NHS Dietitian Contradicting Himself

Rachox said:

I posted this further up in this thread “.... fat shaming anyone is so unfair. I was an obese nurse until retirement in 2016 and believe I did a good job despite my weight, plus I probably was more empathetic to obese patients. Working for the NHS is stressful and with irregular shifts, it’s all too easy to have irregular eating and sleeping patterns and also to comfort eat. Who knows if my diabetes diagnosis was as a result of this, but having struggled to lose weight during my nursing career I now realise that this was probably due to my diabetes gradually developing. Who knows how many other obese health care professionals will end up on this forum?”

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Hang on. I am not fat shaming anybody..Where did you get that Idea from? Why do some people on here take things out of context? My point is when Doctors or Nurses are giving out advice to patients about their diet to lose weight,then for the patient to see the medical staff eating pies and chips or sausage rolls and crisps etc, when there are plenty of healthy option in the hospital restaurant,and there were. How the hell can the medical staff be taken seriously over their advice?

AdamJames said:

I was just about to quote your original post!

I was going to say "well said". My mum worked in the caring services all her life - hospitals, social services, Mencap etc. She has Type 2, and, up until getting very ill a year ago, was overweight for most of that time.

I also noticed last year when I was at hospital, that a significant majority of the staff there had lots of body fat in spite apparently spending all day on their feet.

I couldn't help feel that I'd much rather be sharing my planet with them, than the skinny scumbag family being aggressive in A&E as I left.



The only people who deserve shaming are people who consciously decide to harm or harass other people.

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What has the hell has sharing a planet with aggressive people that are skinny got to do with my post?. What is all this about shaming?.

derry60 said:

When I have gone for an appointment at the hospital. I usually after my appointment go to the hospital restaurant and have a cup of coffee. I was absolutely shocked to see the nurses and doctors eating chips, crisps, pies etc. My appointment was nothing to do with diabetes as I am pre-diabetic or not sure if I am now with my numbers, because of eating low carb, but these people should be setting an example. Many are overweight themselves

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derry60 said:

Hang on. I am not fat shaming anybody..Where did you get that Idea from? Why do some people on here take things out of context? My point is when Doctors or Nurses are giving out advice to patients about their diet to lose weight,then for the patient to see the medical staff eating pies and chips or sausage rolls and crisps etc, when there are plenty of healthy option in the hospital restaurant,and there were. How the hell can the medical staff be taken seriously over their advice?

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My comment was prompted by the last sentence of this first point of yours which I have quoted here “many are overweight themselves”, that’s fat shaming in my opinion.
I’m just sad that people can sit in judgement of others from afar. You don’t know what these professionals are going through, have they just had to tell someone they are dying and are just having some comfort food? Have they just worked a 13 hr shift with no meal breaks and a salad just doesn’t cut it? Do they habitually crave carbs because like me, they are developing diabetes but don’t know it yet?
As I said this is just my opinion so I think we’ll just have to agree to differ.

My doctor is over weight that is a statement of fact no judgment implied.

JohnEGreen said:

My doctor is over weight that is a statement of fact no judgment implied.

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I agree that when the substance of your statement is the fact that your Dr is over weight it’s ok. I was objecting to the fact that Derry was talking about diet and added the bit “many are overweight themselves” almost as an afterthought and not necessary to the body of the post. As I say just my opinion.

Bluetit1802 said:

I wonder if his normal clientele are T1s on insulin? In which case they have to carb count in order to calculate dosage. ? Just a thought.

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Actually T1s are told you eat what you like as long as you dose for it! so I am sure you are right with regards to the Carbs and Cals book. I do not think that is right though. It is nearly impossible to dose insulin accurately against carbs and most type 1 s do not achieve an HBA1c of 6.5!
The Carbs and Cals book is great but is full of very high carb foods albeit very typical of a standard UK diet but not one I'd say was any good for any kind of diabetic.
My endocrinologist diabetes consultant told me that whilst my heart would be fine on a high fat diet, I would definitely get fat because fat has double the calories of carb!

derry60 said:

What has the hell has sharing a planet with aggressive people that are skinny got to do with my post?. What is all this about shaming?.

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I wasn't referring to any of your posts. I had quoted Rachox and was responding to her. It may be that because Rachox's post which I quoted included a quote from one of your posts, the forum software has told you that I had responded to one of your posts.

NicoleC1971 said:

My endocrinologist diabetes consultant told me that whilst my heart would be fine on a high fat diet, I would definitely get fat because fat has double the calories of carb!

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I think they wrongfully assume you’d be eating the same amount of food gram for gram - we all know carb and protein in 5 calories a gram and fat 9, but I can’t eat the same weight of fat as I could the other two. 2 tablespoons butter is my limit!

Re some of the heated posts about fatness and doctors being fat...

Personally I don't think doctors have an obligation to "set an example". They have an obligation to do their job. If a doctor is fat, and tells patients that being fat increases their chances of poor health, that does not make the doctor a hypocrite. It makes them a human being.

