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Newly diagnosed type 2, could really use some help :/

Ka-Mon said:
I have personally tested many non-diabetics and some even after a "normal" portion of chips were still in the 7's even 2 hours after meals meaning that they definitely must have been at a higher spike after only one hour. Same as diabetics, non-diabetics are also not all the same and some will spike depending on the size of the meal they've eaten and the amount of movement/exercise undertaken.

The thing that differentiates a -non-diabetic to a diabetic is that under normal circumstances (ie: eating normal portions) the non-diabetics "spike" will fall within 2 hours post-meal but definitely not all of them as I found out personally, especially if they eat a large (ish) meal.
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Sorry to disagree (I think), KaMon. People who are still elevated above 7 or 8mmol after 2-3 hours are pretty much "prediabetic" by any medical Dr I've ever consulted out there on this topic or whose work I've ever read. Ask your own. I think they'll agree. Please don't attach links to 'blogs'. The only real worthwhile evidence on these topics are peer reviewed studies, test books and articles from Google Scholar. I have a very high standard for 'proof texts' on these sort of topics.

I too have personally tested non diabetic family members too of all ages. You and I got VERY different results. We did it at Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. Only reading over 7mmol at one hour was my older mother and she hit 8.1.. All readings, 5 people tested were back under 5.0 by the 2.5 hour mark. Of course you spread out eating at the holidays so I made sure I did my testing at a couple of hours after we'd finished the main meal and desserts. Of course these were the carbiest meals imaginable and we all ate WAY too much. I've also see the kind of Google charts as Sid just posted. But 'spiked' readings up and over 11 I have to believe are just not normal for the diabetic. It's not about what I 'believe', it's about reliable sources I read like: 'Anatomy and Physiology books, of which I have several and it's about what endocrinologists and GP's tell me and whose writings I've read.

Having said that I will acknowledge that there are enigmatic situations where an otherwise normal non diabetic person could jump way up - as in the case of a GLucose Tolerance Test with a high amount of orange juice taken in or in your example a certain very sweet drink. I think the point to take away from this is simply is that there's a very stark difference between the numbers of a diabetic and the numbers of non diabetic primarily due to beta mass loss and impaired First Phase Insulin response. A person who at two hours is still 'elevated' is, by defintion, at least a 'pre-diabetic'. No 'normal pacnreas' allows for the blood glucose level to stay above 7mmol or more for 2-3 hours.. Fat is in this equation -- but even for a very fatty meal the return to fasting levels would be achieved by 3-3.5 hours in a non-diabetic. It's not my intent to start a debate about this - at all. What Matt needs to know is that he should start slow and then set realistic goals for himself.

We'd all agree those goals - though they can be influenced by guidelines - are, in the end, personal choices. I SO respect that! :D
 
Testing is a matter of expense, I'm afraid, Grant, at least here in the UK.

As you'll have seen from some of the other threads, some of our Primary Care Trusts are withdrawing strips from Type 2s; some GPs think Type 2s don't need to test; others limit us to one pot of 50 strips per month, unless you have a cast-iron case for having more.

If we buy our own, from a high-street pharmacy they can cost as much as £25 for 50; at the moment thats about $38, I believe. A lot of money, unless you've got a good job. Some of the manufacturers will sell them direct for a bit more than half that.

Matt - the 'Advice for Newbies' that I think you've seen gives a good testing regime that works pretty well. Once you've identified the foods that spike you, and got a bit of confidence about it, you can reduce your testing if you feel like it. Don't feel confused! there is a lot to learn, but it's not really difficult. Don't be afraid to ask questions - we're all here to help! :lol:

Viv 8)
 
viviennem said:
Testing is a matter of expense, I'm afraid, Grant, at least here in the UK.

As you'll have seen from some of the other threads, some of our Primary Care Trusts are withdrawing strips from Type 2s; some GPs think Type 2s don't need to test; others limit us to one pot of 50 strips per month, unless you have a cast-iron case for having more.Viv 8)
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Thanks for the education about the state of things there, Viv. Very helpful! Wow -- T2's with NO meters at all is the goal??? Whew.. That makes me glad to live on this side of the ocean... :wink:
 
Oh, we have our advantages, Grant! My doctor gave me a chitty the other day, and I drove 30 miles to the nearest hospital the same day and had an X-ray done within 20 minutes of getting there - that's normal service.

