'New' Breakthrough....

[Glenmac]

@Rachox Like you I've reduced myHbA1c to 41 using a low carb,moderate fat diet.Im eating interesting food,looking forward to each tasty meal.I can't do lots of vigorous exercise,just try to keep active.A friend ,also in his seventies,used the Newcastle method,with lots of exercise each day,had great results initially,dropping all meds.The last time we spoke his bs numbers were creeping up.He is now considering low carb.I hope eventually it will be accepted that we are all different and type 2s will be advised on an approach which is tailored to the individual.This will need to consider those of us who hadn't much weight to lose!Im delighted for the 46% who are considered to have reversed their type 2D,and I'm glad that there is some attention being drawn to diabetes.I was just back from a GP visit.My doctor was interested in my LC diet and my results,yet in the waiting area there was not one leaflet about diabetes(there were a lot of leaflets and posters about every aspect of health care).

 

[Hiitsme]

Can i recommend supplement r-ala? It allowed me to help my insulin find its correct pathway, to convert glucose into energy. I lost weight therafter but im confident only because my body wasnt 'broken', for a change. A great antioxident.
It's obvious none over-weight type2s have a clear pathway problem not fat around their organs. Just my opinion thou.

My BMI at diagnosis was 24.8 so GP said not overweight. I lost 15 kg BMI 19.6 which gave me HbA1c of 33 but GP very concerned I had lost too much weight and I was persuaded to put some weight back on. but have still managed to keep HbA1c's in the normal level. For me it was too much fat round the waist so do think it was fat round the pancreas which hopefully I've now lost.

 

[Guzzler]

I confess I was amused by the lady who, at the end of the report I saw, said 'If I can do it, anybody can do it'. She either had a very low opinion of her own abilities, or, more likely, she knows little of the problems diabetes poses quite a few of the rest of us.

Especially as half of those who took part did not manage to do it.

This sounds as if I am not in favour of ND but I feel that it is the transition from the diet to real food that worries me not the diet itself.

 

[Bluetit1802]

And have you 'reversed' @bluetit ?

(I know the answer to this question already, since I have seen you post on the forum for quite a while, but just wanted to make the point )

We are back to what anyone means by reversal/remission.
The ND report defines it as:

Co-primary outcomes were weight loss of 15 kg or more, and remission of diabetes, defined as glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) of less than 6·5% (<48 mmol/mol) after at least 2 months off all antidiabetic medications, from baseline to 12 months.

I lost 25kg, my HbA1c has been less than 48 since June 2014, I have taken no medication, and have maintained it all for longer than the required 12 months to satisfy the above criteria. (3 years and 5 months). I believe I would have passed under these criteria - as would many of us on a low carb way of eating.

 

[Daibell]

Yes, I saw the BBC piece. I get fed-up with stuff about the ND and Prof Taylor. Why keep talking about calories when it's carbs that cause weight - doesn't he know this? One moment I hear it's a fatty liver, then it's a fatty pancreas. In fact it's fat all over the body in particular the muscle cells - doesn't he know this. He's funded by DUK amongst others so has to keep producing 'results' to get the funding I guess. One day his team will find out that a low-carb diet is all you need.....

 

[Suercc]

Yes, I saw it and was confused by their explanation. That's possibly down to journalists not having a clue, bless them. I can see that some type II diabetics will have a pancreas that may not be functioning 100%, possibly down to drugs making it work harder or even insulin resistance making it work harder in the first place.

My limited experience of trying the Newcastle Diet for 6 weeks on 800 calories a day was that it leveled my BG beautifully, incidentally, my pancreas is producing insulin within the normal range as per my c-peptide test. I shall have another go at the Newcastle in the new year. Five months? I'll start with two and see how it goes.

Hello. How did you get access to the shakes etc? Which brand did you use? Are they very costly ?
Love my LCHF way of eating but want to break a weight loss stall.

 

[Bluetit1802]

We are back to what anyone means by reversal/remission.
The ND report defines it as:

Co-primary outcomes were weight loss of 15 kg or more, and remission of diabetes, defined as glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) of less than 6·5% (<48 mmol/mol) after at least 2 months off all antidiabetic medications, from baseline to 12 months.

