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Nhs bill and forthcoming privatisation of nhs

noblehead said:
My fear is that when they do take control of the NHS budget..... will the best interests of the patients be put first? After all they will be paying for the drugs, diagnostic testing, treatment and admission to and during hospital stays, will we see more people being turned away when asking for blood tests for suspected illnesses/conditions and deficiencies?
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I completely agree. I thought that was the original reason a while back to make the NICE guidelines mandatory so it would make what you are saying difficult for a gp or practice to do. I think that aspect has fallen by the wayside? If they brought that proposal back I would be a lot happier.
 
According to my GP the new changes will start to take place from April this year.

My GP is somewhat worried about everything and said that someone with a potential life threatening illness may have to go to hospital A for one test, then hospital B for another test, then hospital C and then for all the hospitals concerned to start talking to each other while the GP commission group starts to get the best treatment at the cheapest price.........This is obviously going to cause delay in giving someone the vital treatment that they may need in order to save their life.

Competition over drug pricing is good but competition over services that hospitals offer relating to the cost is not good.

I'm determined with my partner to try our best to look after our health so that we dont need to visit our GP too often and I think others should also try to do the same............
 
The NHS will last as long as there are folks left with the faith to fight for it........ Aneurin Bevan.

Some good points made here.
http://nhsvault.blogspot.com/2012/03/nhs-activism.html
http://nhsvault.blogspot.com/2012/02/re ... burns.html

My surgery is already canvassing for lay people to join a Patient Participation Group, open to anyone who uses the surgery as mentioned in the first article.

Successive governments have chipped away at trying to improve the NHS and Private Funding Initatives was a bad move that is now being shown with Trusts owing the Private Sector loads of high interest cash IMHO. Some Hospitals owe so much money to the Private Sector that they cannot get out of the red. They used the money to improve existing Hospitals and build new ones and now some Hospitals fear closure because of the debt.
 
xyzzy said:
al_leister said:
OECD figures show that healthcare in the US costs $7,500 per person per year. The OECD average is $4,500. In the UK it costs...
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Yeah, yeah. If the private sector is so bad (that's also people like me who work **** hard and run small business') why don't you just stop using it and put your words into actions. Close your bank account, don't buy that new whatever product, grow your own food rather than use the supermarket, walk everywhere or go live in some commune or communist paradise.

It's exactly this kind of irrational political dogma that causes so much grief in the world whether its you and your anti capitalist clap trap or the right with their xenophobia and other bulls**t views. What the average person wants is just a health service that works and while its pulled pillar to post between opposing political **** it's never going to happen.
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*********************************
My my, I feel a little faint. The private sector is not so bad. Shame on you!
I have “run” a small business/worked in the private sector most of my little life.
Innovation springs from the middle classes.
I shall not close my bank account and I intend on purchasing a new pair of slacks this Saturday. Will be out on the rip that night.
I have had a little success with the home grown tomatoes. Rather tasty.
Christ! A commune? Wouldn’t get enough peace to read I suspect. And I refuse to share my red wine. Well, maybe a small glass. Go on then.

The average person, unfortunately, will not get what they want (just a health service that works) rather the offer of a product from providers that they will never be able to afford.

USA. I rest my briefcase. 8)
 
Some very good and non knee jerk comments from Dillinger. I think we will only know whether the changes are going to work after the event, it may be too late by then but realistically I do believe that GP's have the best interests of their patients at heart, they may not always get it right of course (Nigel) but thats another problem that is on going.

GP led services are already being trialled in my area, in fact my wife is involved in a secretarial capacity with a Rapid Access Unit which sees patients with signs of cardiac problems within 14 days and gives them a complete cardiac MOT and service and deals with any problems quickly depending on the seriousness of the problem. This saves critical heart patients having to wait the up to 18 weeks to see a consultant and then be referred for angiograms (sp) etc. And the service is totally funded by the GP's within the Trusts area.

The alternative is a private angiogram which costs currently upwards of £2500 and thats just for the angiogram if you require stents or some other treatment then the price obviously increases accordingly.

I imagine that this is the way the Con /libs see the future, will it work, I dont know, but I am more worried now than I have been for some time about the NHS's future if only because its skint! If it were a private company it would be bankrupt now already.
 
A very personal view on the subject, written by somebody close to me:

http://soylentdave.com/2012/03/how-the-nhs-saved-my-mum/

I've seen Americans, on forums and on their blogs, worrying about the cost of medical treatment. One guy felt awful because his Dad was in a coma and after a few months the insurance cover was starting to reach its limit. He wrestled with the guilt of wanting his dad to die before the money ran out.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
but I am more worried now than I have been for some time about the NHS's future if only because its skint! If it were a private company it would be bankrupt now already.
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Here's an idea. Get the NHS to do one big exclusive deal with say Staples but in the contract stipulate that it will only pay Staples RETAIL prices for things. The NHS would save a fortune and Staples wouldn't be able to rip the NHS off because raising its retail prices would effect its pricing for everyone else.

Why do I say that? Well a friend who is in a volunteer group for a local mental health day centre needed to get a filing cabinet for the day centres use. They could buy one for £29.99 from Staples but Staples weren't an approved supplier so they had to get one from an approved supplier. Same filing cabinet as Staples would have supplied turned up cost £179.99. Absolute madness and a total waste of our money.
 
