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Newcastle Diet - to follow it and do shakes and veg, or deviate?


Can you let me have the diet you sent to Prof Taylor, please? I was going to start the ND this weekend but my DN has asked for a liver scan for me as I am only 7 stone and she isn't convinced that I have a fatty liver; I think I may be fat on the inside and thin on the outside! I have a bad cold (haven't had one for about 3 years) and my fasting glucose was 7.9mmol/L this morning, quite a bit higher than usual, so I wouldn't have started the diet until my cold had gone. If I do have a fatty liver then I will do it, may even do it anyway as I need to be able to have a larger range of what I can eat!

Thanks.
 
I'm sure Prof taylor did say (to paraphrase) thatIt s OK to be a deviant as long as the nutritional requirements of the diet are followed, indeed a less rigorous diet should suffice as long as you "defatize" the organs.
 

I don't know if I can direct message you thru this website but the diet just the same as the previous posting excepting for your addition of the "E" !
 

Well, me a BIG kuumara/sweet potato fan, so what am I going to say? Keep it up! (I LOVE them oven-baked, with thyme and black pepper and garlic cloves, so they are crisp on the outside and mushy on the inside....mmmmmm.) (Too high cal for me at the mo, on this blasted Low Calorie Diet.... - so you eat them for me? .)
 
CollieBoy said:
I'm sure Prof taylor did say (to paraphrase) thatIt s OK to be a deviant as long as the nutritional requirements of the diet are followed, indeed a less rigorous diet should suffice as long as you "defatize" the organs.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is my understanding of it indeed. An official definition of Very Low Calorie Diet is 800 calories and under, apparently, so I have changed my definition of my 'deviated Newcastle Diet' to 'Low Calorie Diet' as I have upped my food count to 1000 calories a day, at my diabetes nurse's suggestion (and my own relief!) This way I can exercise more - outdoors and indoors. Apparently it really does take a few more calories to live in subarctic climes during the winter, and that is my experience. And I need to get outside to get the all-important Vitamin D from what rays of sunlight there are this far north where I am.

Semi-starvation is easier when you can move! Is my feeling. That way there is at least some moments of respite from the hunger. (The only time I don't feel hungry is when I am on a walk, or doing intensive exercise, and when I am asleep.) (Yeah, I am trying to be mildly funny - as funny as I can be about 'only when I am asleep' but it IS true.)
 

I have just read your post after me blubbering away about my own calorie count on my deviated ND.

I have to say, when reading your weight - I gasped! (I know I did the first time I read you talking about your weight as well, but I was able to get a gasp from it again .) You are only 44kg! Wow! The liver scan sounds very sensible, considering. My understanding of the fatty liver and pancreas, and personal fat threshold, and the existence of slender T2Diabetics is that you could be one of these people who it doesn't take much fat on your liver (and therefore pancreas) for insulin resistance to occur. If Prof Taylor's theory is indeed the case. (Obviously I was convinced by it, and the findings with the magnetic resonance data is mighty impressive, but it is still in barely tested stages as a theory - I know there is a big larger-scale study going on now or about to begin.) But if you go on a semi starvation diet (what a Newcastle Diet is after all) - your fat stores would probably be used up pretty pronto smart. (Like our friend Richard Doughty.) If that is the case - that you only need to do it for two weeks or less than (like Richard Doughty) - it puts it into a different perspective, no? And really good that you are going to be really closely supervised by your DN.

My own experience with those Fasting Blood Glucose readings has been the same as others doing the ND - they started getting lower very quickly , and from day 10 I have never looked back (I am on day 35 today), and my HBA1c is at prediabetic levels now, and I have what Taylor and the Newcastle team call normal FBGs. (I am aiming for really healthy FBGs though! If I can get them! Which are still somewhat out of my reach - and that is 90 mg/dL and below, and best 83 mg/dL - but as I say - that probably won't be for some time yet!). (If ever, it must be said.)
 
ApoeSvea "My own experience with those Fasting Blood Glucose readings has been the same as others doing the ND - they started getting lower very quickly , and from day 10 I have never looked back (I am on day 35 today), and my HBA1c is at prediabetic levels now, and I have what Taylor and the Newcastle team call normal FBGs. (I am aiming for really healthy FBGs though! If I can get them! Which are still somewhat out of my reach - and that is 90 mg/dL and below, and best 83 mg/dL - but as I say - that probably won't be for some time yet!). (If ever, it must be said.)"