I lost 25kg, my HbA1c has been less than 48 since June 2014, I have taken no medication, and have maintained it all for longer than the required 12 months to satisfy the above criteria. (3 years and 5 months). I believe I would have passed under these criteria - as would many of us on a low carb way of eating.

I should have added that the definition of remission as stated in the ND report is not my personal definition. I am very surprised that the definition is so generous, or perhaps not surprised as Prof Taylor et al wanted good results.

 

[first14808]

Hmm

We awarded our largest ever research grant of £2.5 million to help our scientists find out if an intensive low-calorie, diet-based, weight management programme can put Type 2 diabetes into remission, and keep it there. And to test if this can be delivered entirely within the NHS.

And DUK's soliciting for donations to fund more research. Which is nice, but being an old cynic, I'd much prefer them to PUT A COPY OF THE PAPER ON THEIR WEBSITE!

The Lancet is a prestigious, high impact journal, but $31 is a bit steep to read the results DUK's funded. Naturally I'm curious if this is any different to the recommendations here for a low carb diets, and also if any of the people enrolled in the trial gained weight and went back to being T2. Oh, and being cynical again, whether sachets of the Newcastle diet will be sold to the NHS or in health food shops..

 

[kokhongw]

Link to summary of the article and an audio from Prof Taylor...

http://www.thelancet.com/action/showFullTextImages?pii=S0140-6736(17)33102-1

I think barking up the wrong tree in a way.. portion size and exercise but no mention of insulin..It's all our own fault for eating too much and being lazy... now where have we heard that before....

I think it is the stepped food re-introduce that mess things up

The intervention comprise withdrawal of antidiabetic and antihypertensive drugs, total diet replacement (825–853 kcal/day formula diet for 3–5 months), stepped food reintroduction (2–8 weeks), and structured support for long-term weight loss maintenance. Co-primary outcomes were weight loss of 15 kg or more, and remission of diabetes, defined as glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) of less than 6·5% (<48 mmol/mol) after at least 2 months off all antidiabetic medications, from baseline to 12 months.

But it is a step forward in the right direction for them to admit the following:-

Interpretation
Our findings show that, at 12 months, almost half of participants achieved remission to a non-diabetic state and off antidiabetic drugs. Remission of type 2 diabetes is a practical target for primary care.

Now it is accepted...and we know of various effective ways of achieving it...it need not be chronic and progressive...

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

How did you get access to the shakes etc? Which brand did you use? Are they very costly ? Love my LCHF way of eating but want to break a weight loss stall.

The research being reported in the news is a follow up to research done at Newcastle University in 2012 by Professor Roy Taylor and funded by Diabetes UK. I originally read that Professor Taylor wanted to prove that the success of Bariatric Surgery was down to severely restricting calories. I see that it's now to prove the build up of fat in both the pancreas and the liver. It examined 11 people with diabetes who slashed their food intake to 600 calories per day for 8 weeks.Three months later, 7 of the 11 people studied were free of diabetes. This is where there seems to some confusion as the diet totaled 800 cals, 600 cals from Optifast meal replacement sachets and a further 200 calories from non starchy vegetables.

I actually used Ultranflamx and Ultrameal 360 food supplements as meal replacement for breakfast and then two meals of non starchy vegetables, I also take supplements like Vit C, Vit D, Vit B12, Magnesium . . . . . The total calories was 800 or less and that might be the only real similarity with Newcastle. There's a very interesting document available at

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...KLET2012.pdf&usg=AOvVaw21Mn9O3MHOWbTCaO8E-KP_

Or Google Newcastle diet History. The two supplements I used are expensive (14 servings - £40) although I seemed to get more than 14 servings from the container I have, I may have used smaller quantities, but even Optifast is about £3 a serving, I guess shopping around would find something less expensive.

Personally, I'm seriously contemplating just vegetables next time and perhaps juicing for one or two meals. I might use the Nutribullit in preference to a juicer to keep all the bits in, might make me feel like I'm eating something.

