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Newcastle diet Magic 800 cals

Not sure what you mean, @Andy_Warlow ?
The meal replacements are meant to be used for no longer than 12 weeks. After that you need to have a change to your way of eating. The Newcastle diet team suggest a reduction of about a third compared to what you ate prior to the calorie reduction phase. Prior to following the ND my diet had been the recommended NHS Eatwell style diet. Later I discovered low carbing and stick to that now. That is sustainable. If I had followed the high carb NHS recommended diet, I doubt I would have maintained good blood glucose levels, and would regain all the weight.
 
No
Crash dieting is well known to be useless for most people for sustainable weight loss..
It leads to lower metabolic rates and usually all the lost weight is regained as soon as starvation stops (with a few extra pounds for good measure).
The "Biggest Loser" study was a pretty damning indictment of this method of weight loss.
 
Lipidz said:
Out of curiosity which shakes are these? I'm looking to try the Newcastle study diet but I'm not sure where to look for the best priced shakes which offer the correct nutritional values.

Would appreciate any suggestions, thanks!
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Hi. I did this a few years back and tried a wile lot of different shakes. Taste wise I found slim fast the best. Other than that the cheaper Asda ones work the same sort of way with a very similar vitamin profile , as far as I could see.
 
I did 6 weeks of the ND about 5 years ago, I lost around 3 stones in that period of time (I didn't complete the full 6 weeks as I had protein cravings so badly I was dreaming about roast chicken ) I follow a low carb (but uncounted) way of eating now and I've lost in total about 5 stone, and kept it off (apart from a wobble earlier this year when I wasn't in the best place mental health wise and was binging on bread)Michael Mosley's Blood sugar diet is an 800 cals VLCD, but you need to plan your eating meticulously if you're going to do it, shakes are usually a lot more covenant. I did try to do another round of ND to try and get back on the wagon during lent, but gave up after about a week as I found the shakes were just too sweet to my taste buds now.
 
I've tried ND twice and I used shakes the first time around too. Convenience, and reliability of calorie count, and wanting to be close to the conditions of the study. The second time around I did 1 did only 1 shake per day and real foods for the rest.
 
Just to give my experience for anyone thinking of doing the Newcastle Diet.
Firstly does it work. If you are trying to reverse diabetes I can't comment on that - I think that has to be carefully followed by a medical professional.
Will it get your weight down - definately yes. Follow correctly its a very low calorie diet. 800 calories is very little.
What can I tell you about it?
It's hard but not impossible. Why isn't it impossible - its because its very simple.
The 800 calories can be in any form you want but I think it works best with the shakes / bars / packaged soups etc because it simplifies it.
It can be as simple as 3 shakes a day and about 200 calories of vegetables.
For me anyway that makes it easier than other diets because it reduces choice completely. It makes the rules of the diet very simple. Unless its in a packet or its green you can't eat it.
All other diets is about food reduction but it can be very hard to stop eating a little bit more or giving yourself a larger portion.
The other strange thing is that I'm using Exante products. I have to say I like the taste of non of them. It's really reduced my desire to eat/drink them. They either smell or taste quite odd. Optifast shakes are much sweeter and palatable. I started with their shakes but ended up buying the Exante because Optifast seemed to be hard to get. The Exante products have really helped because I don't like them. Nothing really tastes likes its labeled. I don't look forward to eat it.
Of course drinking lots of water is important something I've always struggled with but the Exantate products make me want to wash my mouth out after eating, some seems salty but its probably more whey/soya taste.
I'm at the end of 6 weeks. I'm down 2 stones. Weight isn't a constant downward trend (it is at the start). Going slightly up can be demoralising but you need to persist.
I bought Roy Taylor's book on the diet but its not great. The book is mainly about the doom and gloom of Diabetes. It says very little about the diet itself (its covered in a few pages). There is very little about the experience of the diet or how people coped to sustain the diet and afterwards. Those who were successful must have had better habits to those who didn't. That insight would have been interesting. There is a risk of gallstones but its brushed over of something like 1 out of 164 were impacted. That's not insignificant odds. Eat alot of veg and drink alot of water and you'd be fine. It wasn't very convincing. It also wasn't clear is there other downsides to 800cal a day. The premade food is full of vitamins but you could be missing something else or if you did it with your own meals you might be missing vitamins. The experiences of people after the study (being in a study obviously improves people's compliance) and how successful they were at maintaining the weight loss was not detailed either.
I think the instant results really help. Its probably healthier to have a more gradual weight reduction but fatigue sets in.
I've been on diets before and dedication fades after a while and especially after setbacks of a slight gain.
In this diet, I feel better and lighter and slimmer. I've had to get new clothes are the old clothes are too big.
It's very motivating.
I've two weeks to go before reintroducing meals. This is a tricky time. I am hungry alot.
I find weekdays and working easier than weekends when there is more opportunity to eat or others in the house and enjoying nice meals.
8 weeks in one way is not that long to do this for but in reality 8 weeks of hunger is difficult.
I am completely aware there is a long history of people just piling back on the weight after going back to normal.
I think this is so hard and I've come so far and I realise how little I really need to eat I do think I can avoid going back to my old habits which were leading me to the edge of the cliff. Time will tell but I'm quite determined.
Losing two stone really has made things like exercise much easier.
I surprisingly have more energy and more go in me.
I would certainly recommend looking into the Newcastle Diet. While I can't say it will cure your type II diabetes you would certainly benefit from the weight loss.
 