I was just over 8 and a half stone when diagnosed and since having to almost completely cut the carbs I have lost just over a stone and a half.; I am certainly not low calories, in fact I am pretty sure if I counted I would be eating more calories than I was as I am eating more fat. I have had a bad cold this weekend and found my fasting BG was higher than it normally is, have others found this? I wouldn't have started the diet this weekend anyway as I didn't feel so good. Hoping that my liver scan is soon as it would be good to get the "starvation" over with and maybe get back to eating the occasional carb! As I am outside doing the horses quite a lot of the time and it is cold (although nothing like you seem to have) and I feel the cold I think if I could do the diet before the warmer weather arrives that too would help with my weight loss, providing I don't disappear altogether!!!!

Well done getting to day 35, keep up the good work. It would be fantastic if you reversed your diabetes. Getting back to some semblance of a normal diet would be great. My glucose at diagnosis was 18.6mmol/L (335mg/dL) and I did get down quickly once I started to do LCHF rather than what I was told to do on my diabetic education day!!!! I am sure you will too although it may take a bit longer if you are overweight to start with but you are being pro active in your treatment so the signs are good.
 
Well done getting to day 35, keep up the good work. It would be fantastic if you reversed your diabetes. Getting back to some semblance of a normal diet would be great. My glucose at diagnosis was 18.6mmol/L (335mg/dL) and I did get down quickly once I started to do LCHF rather than what I was told to do on my diabetic education day!!!! I am sure you will too although it may take a bit longer if you are overweight to start with but you are being pro active in your treatment so the signs are good.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Arab Horse! Yes - what Prof Taylor calls 'very highly health motivated'!

Yes, I do remember them talking about dealing with one's blood glucose levels when sick on my own T2D education program. I hope you get over your cold soon!

I am very pleased the LCHF is working so well for you - it's a great diet for sure, and seems to work very well for many of the T2Diabetics writing in this forum, and many people posting online.

I wasn't overweight when I began my deviated ND - although I did have some comfy fat stores still on my butt and my middle that have gone now! I also realised, after reading Richard Doughty, your posts, and thinking about my prediabetic slender mother, and my prediabetic slender sister, that my own personal fat threshold was probably going to be pretty damned slender! (But none of us are as slender as you!)

You could start a thread 'Slender Newcastle dieters'? .
 
"You could start a thread 'Slender Newcastle dieters'? ."

Or maybe "tThin Newcastle dieters".

It is interesting re weight. I come from a "thin" family. I was a tubby child while all the rest of the family were thin. I lost the weight in my teens and have never allowed myself to put it back on as I preferred being slim to being called Fatso, Jellybags and all the other things my sister called me; when my clothes got tight i was careful for a while until they were a comfortable fit again; never really dieted as such as I never allowed myself to put on enough to have to really diet. My sister has put on weight over the last few years but is diabetes free. She is an inch taller than me and now weighs just over 9 stone so maybe it was the early weight that predisposed me although I put it down to lifestyle; stressful job, very little sleep etc.
 
Bad sister! If I may be so bold to say so? (Or at least - bad-in-the-past sister!)

Yes, understood re risk factors for T2D. Blasted risk factors!
 
Hi all,

I thought that I share with you all that I got an email from Richard Doughty. He told me that he has to monitor his weight too to keep being "Un-diabetic" . Plus he added that he gets regular exercise 3+ times / week, to keep the health that he has..

Here's his latest posting on diabetes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...s-Sorry-slim-no-defence-against-diabetes.html

I suspect that I'll be doing 800 Kcals / day when I get back after a road trip I am going on..

JM
 

@Syd

I have no clue, yet the piece in the Daily Mail blows stereotypes out of the water with
"Around 10 per cent of those with type 2 diabetes — 200,000 people — are of a healthy weight."

&

"Contrary to the almost universal view of doctors that type 2 in non-obese people has a different cause from common obesity-related diabetes, the professor says it is simply a disease of too much fat for the individual."

I know once I get "Un-diabetic" I am going to give it my best to stay that way . Looks like I have a great deal of cycling in front of me..

JM
 

I would guess he probably means slightly less low carb and slightly less high fat. What diet have those who have reversed their diabetes follwed after their reversal? Anyone done it and reading this we would love to hear from you.
 
