Newcastle Diet - to follow it and do shakes and veg, or deviate?

[NoCrbs4Me]

Just starting to drink espresso again after two weeks of no coffee. I hope it gives the metabolism a kick.

Wow - impressive!

 

[memememeiii]

It is, but I'm not impressed re. the lack of a drop over the past three days. I've literally eaten so little - I should have dropped at least a pound (so my mind says). The body is a miracle worker, really. I went to the gym and did 20 min on the treadmill and 10 swimming. I know I need to get that up to 90 min a day, but it's cold here. I did better in the Middle East. Hot country. Agrees with me more. But pushing on.

I'd LOVE to know the effects of exercise on everyone's results.

MM

 

[AloeSvea]

My point exactly, glad you finally agree.
The only realistic diet is the original, and it doesn't need to be messed with to make it work.
The new version is shake only, so I guess you can read the results of that.

Hmmm. Yes Agree with NoCarbs - this can get bamboozlingly confusing. I am thinking through this issue myself at the moment. The problem is, because the Newcastle Diet isn't being officially recommended (perhaps?) - there is a lack of nutritional rationale being posted on the Newcastle Uni site - hence this thread I guess (and why I am reading it too, natch.) We don't know the rationale for the first 600 cals being liquid, nor why some veges are approved why some aren't. But, and this is a big but, corn syrup and sugar is OK in the optifast sachets. (Argh from me! I wouldn't dream of knowingly eating corn syrup ,and sugar, two or more times a day let alone for 8 weeks.) But the ND doesn't deal with the quality of food it seems - just the calorie content (and whether most of it is liquid?) and the fat content I guess, but there was that message from Prof Taylor on this site saying dietary fat has been added to it this time round. (Whew.) But who knows? We don't for sure!

 

[AloeSvea]

[

I didn't use shakes ate normal food and had the same results. If you cannot handle the shakes be creative. For me carrot sticks were my life saver. Fibrous and stopped me feeling hungry. I still eat bags of them per week.

Thanks heaps for contributing this - great to see that food can suffice to do the same thing. And the carrot sticks tip.

 

[AndBreathe]

[


Thanks heaps for contributing this - great to see that food can suffice to do the same thing. And the carrot sticks tip.

Aloe - Although Professor Taylor wouldn't give you personal advice on what you should do, he is extremely personable and communicative. If you email him, if you have any specific questions, I'm sure he'll respond. For various reasons a number of us have been in contact with the man.

I haven't used the diet myself.

 

[andcol]

It is, but I'm not impressed re. the lack of a drop over the past three days. I've literally eaten so little - I should have dropped at least a pound (so my mind says). The body is a miracle worker, really. I went to the gym and did 20 min on the treadmill and 10 swimming. I know I need to get that up to 90 min a day, but it's cold here. I did better in the Middle East. Hot country. Agrees with me more. But pushing on.

I'd LOVE to know the effects of exercise on everyone's results.

MM

So here is my weight/weight loss graph over the last year

If you look a couple of weeks in from the start I actually put weight on for a couple of days and shows other points where I jumped and plateaued. I only added points on the mornings my weigh varied so a gap means I didnt change. Don't get disheartened it will start again and muscle is much heavier than fat so just starting exercise you will be adding extra. Also note that while you are rapidly losing weight your BP and cholesterol will be unpredictable.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

So here is my weight/weight loss graph over the last year

If you look a couple of weeks in from the start I actually put weight on for a couple of days and shows other points where I jumped and plateaued. I only added points on the mornings my weigh varied so a gap means I didnt change. Don't get disheartened it will start again and muscle is much heavier than fat so just starting exercise you will be adding extra. Also note that while you are rapidly losing weight your BP and cholesterol will be unpredictable.

Were you on the Newcastle for a year?

 

[andcol]

no i did low very low calorie for about 2 months and then increased my intake by just increasing the quantities of what I was eating. I then did many months of increasing carbs substantially up to about 300g or more/day.

 

[memememeiii]

So glad there are such experienced people on this site. Thanks, guys. I'm at Day 18 - 24 pounds off. It took 4 days to lose 2 pounds this time. I hope it continues. I'm also sick sick sick of salads. No point in whinging about it, but I'm off to a conference this weekend and had to cancel my meals at the hotel, and there will be free food all over the place - that I can't eat. I went for a walk tonight and just tried to forget about food. It helped. Gum is about to become my new friend.