Also, we all know, and science backs this up fully, that life is not a level playing field on practically anything we can measure about human biology. Being fat, and appetite, are very much included in this.

One person resisting a plate of pie and chips is not exercising the same willpower as another person resisting a plate of pie and chips. If we just accepted what people tell us about their appetites, we already know this is true. But even if we don't believe people, science helps us out, as we now know about things like the hunger hormone ghrelin. People have radically different levels of this. Just look at the poor sods in the 'Biggest Loser' study.

Generally speaking, people do what they want to do. They eat what they *want*, they eat as much of it as they *want*, and they exercise as much as they *want*.

Smugness and judgmentalism are never justified. Most people don't *want* to eat a bag of 5 doughnuts with a cup of tea. They actually say things like "if I have more than one, I'm hyper all day". Me, if I eat 5 doughnuts, I start to feel mildly satisfied, and my brain starts to work really well. The person who only *wants* to eat one doughnut has no business telling me that my willpower is worse than theirs. They haven't exercised any willpower at all.

Conversely, I *want* to be out walking all the time in the mountains, and so, by doing what I want, I can say that I get a lot of exercise. But that doesn't give me the right to tell a fat person who wants to sit down reading books all day that they need to do more exercise and they lack willpower. I'm not exercising any willpower at all when I'm out walking.

Doctors have no obligation to be thin or to eat the "right" foods. We don't know what it takes for each individual doctor to be thin. Not only that, but plenty of doctors who eat the "wrong" foods will be thin and live a long and healthy life, because not only is appetite not a level playing field, but how our bodies can cope with certain foods is also not a level playing field.

I quite liked the fact that most of the staff in the hospital had lots of body fat. It made me feel a normal person. And I am a normal person who happens to be struggling with weight.

Perhaps it would help if people became aware of how many judgements they casually perpetuate.

I mean, no one thinks it relevant to mention age, hair or eye colour when they talk about health care professionals, do they? Very tall? Petite? Big feet? Interesting makeup?

Some people like to casually drop in race and accent, and then claim ‘i’m Not prejudiced, but...’

And then others think that it is OK to snipe about size, weight and food choices, without even recognising that their comments are unacceptable.

It just demonstrates where we are, as a culture. ‘fat shaming’ is more socially acceptable than rascism, and most people don’t even realise when they are doing it.

People seem to think that they can comment, loudly, about people’s size and diet, without knowing the full story, or trying to empathise with the life and health history of their target. Then they take offence when someone points out this prejudice. Almost as if it is better to carry on offending, than to have the offence pointed out. Very odd.

If I could just post @AdamJames's and @Brunneria's brilliant and absolutely spot-on posts on websites like the Mail Online and any other place where fat shaming takes place, perhaps it would stop. I know that's an over-optimistic view.... I am particularly taken by @AdamJames's view on willpower - I've never seen it put like that and it is so very true.

Brunneria said:

Perhaps it would help if people became aware of how many judgements they casually perpetuate.

I mean, no one thinks it relevant to mention age, hair or eye colour when they talk about health care professionals, do they? Very tall? Petite? Big feet? Interesting makeup?

Some people like to casually drop in race and accent, and then claim ‘i’m Not prejudiced, but...’

And then others think that it is OK to snipe about size, weight and food choices, without even recognising that their comments are unacceptable.

It just demonstrates where we are, as a culture. ‘fat shaming’ is more socially acceptable than rascism, and most people don’t even realise when they are doing it.

People seem to think that they can comment, loudly, about people’s size and diet, without knowing the full story, or trying to empathise with the life and health history of their target. Then they take offence when someone points out this prejudice. Almost as if it is better to carry on offending, than to have the offence pointed out. Very odd.

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I think it gets interesting when someone uses their fat-shaming prejudice to try to form arguments, such as: "This person is fat because of their choices, so why should they receive medical care? I stay thin and look after myself, so I deserve medical care."

This "argument" fails on many levels I think, such as:

* It overlooks the fact that two people can make the same choices and arrive at very different body weights.

* It overlooks the fact that a fat person can need much less medical care than a thin person - health is very much a lottery.

* It doesn't even touch the surface if you actually are trying to judge people fairly. Particularly considerations such as willpower - one person, via their biology, mental well being, upbringing or immediate circumstances, may need to exercise so much willpower in order to be thin, that they have to live a miserable life avoiding things they like, while another person gets lucky, and all the things they like just happen to be healthy.

The whole "fat people shouldn't get medical care" belief can quickly be revealed to be just plain nasty prejudice when you consider that the same people who believe that, would never, ever say that someone involved in a crash in a car should be excluded from medical care on the grounds that they chose to drive. Even though, by choosing to drive, they knowingly hugely increased the risk to themselves and those around them. But apparently that's okay, so long as you are thin and "look good" in their eyes.