Arab Horse said:
I would guess he probably means slightly less low carb and slightly less high fat. What diet have those who have reversed their diabetes follwed after their reversal? Anyone done it and reading this we would love to hear from you.
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@Syd @Arab Horse @AloeSvea

I thought I'd share this link http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=2062 I'm starting the day with a later breakfast/lunch around 11.30ish and then having dinner earlier.. Are we that different than mice or much the same?
 

Well. We are primates - and something more similar to a chimp and a bonobo, but I have met many a person similar to rats... for sure .

But mice and we people are omnivores (which is why they do studies on mice to inform us about us isn't it? And the both being mammals thing?)

But the eating within a cerain time period thing makes sense - as there is so much about caloric restriction and longevity and so on these days (as in practicing caloric restriction can extend your life expectancy - the idea that humans have evolved with optimum health having periods of scarcity and even short fasting.). And improving blood glucose levels which is particularly interesting for we diabetics for sure.

What we eat and when we eat - very personal of course! I couldn't wait till 11.30 to have brunch, unless it was for a very good reason . And I mistrust anything about people and diets that says that quality of food isn't important. (I just won't ever buy that.) So I found that study to be a bit, well, cynical, in this :
“These days, most of the advice is, ‘You have to change nutrition, you have to eat a healthy diet,’” Panda says. “But many people don’t have access to healthy diets. So the question is, without access to a healthy diet, can they still practice time-restricted feeding and reap some benefit?”

But I get that they have people's best interests in mind. Which is good.

And anything that works for people for sure! I know I really miss the late night snacking thing, being on the deviated ND. But definitely interesting to think that the confined eating period of time thing also contributes to the good BG levels and weight loss and so on. Thanks for that - Living-by-the-beach.
 

@AloeSvea

Its not easy but I've noticed over the last two days that I am getting less neuropathy since going to an early brunch. So for the less pain I am grateful.

I suspect I've still got 10-15 lbs to go to get to that mythical weight for my PFT Personal Fat Threshold so I'll enjoy the hunger I've currently got.. I am out for a walk today towards brunch! Personally I suspect that a true cure is only going to come from folks like those at the Salk Institute & for their work I am really thrilled with their progress.

JM

PS I am in the Colorado Rockies for the weekend at an altitude of 8000'. I walked for 3/4 of an hour before catching the bus I needed to, to lunch. It wore me out here at altitude.. FWIW my feet are doing good too.
 
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I'm in my last week, last four days in fact, of my deviated Newcastle diet, aka, therapeutic VLCD - LCD.

But last week I had a rediscovered sense of awe, and regained sense of the awfulness of T2D. Just when a sense of complacency was settling in, writing up numbers and figuring out averages and so on for a final report to post in here online (no great shakes, if I can use that expression - but respectable), having gotten used to having a waist again, even a few abs, and wondering about how to keep my HBA1c going south where I want it to go, at the end of this - I had an intimate face to face with what it means to have a malfunctioning blood glucose and insulin system. I got a good slap in the face with it, indeed.

What did this? Two things.

One - big problems with my digestion. (What? Seven weeks of being on 800-1000 calories might pose some problems with food going through? The short answer, sparing details is - yes! Or - YES! Argh! lol.)

But at least I have learnt to deeply respect my digestive system, and treat this part of my bodily function with a renewed sense of care and tenderness. (I hope!) I can't go as far as to outline it online (just my own inhibitions! No reference to anyone else's descriptions of such!) but I thought I should mention it.

(I should have watched my water intake much much much more leading up to and last weekend. Let it be said as a warning.) (You can get a bit slack with something like keeping up the fluids, as time marches on, is my experience.)

Also, I would like to share that if doing a 'real food' deviated ND, I would strongly suggest taking a fibre supplement. This is what I would do if a fairy came to me and waved her wand and asked me if I could go back to the 21st of January and do something different - that would be it. I would take a good fiber supplement - to aide digestion and for healthier easier elimination, and to offset the hunger. (Feelings of hunger, of not having enough, of wanting more More MORE - never went away for me like it does for some people.) (And I know NDers in here, and Roy Taylor himself have said it is to do with the meal replacement sachets - which I guess is powdered fiber? To fill the tummy, and the push things through the digestive system.) (I wish I had thought that one through! But it took me seven weeks, alas.)

Ok, and now the second thing.