Following the X-ray I've been referred to the orthopaedic surgeon, whom I shall be seeing in a week or so, and then getting a CT scan. if appropriate I'll be listed for surgery, probably in less than 2 months. And all for free!

Not every PCT is stopping strips, and not all doctors are the same in regard to test strips; it mostly depends on how well they understand diabetes. I do all right, but I try not to be extravagant with limited resources. Those of us who have diabetes, have to do our best to educate those who don't - starting with doctors! :lol:

Viv 8)
 
Hi Matt,
Yep !! its sure a deppressing thought ''diabetes'' if like me you did'nt know there were types, and only heard about people loosing toes , eyesight, etc, and are thinking , :( my god!. then think again, this site is wonderful and in its own way maybe a ''life saver'' , ask anything you want and these guys on here will give you the best advice they can ...oooops gals as well :D , they certainly helped me and now I am pretty stable . and except diabetes as part of my life , by the way I am 59yrs old , 5 heart attacks , stents and a 4xbypass, but still done a world trip 3 1/2 years on a motor bike, 42 k miles so pull yourself up , take some advice on here and live your life mate :) don't let this get you down
 
viviennem said:
Oh, we have our advantages, Grant.........

Following the X-ray I've been referred to the orthopaedic surgeon, whom I shall be seeing in a week or so, and then getting a CT scan. if appropriate I'll be listed for surgery, probably in less than 2 months. And all for free!
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For obvious reasons we won't get into THAT hornet's nest conversation... :lol:

Those of us who have diabetes, have to do our best to educate those who don't - starting with doctors! :lol:

Viv 8)
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That's sadly true in the US too, Viv..
 
Actually to be pendantic the actually meal raise is 2.8mmol/l not 2.7mmol/l if you check out any wizard that calculates an insulin dose, you will find that 2.8mmol/l is the lowest setting available!

As to the best time for test for a newbie,my personal thoughts are well it's going to be the 2 hour mark it is very likely a newly diagnosed diabetic is going to be running above normal range blood glucose, so they need to work getting the pre and post 2 hour meal BG's within the normal ranges then take a look at what the HbA1c's are saying if you have good pre and post meal BG but an higher than expected HbA1c, the it's obvious that you are spiking high somewhere along the line, which needs tracking down...

As to whether it's better health care wise this side of the pond or your side of the pond, belive me this side is actually better... We get health care which isn't marked on what health care insurance cover you can afford and when my PCT agreed to fund my insulin pump they fund it all, I don't have to pay a percentage of anything such as the insulin or the consumables! the only problem is every now and again I get a debate with my doctors practice prescription manager concerning how I can't control my diabetes with a pump on the 50 test strips she thinks I should and not the amount I say I need! but hey hole small price to pay..
 
jopar said:
As to whether it's better health care wise this side of the pond or your side of the pond, belive me this side is actually better... We get health care which isn't marked on what health care insurance cover you can afford and when my PCT agreed to fund my insulin pump they fund it all, I don't have to pay a percentage of anything such as the insulin or the consumables! the only problem is every now and again I get a debate with my doctors practice prescription manager concerning how I can't control my diabetes with a pump on the 50 test strips she thinks I should and not the amount I say I need! but hey hole small price to pay..
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Again, I won't take the bait on the comparison of the 2 health care systems. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

But as to test strips they're so cheap on the Internet. Can't people there just get more shipped in? Or are there tariffs, etc..? They don't require a scrip to order on the net.
 
NewdestinyX said:
I've also see the kind of Google charts as Sid just posted. But 'spiked' readings up and over 11 I have to believe are just not normal for the diabetic. It's not about what I 'believe', it's about reliable sources I read like: 'Anatomy and Physiology books, of which I have several and it's about what endocrinologists and GP's tell me and whose writings I've read.
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Here is another paper sent to me by someone last night.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/a55 ... ltext.html

Extract:
Results
We found that 93% of participants reached glucose concentrations above the IGT threshold of 7.8 mmol/l and spent a median of 26 min/day above this level during continuous glucose monitoring. Eight individuals (10%) spent more than 2 h in the IGT range. They had higher HbA1c, fasting plasma glucose (FPG), age and BMI than those who did not. Seven participants (9%) reached glucose concentrations above 11.1 mmol/l during monitoring.

Again clearly stating that non diabetics can and do spike and that 93% of participants hit higher levels than 7.8 mmol/L and that 9% hit levels above11.1 mmol/L.

