Newcastle diet starting Monday, done it once who gonna join me on my journey??

[Pipp]

Ah, right, thanks.

Hi Pipp

I want to give myself a chance of putting diabetes into remission or reverse it. My fallback plan is lchf with help of which I have got from 142 to 39 but if possible I want to enjoy an odd treat and not think about carbs all the time. I am super super strict with myself and that's the reason of so much fall in a1c and that is without any exercise as I don't have time to do it coz unfortunately I have a 15 hour day home to office to back home and then leaves me no time for anything else. But if I want atleast as a one off treat I can eat the same meal as my wife who's actually stopped eating pretty much everything she loved and I feel bad about that. If these 8 weeks can give me that I'd be more than happy. Right now coz I don't eat I can go for walks on lunchtime. Just trying my best to do whatever I can to get better. I plan to go back to lchf with odd treats. I know these odd treats can soon takeover the lchf path but I know I can keep them as treats only and if I do manage to have one treat too many then I can slap myself on the back very well too.
As far as calories go I have 3 shakes 130 135 cals each making up about 400 cals and I just have black coffee or mint tea fresh one. The soup that I have I made with the list of veggies in ND but 200 grams of that soup can't be 200 calories as if I make myself a 50 calorie salad that's huge which is what I had yesterday and I weighed each and every item I put in. The soup has so much water 200 grams will not have 200 cals. I don't even use stock I use plain water to make them. Thats the reason why I am on 500 cals and not going higher. I don't know if I am doing right or not.

I understand now. From what I have seen in forum, people who use LCHF method tend to have good control, but still have foods that cause spikes in BG. So you want to try ND for 'reversal' so you no longer get spikes?

I wonder if having 4 of the Shake that Weight products a day would stop you feeling as though you are having hypos? You really don't need to go below 800 cals daily.

 

[Pipp]

So day two in the newcastle diet house
Had a good nights sleep not up once for the toilet which is a first recently, actually felt awake when I woke up, checked bloods at 7am, yesterday 13.......today 7.9!!!!! This is why I'm doing the ND the results are really quick, this time though I'm going to go for 8 weeks then follow a low fat low carb diet to maintain it.
Anyone out there who is undecided about it, yes it's not easy, yes you will struggle occasionally, but when you see your figures plummet, you lose weight and the look of incredulity on your nurse or GPs face when you get you hba1c results after three months and they are non diabetic levels is an amazing feeling.
What's two months? Then set up for rest of your life hopefully meds free and healthy.

Good going! Well done!

 

[geordie90]

I think people are getting confused about the ND. In reality as much as I'd like to think it is the ND isn't a cure for T2 it's a kick start to get your levels down to a safe point, by virtue of the limited calories taken in you will also lose weight as a 'side effect' but as my own personal experience shows you CAN never go back to your old ways of eating, I did and that's why I'm here again, I won't fall into that trap again, yes once completed I will be on a low carb low fat diet but you know wat if occasionally I fancy a huge plate of chips or three slices of thick white bread with lurpak, I'm going to have them, you can't live like a monk forever but they will be occasional and as a treat not every day.
What the diet tells me is that disbetes is controllable by wat you put in your mouth and there is only one person who is able to control that............YOU.
I'm
Terribly weak willed but am determined to get out of those habits and train my mind to accept that I don't need to eat the rubbish I was, off soap box now

 

[brettsza]

Ah, right, thanks.

I understand now. From what I have seen in forum, people who use LCHF method tend to have good control, but still have foods that cause spikes in BG. So you want to try ND for 'reversal' so you no longer get spikes?

I wonder if having 4 of the Shake that Weight products a day would stop you feeling as though you are having hypos? You really don't need to go below 800 cals daily.

Exactly pipp that is my intention, my weight is ok I am on healthy side of BMI so I dont have that problem and no excess fat really, but I still have lost an inch off my waist in less than a week now. I will take the walking a little lightly now as 4 miles is probably taking a toll on me, I am perfectly alright today so may be it was a one off sort of a thing.