Last week I had an opportunity to get an invasive diagnostic test done free at hospital - and as it is with such services you kind of have to take the opportunity when they arise. So I decided to do it. But I stressed, and I was scared, and I was anxious - about the pain, about taking medication (which I do for procedures), and generally lolling about in cancer fear and anguish. I realise I am quite bodily sensitive - which has some really nice benefits in my life, but the downside is I really feel stuff - physically, and emotionally too I guess. And invasive diagnostics are a real bummer! (They hurt - me, at least.) Commonly called stress.

And I paid for it in terms of my fasting blood glucose level - shot up for the first time since I started my deviated ND - a whole point to the likes I saw only before being hungry for a month, and now nearly two. (ie living off my fat stores more than I have in a very long time.) (I know my fat stores are largely depleted, as I have seen it. I took photos. But no, I won't be posting them on youtube .) And when dealing with the post-procedure pain, and general anxiety - I had another couple of real diabetes days when I started the day out in the upper 6s (and so having 6s until the afternoon when they came down again).

Then the anxiety of watching my meter closely to see what will pop up. That is less than the pain and anxiety around hospitals and pain though, thank goodness - otherwise I would never have healthier blood glucose levels!

So, even though I am now officially with 'intermediate hyperglycemia' I see my malfunctioning liver and pancreas can remind me there is a problem, still, there for sure - and those precious FBGs can spike up overnight to remind me! In response to stress in my case. And if I can ever get my HBA1cs into the post-diabetic range over time, I need to see my insulin and blood glucose system as the truly awesome, and awful system it is! As a T2Diabetic. Sigh.
 

@AloeSvea

Congratulations on your continuing progress! Yea You!

I re-read your piece above. I am beginning to have more respect for the folks at the Salk Institute only because they are research professionals helping people. Not paid for shills of big pharma. I think they are trying to find a cure for T2D. As for my ribs I to do see them these days.

I had a hamburger yesterday, with all the good stuff but no bread. It was yummy then a bike ride afterwards. Alas here in the land of the free too many are eating too many grains and getting BMI's of 30+ I spoke to one guy (at the same hamburger restaurant) who was there with a party of 5 and told him of my T2 condition so that he might warn his sister (her BMI was 30+). I hope she takes the message I sent to heart.. I still get wicked neuropathy from time to time..

As for Salk (& their restricted eating ideas) I am having coffee in the morning and usually have food beginning around 11 to 11.30. I weighed 14St 31/2 lbs. yesterday morning. Down from 18 stones at the worst level.
 

Many thanks - and right back at ya!

I know what you mean about wanting to give warnings. Since my own diagnosis I have felt an overwhelming desire to spread the word! Once I was hanging out at the cafe where my son works, back in my home country, and every time someone came in with my higher risk ethnicity (the risk is three times higher than it is for folk with just European ancestry) and ordered a coke or some kind of yummy sausage roll or baked good, crisps, chocolate (sigh! I will always feel the pull of those foods) - I wanted to say 'No No No! Don't do it! Get yourself checked out! Know how your insulin sensitivity is working before you eat those high lactose milk products, trans fats, sugars, and addictive additives....!!!' instead, of course, I just watched myself watching others, and wondering about the role of diabetes education in day to day life . (Obviously - unasked for education is not appropriate with strangers in a cafe! lol) (At least not in my home country - if you give unwanted bodily advice to the wrong person in the wrong mood you could find yourself with a black eye lol. And rightly so perhaps!)

What I did do is wrote up an information sheet on getting healthy when at risk or with prediabetes - getting one's blood glucose/insulin system working better or properly again, and gave it out as what I thought as a big gift to my friends and family who were at risk, or prediabetic, because I had learnt the really hard way. I think, fear, even that may have been going too far - apart from my adult kids who are used to me and my sticky beak, and they know where it is coming from. But never heard a word from my prediabetic or at risk pals and loved ones. Who, really, wants someone with T2D telling you to eat less processed foods and move more because you're at risk yourself?! Human nature not to want to deal with it unless you have to, perhaps. (And there is no polite way to refer to belly fat! lol. The best I did, is talk about my own belly fat issues, and let it rest there. My loved ones can see their own adipose in the mirror, without me referring to it, lol, directly. I just pointed out how dangerous it is and why.)

BTW - by at risk I mean seriously at risk! ie with parent/s who had T2D, or whose parents had even died at what we would definitely consider too early, from T2D complications. Scary stuff.
 
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