Are you really going to keep on arguing your point even after being presented with these facts?

You may not choose to believe the facts but they are still the facts.
 
Hey, you guys, Matts a newbie. He actually asked for help. He didn't ask for dissertations, graphs and arguments between members. Just the basics PLEASE. You helped me that way, do it for Matt. :roll:
 
Poor Old OP wanted some basic help
The likes of what daisy gives out

Yet another thread hijacked :roll:

This is Like the battle of the Anorak

images
 
Sid Bonkers said:
NewdestinyX said:
I've also see the kind of Google charts as Sid just posted. But 'spiked' readings up and over 11 I have to believe are just not normal for the diabetic. It's not about what I 'believe', it's about reliable sources I read like: 'Anatomy and Physiology books, of which I have several and it's about what endocrinologists and GP's tell me and whose writings I've read.
Click to expand...

Here is another paper sent to me by someone last night.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/a55 ... ltext.html

Extract:
Results
We found that 93% of participants reached glucose concentrations above the IGT threshold of 7.8 mmol/l and spent a median of 26 min/day above this level during continuous glucose monitoring. Eight individuals (10%) spent more than 2 h in the IGT range. They had higher HbA1c, fasting plasma glucose (FPG), age and BMI than those who did not. Seven participants (9%) reached glucose concentrations above 11.1 mmol/l during monitoring.

Again clearly stating that non diabetics can and do spike and that 93% of participants hit higher levels than 7.8 mmol/L and that 9% hit levels above11.1 mmol/L.

Are you really going to keep on arguing your point even after being presented with these facts?

You may not choose to believe the facts but they are still the facts.
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Are you really going to keep saying that 'most' non diabetics hit these levels when even your own data states caveats like they were of 'higher BMI' than normal, etc.. Probably prediabetic by any medical standard out there. It is a 'fact', Sid, no matter how much 'caveat bearing data' you bring that 'normal blood glucose reaction is exactly as my chart shows it to be. I trapped myself in this argument a little (won't make that mistake again) by making the 'contrast' with that ever changing 'word' -diabetic versus NON diabetic. There's too much wiggle room there and you were right to 'drive a truck' through my imprecise argument.

Let me take a step back and reform my point.... NORMAL BLOOD GLUCOSE curves 'NEVER', for any substantive length of time, rise/spike above 7-8mmol in otherwise 'healthy people' at their proper BMI, unless 'pre-diabetes' is at hand. I just want Matt to know -- what to shoot for - eventually - which is 'NORMAL' numbers. I'm gonna steer clear of the word 'non-diabetic' here as it does 'contextualize' the argument with a fatal flaw - which is 'at what levels is one a diabetic'. Again, I won't make that mistake again. Thanks for sharpening my argument for me, Sid. Well done! Really. No sarcarsm there at all. My argument 'was weak' as stated originally.

NORMAL BLOOD GLUCOSE curves, in otherwise healthy people, don't 'regularly' peak-spike above 7.8mmol.
 
You can lead a horse to water but some people just wont see whats placed before them.

I give up you obviously just like ruining threads by arguing black is white and red is blue, well you can find someone else to argue with from now on and if you wish to continue giving false information to people that is up to you :roll:

Goodbye
ttfn.gif
 
NewdestinyX said:
... NORMAL BLOOD GLUCOSE curves 'NEVER', for any substantive length of time, rise/spike above 7-8mmol in otherwise 'healthy people' at their proper BMI, unless 'pre-diabetes' is at hand. ...
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You wrap your assertion in so many caveats that it is dangerously close to being a tautology: you may as well say that BG control is perfectly normal in people who have perfectly normal BG control.

Any chance you can take a hint and we can get back to supporting folks here? It is a support forum NOT a debating society. Or are you really that desperate to "win points" and always have the last word?
 
I am going for two weeks holidays on Friday, thanks God. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
you kids shouldn't play so rough!

I'm happy to read all the arguments - play nice!

As to the original poster - I think in general you should get the point that keeping blood levels between 4 and 7 is good and that diet will have a big impact on this. Regarding the fuzziness etc (and the depression) it may seem simplistic but exercise has had a huge impact for me on combating both. I'm not saying it's a panacea for all ills but in terms of contributing i have felt way better (and lost 16lbs) from doing about an hour a day walking and/or swimming since I was diagnosed. Any aerobic exercise will do - rejoice oh young man in thy youth!
 
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