@geordie90 as you said its difficult to be a monk, exactly that is the reason I want to do the ND, I will never go back to the original way of eating, I will miss my carbs but not sweet coz never had a sweet tooth. A one off treat does not really take my level sky high, it goes to about 7 at the max but then settles in 6 and stays there for some time. May be this will get it back to 4 sooner than that.

I am not hoping it will cure me, I still have to be sensible and do some exercise but I want to give myself a chance to change things for good for me and my family.

 

[Glitterbritches]

Ah, right, thanks.

I understand now. From what I have seen in forum, people who use LCHF method tend to have good control, but still have foods that cause spikes in BG. So you want to try ND for 'reversal' so you no longer get spikes?

I wonder if having 4 of the Shake that Weight products a day would stop you feeling as though you are having hypos? You really don't need to go below 800 cals daily.

I second Pipp's thoughts. The recent peer reviewed VLCD literature indicates that someone on 500 calories a day loses weight no faster than someone on 800 calories a day - roughly speaking, there is only so much fat your body can burn in one day, regardless of calorie intake.

Women are different, so maybe the floor is 600, but either way, when your calorie intake is this low I don't personally see the harm in upping your intake a bit. And please, try to work exercise into your plan - you can do a lot with just 20 minutes of floor exercises (sit-ups/push ups, modified for your health level if necessary, back exercises, body weight squats and lunges, burpies, thrusters . . . Lots of ways!) exercise on a VLCD has many benefits, the chief of which is that you lose less lean muscle mass (and you will lose lean muscle mass). That lean muscle mass is sooo important to keeping your metabolism going and helping with insulin sensitivity.

Trust me, I work 10-14 hours a day (not even counting commute) and I was able to make time to exercise, after decades of telling myself I didn't have the time. Hell, think of all the time you are no longer spending preparing food! Exercise just has so many benefits for everyone, but is three times as important for type 2 diabetics. Daily exercise is the rough equivalent of taking a drug like Metformin; find the time and your body will thank you. Moreover, once you develop the habit, it'll carry through after the diet is over and help you for the rest of your (much longer) life.

 

[Pipp]

I think people are getting confused about the ND. In reality as much as I'd like to think it is the ND isn't a cure for T2 it's a kick start to get your levels down to a safe point, by virtue of the limited calories taken in you will also lose weight as a 'side effect' but as my own personal experience shows you CAN never go back to your old ways of eating, I did and that's why I'm here again, I won't fall into that trap again, yes once completed I will be on a low carb low fat diet but you know wat if occasionally I fancy a huge plate of chips or three slices of thick white bread with lurpak, I'm going to have them, you can't live like a monk forever but they will be occasional and as a treat not every day.
What the diet tells me is that disbetes is controllable by wat you put in your mouth and there is only one person who is able to control that............YOU.
I'm
Terribly weak willed but am determined to get out of those habits and train my mind to accept that I don't need to eat the rubbish I was, off soap box now

Hold that thought! Three years ago I was thinking just like that. Slowly but surely the occasional deviation from being sensible ( i use the term 'deviation', because 'treats' are not something that should harm you) became more regular. The weight gain followed. As yet the raised BG has not happened, but I have been playing with fire.
I think we all need to change our mindset here. Would we encourage a drug addict to have an occasional fix as a treat? I think not. Therefore we have to stop regarding high carb foods as treats, and see them as the harmful substances they really are. Treats have got to be something that will not damage us.

 

[Arab Horse]

"Treats have got to be something that will not damage us."

Treats possibly may not damage us so long as they are kept as treats and not something we eat regularly and certainly not in large amounts. I am hoping to be able to go back to having egg on toast occasionally instead of an omelette every day for breakfast. Maybe even my bran flakes with seed sprinkle and berries - I always thought that was healthy! Once I have done the ND I am thinking of adopting a modified 5:2 diet to stop any fat accumulating in my liver and pancreas if the diet is successful for me.