I think having liquid calories is pretty tough when dropping calories that low.

I’ve been playing around with low calories, the metabolic response is great. Body seems to go into pull mode. The mental thing is tough, as every cell in your body is whining lol.

what works for me is a meal like:
200g chicken breast
200g broccoli
A few walnuts and blueberries on top
Washed down with a sugar free BCAA drink.

Swap out the meat and veggies with others in the same calorie range.

add one cheat meal or two a week to help with compliance.

you have to mentally take control of your metabolism to prevent it from crashing, you have to take over the NEAT.
 
Hi @Hector1970

Congratulations on the weight loss and a great summary of your experience on the Newcastle diet 6 weeks in. It certainly was similar to my experience. I still think it is a great intervention for anyone with Type 2 who is overweight or obese and certainly can return many to normal BG Levels in a short period. As an intervention the real challenge is to frame an ongoing diet after the 8 weeks. The keys are testing BG and restricting carbs and some regular exercise (even walking). Good luck with the remaining 2 weeks and developing your post Newcastle diet eating plan
 
Hi, I've just joined this forum - I've had type 2 for around 5 years and decided to try the Newcastle diet. 5 weeks in, I've lost 7kg and plan to continue until I've lost the full recommended 15kg. I've been using normal foods, just in small and measured quantities and have used a spreadsheet to calculate my daily calorific intake. I eat one small meal (200 - 250 cal) mid-morning, sometimes an apple in the afternoon (~60 cal) and a larger meal in the evening (500 - 550 cal).

Anyhow, my question to all of you is: how do I know whether I have beaten diabetes? I take metformin and that, together with a relatively low carb diet, has controlled the condition quite well over the past few years. I guess I would have to stop the metformin, eat 'normally' and measure my blood levels. What times of day would make most sense to test? I don't want to be testing myself too often but I could over a short period. What have others done?
 


Sorry to say that the ND "worked" for up to 2 years for a minority of trial participants.

If you have been well controlled over the past few years with metformin and low carb why the sudden desire to change?

The usual NHS measure for remission is 2 or 3 HbA1c less than 48 mmol/mol although personally I'd be aiming for sub 40 HbA1c.
Are you currently measuring your blood sugar levels?
An apple would give me a spike (or would have pre remission days) what kind of meals are you eating?
I'll guess that low carb low cal might be easier than high carb low cal..
 
Moving away from the 800calories diet should happen, it’s very drastic and not healthy I believe long term.

Unfortunately beaten diabetes for T2 doesn’t usually happen in the way you describe. We can move to a remission but very often eating “normally” will spike us into diabetic levels again. I have lost a load of weight and am drug free but my levels will go back to diabetic if I eat the wrong foods

as in, potatoes, rice, pasta, fruit… Low carb is for life, it might with weight loss allow a bit more freedom, I can go to more carbs than some but I don’t see I can ever eat normally again

maybe in sone cases there is a full reversal, I was in > diabetic range for a very long time but on the whole, I just think you have to be wary as old ways are a path back to where you were for many
 

You're only suppose to follow for a maximum of 8 weeks I lost about 3 1/2 stone in 6 weeks then "fell off" not due to hunger, but protein cravings (I was dreaming about roast chicken) transitioned to a low(er)carb way of eating, kept that loss off and have manged to (slowly) lose another couple of stones. Still need to lose more (approx 4 stone), but my BG's are stable atm. I did try another round of ND earlier in the year, but found the shakes to sweet to my adjusted tastebuds
 
For all you type 2s thinking about the Magic 800 or Newcastle Diet, BulkBiker has done a great job of pointing out the pitfalls of a very low calorie diet like this:
It works because your body will strip away liver fat then pancreatic fat first as also observered in bariatric patients prior to serious weight loss.
But the ability to maintain remission whilst better than standard care (Eatwell high car, low fat - Eat less,Move More etc. etc). but that is not saying much -are not as good as low carb (see Virta Health). The latter used patients of any duration diabetes some of whom were already further on in their diabetes and treated with insulin.
It was a useful way to establish the principle that diabetes can be resolved . The next research question to be answered by Diabetes UK and the Direct team is whether the same result can be achieved without 15kg weight loss but with the loss of the fat that is in the wrong places (visceral) which surely implies a low carb diet.
To cut to the chase Virta Health have shown impressive results with an unrestricted (other than carbs) keto diet. Google Virta Health Research. This doesn't get the attention it deserves because the research was not in the UK and not deemed to be randomised (note that the Newcastle was not randomised at the individual level either but at GP surgery level).
Shakes have their advantages if you want a rapid result that is NICE/NHS approved and is convenient but everyone neds to consider what next?
 
Taylor has stated that it's just a diet plan for those who like to follow regiment.
It's the weight loss that is ultimately important.
Also, to benefit from this drastic diet you need to be sure you're the subset whose insulin resistance is completely down to visceral fat.
Taylor cherry picked his subjects to be overweight/obese & with diabetes duration of <6 years.

The other way is the low carb (e.g. Virta Health) plan.
You'll have the added benefit of weight loss due to lower insulin levels, better glucose levels & greater overall health.
 
Ronancastled said:
The other way is the low carb (e.g. Virta Health) plan.
You'll have the added benefit of weight loss due to lower insulin levels, better glucose levels & greater overall health.
Click to expand...
Plus, you won't be damaging your metabolism by eating too little.
 
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