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Newcastle Diet - updated methodology?

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by AlexMagd, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I'm about to embark on the Newcastle Diet, but was wondering if anyone knows of any changes that have resulted from the Direct study results? e.g. in one of the BBC News article I read, the participant was referring to "4 shakes a day" rather than the "3 plus 200cal veggies" that we're all familiar with. Does anyone know how the methodology changed in this study, and which one was showing the most success?

    For instance they discuss putting some patients on the Counterweight-Plus programme, which as far as I can tell is a 3 month programme with 4 shakes a day... obviously a bit different from the traditional ND!

    Any insight anyone can offer greatly appreciated!
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  3. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    hmmm ... slightly misleading use of statistics for the uninitiated maybe..
     
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  5. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    True.
    worked 100% for me !
     
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  6. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    It was more all the protocol documents and leaflets in one place.

    It wouldn't be my approach of choice, as the shakes would likely bore me rigid, but for those who find that easier than choosing what to eat on a day to day basis, I respect them for giving it a go.

    I think it's excellent and important that people have options in therms of their approach. One thing we do know about this Diabetes malarkey and that's that one size doesn't fit all.
     
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    • Creative Creative x 2
  7. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Having diabetes wouldn't be my approach of choice.

    I can't say the shakes provided a varied diet, but two months of not choosing food that didn't cure the diabetes didn't seem a sacrifice.
    I'm not saying don't pick a different way.
    Maybe one day the Prof will show they work as well.
     
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  8. smudge75

    smudge75 Type 2 · Member

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    I'm into my week three on the Newcastle diet, just want to wish you well in you starting. The first week was the hardest and I am doing three shakes and vegetables, sometimes I do think would it be easier to do all shakes. As much as I enjoy the veg it makes me want meat with it lol. Also if you are only doing shakes make sure you get some oil into you to help bowel movements. Cause when doing the veg you can add the fats there .
     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Completely agree but I think there has been a lot of "puff" about the ND and its alleged successes. I'd really like to see all the data from the last trial made public such as individual HbA1c levels for individual participants (anonymised of course) just to see how much below 48 mmol/m they managed to go as this was their criteria for "reversed". Also how the 6 members in the control group managed to "reverse" their type 2 without the severe caloric restriction. I doubt we will ever know..
     
  10. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we'll ever care.
    It works, regardless.
    Maybe stick to your low carb forum, if you can't see low calorie working for you as an individual?

    Low calorie works really, really, well for us.
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    It "works" for some people ...nowhere near all, in fact probably less than half.
    You are one of the lucky ones.
    Do you eat whatever you want to without restriction of any kind?
    Are you taking any medication?
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I am actually providing some useful information to people wanting to ty it rather than simply saying "it worked for me" .
    I have read extensively on the subject and corresponded with Professor Taylor. I still have a number of concerns that it provides people with high expectations of a "cure" which, as there has to date been no long term follow up data published, my not in fact be the case.

    Lets see some support and evidence?
     
    #12 bulkbiker, Feb 26, 2018 at 11:17 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2018
  13. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    @jcbman - You are afforded the courtesy of posting your contra views on low carb areas of the forum, so please afford the same courtesy to those who feel this particular approach isn't for them.

    Should you feel any of those members are breaching forum rules, as found here: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/community-ethos-forum-rules.50278/ , then hitting the Report button is the way forward, not posting in a confrontational or combative manner.

    Thank you.
     
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  14. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Several posts have been edited or deleted in order to keep this thread on the topic in hand.
     
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  15. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, after completing the Newcastle diet, I eat whatever I want.

    For example, I have just have a Tassimo Oreo hot chocolate, as I have reversed my diabetes, and can eat and drink normally.

    I do not take medication.

    I believe it is worth sticking with the Newcastle diet, and the op has my support in this, and I hope my success will encourage them.

    I did the original diet.
     
    #15 jcbman, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:04 AM
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  16. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I believe in full disclosure of any protocol warts and all. For example LCHF / Keto for some raises LDL, and there may be some Keto flu initially as well as bad breath.