I agree.
I have issues when people make sporting 'lifestyle choices', which result in hip and knee replacements, broken bones, ligament injuries, etc. They expect to be treated on the NHS. And they ARE treated on the NHS.
Can you imagine how indignant they would be if they were told 'it is all your fault, we aren't interested in helping you.'

Yet people who struggle with their weight and appetite all their lives are sneered at and accused of wasting public money.

I wholeheartedly agree with the last 5 posts.

Brunneria said:

Perhaps it would help if people became aware of how many judgements they casually perpetuate.

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I am afraid I recently judged a few people myself, it's so easy to do. I was a fatty at bone density clinic. The other women were skinny, and the thought entered my head 'serves them right for trying to be so thin just to look good' . It only took a minute for me to realise that these people had probably never tried to lose weight at all and were victims of their genes etc just like I am. They aren't normally shamed for their looks, so maybe I was a teeny bit jealous. Anyhow, rapped knuckles for me, lesson learnt. It's good to know that obesity can help protect your bones though.

Brunneria said:

Perhaps it would help if people became aware of how many judgements they casually perpetuate.

I mean, no one thinks it relevant to mention age, hair or eye colour when they talk about health care professionals, do they? Very tall? Petite? Big feet? Interesting makeup?

Some people like to casually drop in race and accent, and then claim ‘i’m Not prejudiced, but...’

And then others think that it is OK to snipe about size, weight and food choices, without even recognising that their comments are unacceptable.

It just demonstrates where we are, as a culture. ‘fat shaming’ is more socially acceptable than rascism, and most people don’t even realise when they are doing it.

People seem to think that they can comment, loudly, about people’s size and diet, without knowing the full story, or trying to empathise with the life and health history of their target. Then they take offence when someone points out this prejudice. Almost as if it is better to carry on offending, than to have the offence pointed out. Very odd.

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I think a similar thing occurs occoasionally, even on here, about the state of a persons mental health and their needs. There is sometimes a comment or two about how mentally ill one has to be viewed as, in order to deserve treatment.

zand said:

It's good to know that obesity can help protect your bones though.

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I didnt know that - its good to know a positive.

an yes, I have my judgmental moments, far too often, and I have to challenge the voice in my head coming out with this stuff.

Brunneria said:

I agree.
I have issues when people make sporting 'lifestyle choices', which result in hip and knee replacements, broken bones, ligament injuries, etc. They expect to be treated on the NHS. And they ARE treated on the NHS.
Can you imagine how indignant they would be if they were told 'it is all your fault, we aren't interested in helping you.'

Yet people who struggle with their weight and appetite all their lives are sneered at and accused of wasting public money.

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Good point about the fact that the lifestyle choices that are perceived as healthy actually often increase the risk of someone needing other types of medical care! It really is a lottery.

Most judgmentalism boils down to "I haven't really thought things through, I just don't like it when other people do things differently to me."

zand said:

I wholeheartedly agree with the last 5 posts.

I am afraid I recently judged a few people myself, it's so easy to do. I was a fatty at bone density clinic. The other women were skinny, and the thought entered my head 'serves them right for trying to be so thin just to look good' . It only took a minute for me to realise that these people had probably never tried to lose weight at all and were victims of their genes etc just like I am. They aren't normally shamed for their looks, so maybe I was a teeny bit jealous. Anyhow, rapped knuckles for me, lesson learnt. It's good to know that obesity can help protect your bones though.

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Good point. Whenever I get annoyed by a certain type of human behaviour, I always try to remember that the first place I'm likely to find it is in myself. And that's also the only place where you stand any real chance of making a change.

AdamJames said:

I wasn't referring to any of your posts. I had quoted Rachox and was responding to her. It may be that because Rachox's post which I quoted included a quote from one of your posts, the forum software has told you that I had responded to one of your posts.

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Then please accept my apologies. x

Rachox said:

My comment was prompted by the last sentence of this first point of yours which I have quoted here “many are overweight themselves”, that’s fat shaming in my opinion.
I’m just sad that people can sit in judgement of others from afar. You don’t know what these professionals are going through, have they just had to tell someone they are dying and are just having some comfort food? Have they just worked a 13 hr shift with no meal breaks and a salad just doesn’t cut it? Do they habitually crave carbs because like me, they are developing diabetes but don’t know it yet?
As I said this is just my opinion so I think we’ll just have to agree to differ.

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Excuse me, I know exactly what these professionals are going through. This has nothing to do with my post. I have been overweight myself, but I find it rather difficult to be told to eat this or that to lose weight and given advise or looked down upon by doctors who are overweight themselves when I have followed their advice and gained weight What part do you not understand? I am not fat shaming at all, but I have found doctors who have fat shamed me and have seen them eating rubbish food to which they have told me to avoid (I have never eaten rubbish food just diet food, which made me gain weight) I was merely making the point that these doctors are giving advice and eating the wrong foods themselves and have gained weight. I have been under the hospital for 14 years so please do not assume that I do not know what doctors and nurses are going through. Many people work 13 hours shifts, fire crew, Police Officers, Army..Not just doctors and nurses