I'm going to persist with this diet as long as I can, but my steely nerve is starting to bend. I half thought about 'cheating' for the four days I'm away and eating what I want, all healthy, of course...then decided...no. On with the show, then.

One more Q: I'm sure it's on the site somewhere: what is normal BG supposed to look like, and are you saying, you've been slowly adding carbs out of fear you'll revert back to 'diabetic'? What kind of carbs have you been adding, out of interest?

MM.

 

[Mike d]

Your HB1AC should ideally be around 5.9 % / 41 mmol / mol or lower. That is considered as excellent (non diabetic) 46 to 42 is also VERY VERY good.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

This might help as well with explaining what is normal:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php

I reduced carbs as well over time. Then, since I felt so much better, I just kept the intake low. For some odd reason I function much better on very low carbs. I think everyone needs to experiment a little to figure out what works for them.

 

[andcol]

One more Q: I'm sure it's on the site somewhere: what is normal BG supposed to look like, and are you saying, you've been slowly adding carbs out of fear you'll revert back to 'diabetic'? What kind of carbs have you been adding, out of interest?

MM.

This is the thread (see link below) I created after coming off the low cal/carb part of my diet and increased the carb levels. No fear involved just practicality really and a total basketful of curiosity to see where I could take it. After that thread I went further and added licorice and other sweet luxuries (36g carb per stick in one gorgeous delicious black yummy flavoursome lump - and it hardly registered on my BG meter). So just keep in your minds eye that there is a target that you are aiming for and you aren't just doing it for some fad. Good luck.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/moving-from-low-carb-to-higher-levels.58491

 

[AloeSvea]

It's very encouraging to read the remission/reversal HBA1c's up there, and see the variations and personal adaptations to the VLCD as designed by the Newcastle study folk. And everyone's reasons for the variations. (I wouldn't use the word 'deviate' because of the negative connotation - but it sure sounded fun to read! Not to mention do. I enjoyed that - the deviating.) I was figuring out my own version of the Newcastle Diet in the last month or so, and started it yesterday, and it really helped reading these posts. I'm using a combo of green juice, the Newcastle diet style vege dish, and 'real food' homemade soup. I'm basically a paleobetic normally, with some dairy adaptation, so I could not imagine taking those shakes myself although I do understand the desire to stick to the Newcastle Diet how it was designed. And using the optifast or some equivalent would prevent the need to endlessly count calories - which is a crashing bore. I have been unsure about how to add the fat (I have a gallstone - ouch!) - and don't want my gallbladder to play up so was very interested to see Jack's (I think it was) contribution elsewhere on the forum of Prof Taylor's e-speaking to him of additional dietary fat in the diet, this time round, due to the gallstone issue, and other helpful souls translating that into caloric content. I am very grateful for that! Today I am just plain miserable and very irritable - but this forum is a treat to see how others have travelled this journey, or a similar journey at least. And put their T2D into remission/reversal! Inspirational indeed. I may be hungry and irritable, and it was damned hard to move my legs today - but I am very grateful for this forum! And this discussion.

 

[andcol]

It's very encouraging to read the remission/reversal HBA1c's up there, and see the variations and personal adaptations to the VLCD as designed by the Newcastle study folk. And everyone's reasons for the variations. (I wouldn't use the word 'deviate' because of the negative connotation - but it sure sounded fun to read! Not to mention do. I enjoyed that - the deviating.) I was figuring out my own version of the Newcastle Diet in the last month or so, and started it yesterday, and it really helped reading these posts. I'm using a combo of green juice, the Newcastle diet style vege dish, and 'real food' homemade soup. I'm basically a paleobetic normally, with some dairy adaptation, so I could not imagine taking those shakes myself although I do understand the desire to stick to the Newcastle Diet how it was designed. And using the optifast or some equivalent would prevent the need to endlessly count calories - which is a crashing bore. I have been unsure about how to add the fat (I have a gallstone - ouch!) - and don't want my gallbladder to play up so was very interested to see Jack's (I think it was) contribution elsewhere on the forum of Prof Taylor's e-speaking to him of additional dietary fat in the diet, this time round, due to the gallstone issue, and other helpful souls translating that into caloric content. I am very grateful for that! Today I am just plain miserable and very irritable - but this forum is a treat to see how others have travelled this journey, or a similar journey at least. And put their T2D into remission/reversal! Inspirational indeed. I may be hungry and irritable, and it was damned hard to move my legs today - but I am very grateful for this forum! And this discussion.