 

[Glitterbritches]

Hold that thought! Three years ago I was thinking just like that. Slowly but surely the occasional deviation from being sensible ( i use the term 'deviation', because 'treats' are not something that should harm you) became more regular. The weight gain followed. As yet the raised BG has not happened, but I have been playing with fire.
I think we all need to change our mindset here. Would we encourage a drug addict to have an occasional fix as a treat? I think not. Therefore we have to stop regarding high carb foods as treats, and see them as the harmful substances they really are. Treats have got to be something that will not damage us.

Spot on, but I have a slightly different take; you can indeed "treat yourself" (if you are non diabetic) by watching your calories. Your treat needs to be a substitute for other calories during the day, not in addition to them, and/or needs to be worked off with exercise. You need to find (and constantly reevaluate) your personal weekly caloric intake for maintaining a healthy weight, whatever that may be. Exercise and fitness level will bring that number up, age and other factors will bring that number down. But, absent a BG spike (which rules out treats of that kind for T2 diabetics as it wrecks control) a "treat" can indeed be a treat if you account for it. If you don't, like Pipp said, you are just damaging yourself long term for a very fleeting sensation at best.

Food is fuel.

 

[AndBreathe]

Spot on, but I have a slightly different take; you can indeed "treat yourself" (if you are non diabetic) by watching your calories. Your treat needs to be a substitute for other calories during the day, not in addition to them, and/or needs to be worked off with exercise. You need to find (and constantly reevaluate) your personal weekly caloric intake for maintaining a healthy weight, whatever that may be. Exercise and fitness level will bring that number up, age and other factors will bring that number down. But, absent a BG spike (which rules out treats of that kind for T2 diabetics as it wrecks control) a "treat" can indeed be a treat if you account for it. If you don't, like Pipp said, you are just damaging yourself long term for a very fleeting sensation at best.

Food is fuel.

Unfortunately, I don't believe all calories are equal, so whilst I agree that food is fuel, I believe ones body would function differently on a clarify balance diet based on hot cross buns or toast, than on something with controls over the carb content.

Who knows who is misguided here, but for those who are firmly established on ketogenic diets, there does appear to be an ability consume more calories than those eating more carbs and not in nutritional ketosis.

I eat a reduced carb diet, and am happy to continue with that. It seems to work for me, I just can't buy the theory it's a simple energy in/energy out equation. I am hoping Professor Taylor's current, 5year study, will bring us much more insight into the longer term impact on a larger population. Until then, we each just have to do what seems best for us.

 

[DannyMac]

What is the diet

 

[geordie90]

Look up the 'Newcastle diet' on this forum

 

[scottish-jim]

@DannyMac - http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/newcastle-study-600-calorie-diet.html

Sorry geordie90 thought I'd help the new member

 

[Pipp]

I will have a look and get back to you. Limited time online at the moment.
I have tended not to worry too much about the quantity of veg. Usually base homemade soups on celery leeks and green veg, with herbs for flavour. If I am going to do this again properly then I need to study the options. My original ND was with Lipotrim, which is Total Food Replacement, so didn't have to concern myself with any other food. Will read up the Newcastle papers and Shake that Weight literature and report back. I won't be making a start for about a week though. Got too much going on at the moment to be committed to it. It had to be perfect!

@brettsza
I have been reading up on the Shake that Weight website.

They have specific methods for ways of using the products based on BMI. In your case, it appears to me that you should be having around 1000 calories a day. Have a look and see what you think. As you are not overweight, and your HbA1c is looking good, I have reservations as to whether your extreme restriction in calorie intake to 600 a day is right for you. Would hate it if you made yourself ill. Also, would not like you to report ND has failed you. Sorry if this sounds gloomy, but maybe you need to rethink?

 

[Pipp]

Hello @DannyMac
Welcome. @scottish-jim beat me to the link. Have a look. See what you think. Talk to us.

