - but found it was increased and I was actually in the diabetes range, though only 48.
I suspect that the lactose and the carbs in the shakes were simply too easily accessible.
My normal diet has carbs from low carb veges, salad, berries - no grains, and nothing very processed. I do have small amounts of very dark chocolate, but not very often. All other foods are in their natural state, just about. I do buy sausages, carefully selecting for low carb and good flavour, bacon is boiled for a minute to remove salt and other soluble substances. Two teaspoons of artificial sweetener in a week would probably indicate that it is Christmas.
These days I set my daily limit at 40gm of carbs and I expect to be back down at the top end of normal at my next HbA1c test.
I selected my menu with the help of a glucose meter and testing at the 2 hour point after starting a meal, to stay below under 8mmol/l after meals. That seemed to be making me feel better, and as I stuck to the same foods and meals I saw the after eating levels reduce down and down, and my HbA1c stayed in the low 40s.

Thank you. Very helpful!!

 

[KennyA]

Products like Choczero, and Quest Protein bars utilize monk fruit and allulose, which have zero glycemic index according to web/AI search (not product websites). Quality keto breads the same. I averaged 80g net carbs/day and my A1C only went from 6.7 to 6.5. So I'm either Type 2 FOR REAL, or the 'net carb' marker isn't applicable for whatever reason. Or I should just try total carbs, say under 100, and see what happens. Thoughts?

Hi - I'm guessing you're in the USA, from the post content. The UK doesn't do "total" and "net carbs". Carb values for UK food have already had the indigestible fibre, which makes up the "total carb" value, deducted.

As I've said elsewhere, I have found food Glycaemic Index values to be no use whatsoever. I checked it as a method after diagnosis five years ago, but dropped it within days. Foods behaved exactly opposite to what their GI value led me to expect.

I have to say that with the BG values you're reporting, that would be an automatic T2 diagnosis in the UK. On that, you're T2 for real. That means, as it does for all of us, that we have a problem dealing with glucose, and therefore the carbs that are digested to glucose.

If you're aiming to try low carb as a way of lowering BG, the issue is partly the amount of carb you're eating, and partly the impact that carb has on your system. It can be very difficult to estimate how much carb you actually eat. Averages can be tricky. There are carbs and sugars in lots of things - eg milk - that might not be expected. It is possible, if you're new to this, that you've simply not really been on 80g/day at all. That should be encouraging: it means there's scope for improvement, not that "it didn't work".


Sites like Dietdoctor (https://www.dietdoctor.com/) are pretty good for their guides to foods and carb levels. My approach was not really to carb count, but to do what I'd done for Atkins - eliminate all high-carb items from my diet. I have a bit of residual carb from things like green veg and low-carb bread, and as long as that adds up to around 20-25g/day total I'm OK. I find that anything flour-based - pasta, bread, pastry etc - is consistently harder for my system to manage, and I get bigger BG rises from the same gram quantity of carb compared to beans or legumes.


The way to find all that out for yourself is through fingerprick testing before you eat and at +2hrs afterwards: that will demonstrate how well your system handled the carb and derived glucose in your meal. I'd recommend recording your readings alongside the foods eaten. I think the point is to understand patterns, and not to go off single readings, which can be really misleading. Any alcohol taken with food will tend to produce "artificially" lower readings, but not the amount of carb eaten, and I generally disregard testing in those circumstances.

I also stay away from anything processed or packaged and anything suggesting "convenience". That started because I didn't trust myself to understand lists of chemical ingredients on things like so-called "keto bars" - those turned out to have around 40g carb in each small bar, not keto at all. So I cook from scratch, with fresh ingredients. That gives me control over what I eat, rather than trusting FoodCorpCo not to lie to me. I batch cook and chill or freeze leftovers, which is what I used to do at the weekends while I was still working.

read around a bit on the forums - and ask as many questions as you like. best of luck.

 

[paulcw16]

Hi - I'm guessing you're in the USA, from the post content. The UK doesn't do "total" and "net carbs". Carb values for UK food have already had the indigestible fibre, which makes up the "total carb" value, deducted.

As I've said elsewhere, I have found food Glycaemic Index values to be no use whatsoever. I checked it as a method after diagnosis five years ago, but dropped it within days. Foods behaved exactly opposite to what their GI value led me to expect.

I have to say that with the BG values you're reporting, that would be an automatic T2 diagnosis in the UK. On that, you're T2 for real. That means, as it does for all of us, that we have a problem dealing with glucose, and therefore the carbs that are digested to glucose.

If you're aiming to try low carb as a way of lowering BG, the issue is partly the amount of carb you're eating, and partly the impact that carb has on your system. It can be very difficult to estimate how much carb you actually eat. Averages can be tricky. There are carbs and sugars in lots of things - eg milk - that might not be expected. It is possible, if you're new to this, that you've simply not really been on 80g/day at all. That should be encouraging: it means there's scope for improvement, not that "it didn't work".


Sites like Dietdoctor (https://www.dietdoctor.com/) are pretty good for their guides to foods and carb levels. My approach was not really to carb count, but to do what I'd done for Atkins - eliminate all high-carb items from my diet. I have a bit of residual carb from things like green veg and low-carb bread, and as long as that adds up to around 20-25g/day total I'm OK. I find that anything flour-based - pasta, bread, pastry etc - is consistently harder for my system to manage, and I get bigger BG rises from the same gram quantity of carb compared to beans or legumes.


The way to find all that out for yourself is through fingerprick testing before you eat and at +2hrs afterwards: that will demonstrate how well your system handled the carb and derived glucose in your meal. I'd recommend recording your readings alongside the foods eaten. I think the point is to understand patterns, and not to go off single readings, which can be really misleading. Any alcohol taken with food will tend to produce "artificially" lower readings, but not the amount of carb eaten, and I generally disregard testing in those circumstances.

I also stay away from anything processed or packaged and anything suggesting "convenience". That started because I didn't trust myself to understand lists of chemical ingredients on things like so-called "keto bars" - those turned out to have around 40g carb in each small bar, not keto at all. So I cook from scratch, with fresh ingredients. That gives me control over what I eat, rather than trusting FoodCorpCo not to lie to me. I batch cook and chill or freeze leftovers, which is what I used to do at the weekends while I was still working.

read around a bit on the forums - and ask as many questions as you like. best of luck.

THANK YOU Kenny!! Yes, in the US (sorry about how my neighbors voted!). I've researched a lot (73, mental health professional)....I'm positive my counting is correct....BUT yes, this is FOR REAL. Ugh! 80 is simply too much for my biology!! And yes, too much packaged stuff for sure. Tricky as a vegetarian, less protein choices....and the allulose and monk fruit and modified starch is racing through my gut which isn't good eithter. SO thanks for the reality check. And for what you do as a moderator!! This is the best of what the internet can do. Helping each other across the pond.