    With the ND diet it is important to note that Professor Roy Taylor states that after completion and hopefully losing circa 15 kg of the at diagnosed body weight it is necessary in the maintenance phase to do some exercise, and he goes on to say that food intake should be two thirds of what was previously eaten. I see this as a key point (around 37.5 minutes into his video )

    I would like to understand if this is due to either a lowering of the BMR, which often happens on low calorie diets or is this due to reducing in global terms the carb hit of a "normalised" diet. If it is the former this is disappointing, if it is the latter, then this is understandable, or perhaps there is another reason.

    Edit: BMR was misspelt as BAR (auto-correct)
     
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    #16 Mbaker, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:10 AM
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  17. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    The calories you require to maintain weight depend on what weight you are. The heavier you are, the more energy is needed to move your body around. If you lose weight (the rationale of the Newcastle diet), you will need less energy, i.e. fewer calories, to maintain your new, lower weight.
     
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  18. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of the weight / energy variations I often burn 15 calories per minute whilst working out for example.

    Whilst there will be variations I believe my wife who is an HCP of circa 25 years, with 2 health related degrees, practical experience as an elite athlete and of course patients. In addition I am referencing Professor Taylor with regards to what is required on the protocol he devised, presumably he has the most insight for generalisations. In general low calorie diets do drop BMR, so when persons go on multiple diets over the years metabolisms can be ruined.

    My BMR on OMAD since December has maintained at circa 2200 and my calorie burn average over the last week for example with exercise is 3200. It is important for those undertaking the ND to know the author of the protocol effectively warns of a slow down even with exercise - this is my interpretation of having to drop calories to two thirds, which would be somewhere inline with general low calorie dieting; whilst a generalisation this is factual.
     
    #18 Mbaker, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:12 AM
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  19. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a complicated few posts.

    Not entirely sure I understand, but basically you're asking why you need to eat less calories after losing weight?

    Dead simple, but I can see why people don't like the Newcastle now.

    I reckon it's cos the prof working with fat people.
    And I'll put my hand up to being fat.
    The jobs got easier, from handballing loads on and off, now the truck drives itself, I watch someone take my loads on and off. All I do is check it's strapped on safely.
    And as you say, exercise makes a massive amount of difference to what you need to eat.
    Exercise, you can eat more, sit down all day, you can't.

    So, to accept the Prof, you have to accept fat, and guess what, it's food that causes it.
    So, first thing you do is stop eating it.
    It works, but then you still have to accept if you eat the same amount as made you fat before, it'll make you fat again.
    So, he states don't eat as much when you finish.

    He doesn't need to guess metabolisms, he doesn't somehow warn that anything will happen, he just says don't eat as much, or you'll get fat again.

    Personally, I've found my sweet spot.
    And once you knock off all those snacks all day, I reckon I'm eating a lot less.
    No magic, I don't count, just if I get fatter, I eat less again, too much food makes you fat.
     
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  20. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I knew I'd seen this site somewhere (couldn't forget that snappy logo) but I couldn't find it yesterday. Will take a look at that :)

    I'm a little skeptical of the results too I have to say, though clearly it works very well for some people. I think really what it comes down to is how you define "works" - I know that Prof Taylor's criterion for success is an HbA1C at non-diabetic levels for a long period of time, but for those of us who (a) have already achieved that and (b) don't see the HbA1C as the be-all-and-end-all of tracking success in managing T2D that's cold comfort.

    For me, my concern with this:

    is that you could still be spiking uncontrollably after that. You can get a good average result but still be out of non-diabetic range for a good chunk of time. @jcbman , do you still test and if so, what kind of results do you get after eating something like that?

    End of the day, however, the ND seems like a win-win: even if I don't make any great strides in insulin sensitivity or further reversal I can reasonably expect to lose some more weight (and I have more to lose), further reduce my BG numbers, and improve my next test results. It might not be all it's sometimes alleged to be, but it can't hurt!
     
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