 

[geordie90]

Tested myself teatime 7.9, hour in gym then pork loin and green vegetables two hours after tested and 7.2 happy with that too all moving in right direction

 

[Indy51]

I will be starting ND soon. I am not a typical T2 as I was normal weight and only found I was diabetic when I went for my free NHS health check; was gobsmacked to find I had a glicose of 18.6mmol/L and an HbA1c of 10.4%; I was totally asymptomatic which the DN found hard to believe. As I am a biomedical scientist I knew exactly what that meant!

I started LCHF diet after several months of NHS recommended diet and struggling with my glucose levels (with carbs and very low fat, I even got some You Wouldn't Believe It's Not Butter instead of butter) and when I came on this site and lost 1 and a half stone putting me underweight at 7 stone (5' 3" tall) but thought I might be thin outside/fat inside. My DN (never seen my Dr) didn't want me to do the ND although she didn't really know much about it so arranged a liver scan for me which I was told would take about 2 weeks to get the results. I had the scan yesterday and was told my liver and pancreas were fine and they also did an abdominal scan so everything good. Guy doing the scan asked me why I was having it and when I told him he said I really mustn't lose any more weight but I am doing the ND in the hope of being able to eat more normally as at the moment I can't really have any carbs without my glucose going up; I don't want to gorge or eat unhealthily, just sometimes have a treat, a potato, a slice of bread etc.

I was expecting to have to wait until after Easter to start the ND and have a few things arranged over Easter which involve me as the driver to get to events so don't want to risk feeling unable to drive and letting people down so I will start as planned after Easter. If I had known I would get my result yesterday I would have said no to the driving this time!

Good luck to all of you on the diet, I will join you in a couple of weeks.

If you are already underweight AND the scan shows no sign of visceral fat, I'd be very cautious about doing the ND against medical advice. Since the point of the diet is to lose visceral fat, what's the point if you have none to lose? Have you had the tests to rule out LADA?

 

[Reama]

I'm starting the diet tomorrow. I am also "underweight", though I'm 13 pounds (I think this is almost one stone) heavier than I was in high school, when I was healthy and active. I had an abdominal ultrasound done 5 years ago for other reasons, and it incidentally listed "fatty changes" in the liver, so although my BMI is 18, looks like it would help to return to my high school weight. I had beta cell antibody levels checked several times during the last 10 years, and always negative.

Professor Taylor has a new article out (at least new to me; published in January 2015). Figure one shows a graph of BMIs relative to number of people with type 2 diabetes studied under the UKPDS; the bell curve does go down to a low of about a BMI of 15 (which I think is amazing)!
The article is titled Normal Weight Individuals Who Develop Type 2 Diabetes:the Personal Fat Threshhold.

Arab Horse, I'm wondering whether the radiologist who read your scan didn't bother to mention fatty changes if he maybe considered them insignificant? You might consider specifically asking them to review the scan again for any fatty changes. You may have already done this.

Reama

 

[Indy51]

@Reama, interestingly enough, Prof Taylor said in his Diabetes Summit interview something along the lines of: you know you're the right weight if you can fit into the pants you wore as a 21 year old

Unfortunately I no longer have pants I wore at that age, but I know for sure I was about 8 kg less than I am now

 

[brettsza]

@brettsza
I have been reading up on the Shake that Weight website.

They have specific methods for ways of using the products based on BMI. In your case, it appears to me that you should be having around 1000 calories a day. Have a look and see what you think. As you are not overweight, and your HbA1c is looking good, I have reservations as to whether your extreme restriction in calorie intake to 600 a day is right for you. Would hate it if you made yourself ill. Also, would not like you to report ND has failed you. Sorry if this sounds gloomy, but maybe you need to rethink?

Hi Pipp

You are right but as per nd I should loose a sixth of my weight and that's about 12 kilos in my case and I have lost 6 already in a week. I might have to up my calories a little bit otherwise I might just loose way too much.

 

[geordie90]

Day three in the Newcastle diet house
Got up this morning took dogs for walk came in check blood it is now 6.8 which I'm delighted with from a starting figure of 13 on Monday in 3 days I have halved my sugars! quite amusing really and I'm not hungry etc