My weight stall had lasted several years, several years of lowering my calorie intake by 500, 1000, 1500 and finally 2,000 to be Newcastle like 800 calories (my RMR is 2400 and BMR is 2,800). I've used several online metabolic rate calculators, they all come out about the same, the one that was ridiculously high I ignored and I always come back to the Harris Benedict calculation.

The very low calorie approach helped me lose several kgs (so did 3 weeks in NZ and I know which was easier) and more importantly straightened out my BG that seemed to bare no connection to the low carb food I was eating before the VLCD.

 

[Sue192]

The article is on the front page of the BBC website again. I haven't checked but no doubt there'll be an article on the Daily Wail website (awful thing) with lots of so-clever posts with the 'eat less move more' mantra and the usual nasty fat comments. The phrase - "but anybody can do it if you feel strongly enough" - is perjorative: the word strongly implies that some might not give a **** about their T2 (might have been a typo/journalist eror) and are too lazy to do anything about it. It's great that Prof Taylor's regime has produced such good results but the media message is still cloaked in the 'it's your fault, you got fat'. A friend of mine did Lighter Life years ago, lost a huge amount of weight but wrecked her gallbladder (and the shakes/bars were very sweet) - I wonder if this might happen on the ND shakes?

 

[Phil the stick]

I saw that News on BBC1, and I'm interested in doing that procedure. I'd love a chance to be rid of my type 2 diabetes. Where do I sign up ?

 

[t1reid]

I have T1, so cannot reverse but still found this book insightful https://www.amazon.co.uk/8-Week-Blood-Sugar-Diet-reprogramme/dp/1780722400. It basically discusses getting rid of the visceral fat around the pancreas to make insulin more effective. I believe this is the source of the news reported.

 

[Fleegle]

Since diagnosis, on a low carb diet of ‘real’ food I’ve lost over 4 stone and got my HbA1c to a ‘non diabetic’ level. Real food, much more enjoyable than glorified milk shakes!

Yes apparently you can do it with real food.
But if you are not as disciplined as you are - if you have suffered with poor advice and are at wits end - if you are taking drugs including injecting and some one offers you a ray of hope and simply means trying a diet for 8 - 20 weeks, perhaps you would feel like giving that a go.

 

[woodywhippet61]

Yes apparently you can do it with real food.
But if you are not as disciplined as you are - if you have suffered with poor advice and are at wits end - if you are taking drugs including injecting and some one offers you a ray of hope and simply means trying a diet for 8 - 20 weeks, perhaps you would feel like giving that a go.

If someone isn't disciplined nothing is going to work long term.

 

[kokhongw]

If someone isn't disciplined nothing is going to work long term.

Often it is the breaking of a hormonal induced addiction. Once we find and break that trigger, typically a food induced trigger, we discover we have discipline...we no longer have to eat all the time...

 

[woodywhippet61]

Often it is the breaking of a hormonal induced addiction. Once we find and break that trigger, typically a food induced trigger, we discover we have discipline...we no longer have to eat all the time...

If only it was that easy.

 

[ickihun]

If only it was that easy.

When i went very low carb i stop craving. Carb craving. Then i started craving protein in carbs absence. Now i have the right amounts to stop cravings of either. No cravings to interfer with reducing insulin injected units.
Which ive reduced hugely thid year and more to reduce slowly next year. I'm very optimistic!
Hormones ie. Insulin, overproduction reduced for IR to be reduced, for me.

 

[Dark Horse]

Hmm



And DUK's soliciting for donations to fund more research. Which is nice, but being an old cynic, I'd much prefer them to PUT A COPY OF THE PAPER ON THEIR WEBSITE!

The Lancet is a prestigious, high impact journal, but $31 is a bit steep to read the results DUK's funded. Naturally I'm curious if this is any different to the recommendations here for a low carb diets, and also if any of the people enrolled in the trial gained weight and went back to being T2. Oh, and being cynical again, whether sachets of the Newcastle diet will be sold to the NHS or in health food shops..

Does this help? http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac...ancecentre/files/low-calorie-diet-article.pdf

 

[first14808]

Ye, very much! Bit late to read and digest now, but thank you for linking it