Putting power to GPs?! And who exactly in the GP surgery will now have to be burdened with all the procurement and admin involved in having to negotiate their own deals. I dont think i want my GP spending his time signing tenders and contracts - I'd rather see him diagnosing illnesses which is what he spent all his time training to do. It also means that instead of larger call-off contracts in place for drugs we'll have these smaller surgeries buying smaller quantities at higher prices. Crazy !
 
Riri said:
who exactly in the GP surgery will now have to be burdened with all the procurement and admin involved in having to negotiate their own deals.
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I suspect they will do a far better job than the ones who negotiated buying the filling cabinets in my previous post. :wave:
 
Oh dear. What a predicament. :crazy:
Well it doesn't sounds like we've got much chance of avoiding whatever will happen. Whatever they decide to happen will happen, and I agree the best thing we can do is to look after ourselves the best we can so that in the future when medication is unaffordable and GP's to busy to see us through admin work, we hopefully wont need it too often!!!
Sounds like getting an Insulin pumps out of the question unless I do something quick - cant see them paying for one of them out of their own pockets!! :problem:
 
The guardian views make very interesting reading (page 2 link). I will go on to read all the comments but one valid comments amongst many so far :-
'Our concern is that there will be a renewed emphasis on the "faster and cheaper is better" approach in the NHS. Healthcare managers lose sight of patients when they are faced with the need to save money and meet targets.'

So it's profits first, patients seconds. For me it's not about the party politics any more, it's simply about saving the NHS. I have to say personally i find the reference to the filing cabinets rather trivialising the issue when we're talking about such an important matter as people's health and future treatments we may or may not get if this bill gets through.
 
Not trivial at all. Multiply alll that waste up and look at all the drugs, beds, doctors, nurses, training, research etc that could be paid for. All you are doing is pushing the same political dogma I've been complaining about in all my posts. Like I said the average person just wants a health service that works well and efficiently and is free to use. If that got delivered by whatever mechanism people wouldn't give one iota if it was state or privately run they would just be pleased it delivered the care they needed so how it gets delivered is of very little importance to them. Its just you political types with your vested interests that seem to think how its delivered to be more important than how well it operates.
 
Thanks xyzzy - you really seem to want to make this debate get very personal with me for some reason.
Well if you read my posts again they are all about wanting to save the NHS and yes, I make no apologies for wanting it to remain free to everyone, after all most of us have worked hard through our lives and paid all our NI contributions. It's a shame that your comments are allowed because I have not pushed political dogma - all I have said is that I totall disagree with this particular bill that this government is tryng to get theough.
Freedom of speech - is that only for some people in your books as well?
 
Riri said:
Thanks xyzzy - you really seem to want to make this debate get very personal with me for some reason.
Well if you read my posts again they are all about wanting to save the NHS and yes, I make no apologies for wanting it to remain free to everyone, after all most of us have worked hard through our lives and paid all our NI contributions. It's a shame that your comments are allowed because I have not pushed political dogma - all I have said is that I totall disagree with this particular bill that this government is tryng to get theough.
Freedom of speech - is that only for some people in your books as well?
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Firstly Riri you made it personal in your previous post by saying your thought my comment about NHS waste was flippant.Perhaps you want to re read my first post to see how seriously i take the issues that are raised by the NHS

Next if you read my posts carefully you will see that at no point do I say I agree with the bill either.I dont but not because of any ideological standpoint but for similar reasons that noblehead and sid mentioned.

Next at all times Ive clearly stated that I believe the nhs should be free for everyone regardless of class or wealth. Ive just pointed out that there maybe other ways of delivering that other than through some state run inneficient monster. I have no idea if that's possible but it seems worth investigating to me.

What I object to is that because of politics no one is allowed to have a rational debate about what's wrong with the NHS. As soon as anyone tries "the left" start emotively confusing the issue with their constant privatisation claims. The same thing happens with any kind of rational debate about Europe "the right" simply plays their "Little Englander Land of hope and glory" rubbish. Nothing ever gets resolved properly because of it and worse of all of those in the political classes don't give a **** because to them its just a power battle and actual outcomes are secondary.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
The alternative is a private angiogram which costs currently upwards of £2500 and thats just for the angiogram if you require stents or some other treatment then the price obviously increases accordingly.
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Sid,

You want to move up north......cost of a private angiogram round here is £650.00. :)
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... CSOCEML657

Britain's hospital doctors want the coalition's controversial NHS shakeup to be scrapped, with many fearing it will lead to health services being privatised, a poll has revealed.

Almost seven in 10 members of the Royal College of Physicians (RCP), which represents hospital doctors, want the health and social care bill withdrawn.
................................................................

So, is there any chance the gov will listen to the proffesionals and the people ?
Not a sweat of it!
Their pals are queuing up with pockets stuffed with golden nuggets ready for the next big money-making-scheme. And it is “the pals” who control government regardless of the colour of tie.

Wouldn’t be so alarming if it was a baked bean factory.
Charge what you like for your baked beans.
People can live without them and diabetics should avoid them.
 
If people want to take action about this, you might want to consider signing up to '38 degrees'. They regularly run campaigns against controversial government decisions via online petitions, and more recently a billboard ad campaign that directly addressed David Cameron, with the backing of medical staff, over the NHS reforms.

They're a great organisation and have had quite a few 'wins' against the tories, including a u-turn on the selling off of UK forests.

Here's a link to their website:

http://www.38degrees.org.uk/
 
Already have :D .
:clap:
 
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