Good luck and I hope it works for you. remember to drink lots - for me it was gallons of black darjeeling tea

 

[AloeSvea]

Good luck and I hope it works for you. remember to drink lots - for me it was gallons of black darjeeling tea

Yes, quite right. I started keeping a track on what I was drinking on day 2, as I realised it wasn't anywhere near the 3 litres stipulated by Newcastle uni. Will do.

 

[AloeSvea]

I just wanted to add my two cents worth on doing a deviated Newcastle, after being on a VLCD for two weeks now. After reading in here, and doing a bit more research on the classic Newcastle Diet (using meal replacement sachets of drinks and soup), and listening to Prof Taylor's November 2014 lecture online more than a couple of times, I came to the conclusion (as others have attested to and reaffirmed in this forum) - that indeed the light is green on choosing your own food and way to be very low calorie, as long as you DO be very low calorie. And that the meal replacement sachets worked really well for the purposes of the study but did not need to be replicated at home. (Totally understand why some folks would choose to do it though - for convenience and ease of calorie counting.)
So I quit the liquid idea I began on, and changed over to food. Then I could eat 'mini' versions of what I like to eat normally, post diagnosis, which for me is a paleo diet. So my deviation of the Newcastle diet is to do a "mini-Paleo Very Low Calorie Diet." This suits me better as I can keep a track of my nutritional requirements that way, on a diet that has worked for me for four months or so previously. And eating real solid food, as opposed to 600 calories of liquid meal replacements or soup and green juice (which Is what I had been imagining I was going to do) - helped me hugely with feeling somewhat more satiated. (Sigh, if only satiated is what I feel! But more than I would feel on soup and green juices only and only one veg dish a day, is my experience).
Reading other's experience's doing VLCD with 'real food', ie much decreased portions of what they normally ate as healthy diabetics, was hugely helpful. The mini carrots were a great idea! And I eat them with kimchi (soured carrots and cabbage for probiotics/gut health). And I spent a LOT of money on a LOT of herb teas, and they get me through the long periods of time in the afternoon and evening when I am not eating home-popped popcorn and baking made from nut flours. (Sigh again.)
But I have, after a couple of weeks, decided to add a 100 calories so I can have a green juice in the morning, as I had started to sacrifice it in order to eat actual food instead. If it takes longer because of the extra calories in the green juice, this is OK with me - as I am concerned about having a lot of toxins and metals in my bloodstream now that the last of the fat deposits are dissipating (and they seem to be dissipating and the blood glucose readings improving). And juicing is a good way for me to get a kale and parsley boost which I think I am better off with than without.
And I will start or join a VLCD thread... somewhere... in here....will do when... if... I can....only...just stop...having to count blasted calories! (That is getting easier of course. Just took some getting used to...)

 

[andcol]

excellent - I like your style. Just the way I went. It worked for me and when I needed to increase my calories I just increased portion sizes and added a little extra of the things I like.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

excellent - I like your style. Just the way I went. It worked for me and when I needed to increase my calories I just increased portion sizes and added a little extra of the things I like.

@Andrew Colvin looking at your numbers they are monster in the size of losses. I am curious did you ever suffer neuropathy in your feet? And if you did has it now disappeared because you are now in better shape? I sense that I personally am at the threshold of losing the symptoms.

 

[andcol]

Well interestingly I used to suffer cramps and pains in the side of my feet and cramps in my calf muscles. I no longer get these but I do get a needle pain in the end of my big toes as my bloods go into the low fours I also now suffer from cold fingers and toes that get colder the lower my BG levels. I seem to be hypersensitive to my BG levels now

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Well interestingly I used to suffer cramps and pains in the side of my feet and cramps in my calf muscles. I no longer get these but I do get a needle pain in the end of my big toes as my bloods go into the low fours I also now suffer from cold fingers and toes that get colder the lower my BG levels. I seem to be hypersensitive to my BG levels now

I had bad neuropathy yesterday and then when for a 16 mile bike ride. Felt good afterwards.. I do hope I am getting away from T2. The dogs are waiting for their walk to the park .. Gotta run!